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kennethcadwell · Mar 16, 2015

I will once again show you James 5 and break it down to you again because James says they are brethren in the faith who turn away from the Truth, and the Truth is the Lord. It nowhere says what you are saying that they never experienced it;

James 5:19-20

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Now lets break down what James is saying here;

1) Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth

James is saying here that if any of our fellow brothers and sisters turns away from the faith back to a sinful lifestyle....

2) Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

James here is saying if we turn that brother or sister from their sinful ways back to the Lord we will save their soul from the second death in the lake of fire.......

3) cover a multitude of sins.

By showing love to another and turning them back to the Lord, will lead them to repent of those sinful ways they turned to and receive remission for them and therefore covered by the Lords blood.

kennethcadwell · Mar 16, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

James 3:10-13

10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

mailmandan · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

The other two arguments are the wanderer is either a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored. For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death"; (Revelation 21:8) for the latter, it is "physical death" (1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

*Notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, so he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us.. Also, 1 John 3:9 says that no one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. So how can one practice sin and lose their salvation if they are born of God, do not practice sin and cannot?

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do you know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7). "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit." In 1 Corinthians 5:5, we read - I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, (physical death) so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (no second death).

IF these "sinners" were never saved to begin with. Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

KJV1611 · Mar 17, 2015

James 5:19-20King James Version (KJV)

19*Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Brothers if any of you do err from truth, and one CONVERT him... the one who erred from the truth was never converted.

Kenneth, the bible you quoted from is a false bible... false bibles will always point works instead of grace.

Viligant_Warrior · Mar 17, 2015

KJV1611 said:

If you wish to start a "KJV Only" thread, feel free to do so. Please don't drag that argument into every thread in which you post. One brother to another. Thanks, and God bless.

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

I will once again show you James 5 and break it down to you again because James says they are brethren in the faith who turn away from the Truth, and the Truth is the Lord. It nowhere says what you are saying that they never experienced it;

James 5:19-20

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Now lets break down what James is saying here;

1) Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth

James is saying here that if any of our fellow brothers and sisters turns away from the faith back to a sinful lifestyle....

2) Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

James here is saying if we turn that brother or sister from their sinful ways back to the Lord we will save their soul from the second death in the lake of fire.......

3) cover a multitude of sins.

By showing love to another and turning them back to the Lord, will lead them to repent of those sinful ways they turned to and receive remission for them and therefore covered by the Lords blood.

Par for the course.....where are the words (the second) found in the James text that you have added.....You know...Satan ADDED to the word in the garden to get his false teaching as well.........you seem to do this on a regular basis....!

KenAllan · Mar 17, 2015

The Holy Spirit does teach you can lose your Salvation, but the Holy Spirit also says that once you have lost it you can never receive Salvation again. Once its gone its gone for good and you can never receive Salvation ever again.

Hebrews 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.

Its impossible to receive Salvation again once you have lost it!

KJV1611 · Mar 17, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Thanks and God bless you... In the future i will make sure I run everything by you before I post it.

pem · Mar 17, 2015

KenAllan said:

The Holy Spirit does teach you can lose your Salvation, but the Holy Spirit also says that once you have lost it you can never receive Salvation again. Once its gone its gone for good and you can never receive Salvation ever again.

Hebrews 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame.

Its impossible to receive Salvation again once you have lost it!

Hi Ken , sorry but your exegesis on Hebrews 6:4-6 is faulty. Try this
Hebrews 6:3-6

pem · Mar 17, 2015

KJV1611 said:

lol lol VW uses the NASB which further displays his lack of knowledge and discernment

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

mailmandan said:

The other two arguments are the wanderer is either a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored. For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death"; (Revelation 21:8) for the latter, it is "physical death" (1 Corinthians 5:1-5; 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

*Notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, so he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us.. Also, 1 John 3:9 says that no one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. So how can one practice sin and lose their salvation if they are born of God, do not practice sin and cannot?

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do you know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7). "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit." In 1 Corinthians 5:5, we read - I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, (physical death) so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (no second death).

IF these "sinners" were never saved to begin with. Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

The first problem with that type of debate about what James is saying, is that James multiple times clearly says they are brethren in the faith of salvation through Christ.
Then the second thing is how do we know that this scripture is speaking of the second death in the lake of fire ? Because James here clearly says you will save their soul from death. Physical death in the flesh only kills the body, and the only person who can destroy the soul is God when He sends it to the lake of fire.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

dcontroversal said:

I am not adding in my commentary as I am just showing the context that is coming from that scripture.
Apostle James is clearly saying you will save their soul from death, and the scriptures especially by the Lord Himself says that man can not destroy the soul. The only person who can destroy the soul is God Himself, and He does this when He sends those disobedient or unbelievers to the lake of fire.

See Matthew 10:28 and my post #751.............................

Physical death in the flesh only kills the body, and not the soul as this is what James is saying will be destroyed if they do not turn back from their sins to the Lord.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

KJV1611 said:

Well this is not a KJV only thread, but the version I used is from the NKJV that fixed some of the translation errors from the original KJV. So no I am not using a false version, as one must look at context.
You can not error from the the truth if you never were apart of the truth to begin with. In other words you can error from something you were never taught to begin with. James clearly calls the brethren he is talking to brethren in the faith.

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

You do understand that the James who wrote James was the half brother of Jesus and did not believe until after the resurrection right? And was not identified with the APOSTLES.....

Second, You can slice and dice all you want.....YOU added the words (the second) to the James text and in so doing did the same thing Satan did in the garden........like I said...you do this quite regularly.....

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

James here is saying if we turn that brother or sister from their sinful ways back to the Lord we will save their soul from the second death in the lake of fire.......<-----Words added emphasized.......!

AngelFrog · Mar 17, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

I believe I misunderstand that excerpt in your post. Are you saying we have to earn salvation by adhering perfectly to the law now after Christ and the cross?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2015

AngelFrog said:

no, I am saying if you want to earn your way to heaven, thats what you have to do.

for the rest of us who clearly understand this, there is only the cross.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Yes I do know he was not one of the original 12, but he was named among the apostles later just as Mathias, Paul, Timothy, and others were that were not part of the original 12.

And I did not add the words like you say because I gave the scripture, then under it I gave the commentary of what is being said there. I did not put extra words in the original scripture like you say.
Apostle James clearly says you will save their soul, he did not say you will save their body.
God is the only one who has the power to destroy the soul, and He does that by the lake of fire. It is not hard to understand that if you use scripture to interpret scripture as the bible clearly shows one must do to get the full meaning. Man can only kill the body, at judgment in front of God's great white judgment seat is the only place a person can have judgment passed on them to have the soul destroyed in the lake of fire.

The part you posted from me was my commentary, and not the scripture itself as I posted the scripture first then said what is being talked about. This is not adding to by doing that as all biblical scholars who are preachers/teachers of the word do that.

AngelFrog · Mar 17, 2015

AngelFrog said:

Thank you for clarifying.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

I will again show you james in context.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; [SUP]24 [/SUP]for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]If anyone among you[SUP][b][/SUP] thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Not everyone who james spoke to was saved, if they were saved, james would not tell them to recieve the word which can save them, for they would already be saved.

he just got done telling them to test their faith.

if a person is a sinner, they have not been saved yet, they are still dead in sin.

thats the part you can not fathom, your trying so hard to earn you way to heaven, and think you have made it you reject what james said

[SUP]9 [/SUP]but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. [SUP]1[/SUP]

The law still condemns you, yet you claim it can not. you have been placed above the law. sorry bro, apart from the cross. this is not true.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

James 3:10-13

10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

and this proves you walk in love 100% of the day everyday?

Your joking right?

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