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E
Dude, everything you preach is about what YOU DO. and how everyone else should DO WHAT YOU DO.
it is all about yourself.
Your self decieved. Sorry, but when you claimed you were worthy, and you do not commit sins which condemn you by the law. I lost all respect for you. Your just a modern day pharisee. And you will be treated as they were.
it is all about yourself.
Your self decieved. Sorry, but when you claimed you were worthy, and you do not commit sins which condemn you by the law. I lost all respect for you. Your just a modern day pharisee. And you will be treated as they were.
K
Yes exactly !!!
We are saved by grace and not works, but the fruits of the Spirit are proof of a true faith.
As the branch (believer) bears fruit from tree (God, Lord, Holy Spirit) that abides in them by their true faith.
The bible says that branches that produce no fruit or bad fruit are gathered and burned.
K
No what I preach is what the Holy Spirit has done in my life, and how the bible says and shows how a true born again believer will act. All of Paul's epistles say what a believer can and can not do, John's 1st epistle in chapters 2-4 show that by our actions we know we abide in Christ and He abides in us. James epistle also says how a believer can not act, and even says if a person can not bridle their tongue (keeps speaking wrongfully toward others) then their faith/religion is useless because they are not walking in love.
D
Saved by works or saved by grace, that is the question. The bible clearly states in black and white that we are saved by grace, not works. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Titus 3;5, etc. etc. There are a multitude of scripture references that clearly show that the grace, love and mercy of our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ are what saves us. So why are people still expounding their works doctrines? I believe it's because they like to boast about how much they obey the rules and are, therefore, more righteous and better than others so God can pat them on the back and give them the reward of salvation for their righteous acts. It's kind of the attitude that Cain had who slew his own brother Abel because God had respect unto Abel's works of faith and " Lord be merciful to me a sinner" attitude but not to Cains self-righteous physical works of "look how great and righteous I am and all the hard work and sacrifices I made."
In Matthew 26:31, Jesus said to His disciples, "You will all fall away because of me this night. For it is written, 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32 But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered him, "Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away. They all had a weak moment and temporarily fell away that night, but it was not permanent and this did not make them antichrist's. Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
We are either FOR Christ or AGAINST Him. That's what ANTI means, AGAINST. In Matthew 12:30, Jesus said - Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. If you want to divide up lost unbelievers into categories of deceivers and simply deceived, that's your choice, but ultimately, we are either with Christ or against Christ. There is no middle ground.
Do believers or unbelievers repent (Acts 3:19) and confess their sins? (1 John 1:9). Do believers or unbelievers say they have no sin (1 John 1:8) and have not sinned? (1 John 1:10).
James 1:15 - Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Show me the words "where you obey it instead of obeying the Lord" in James 1:15. You have added your own commentary to that verse. In Romans 6:23, Paul said - For the wages of sin is death; BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. In 1 John 3:9,John said - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Please read 1 John 3:7-10 - NAS and give me a description of children of the devil vs. children of God.
Who said he died in unrepented sins? If his spirit was saved then he obviously repented. Once again, destruction of the flesh is more than simply being shunned by the church. This is grave physical consequences and goes beyond common divine chastening of the Lord - ólethros (from ollymi/"destroy") – properly, ruination with its full, destructive results.
Believers have repented, confessed, and obeying His ways characterizes them. A genuine born again believer who has never repented, confessed, and does not obey His ways is an OXYMORON (1 John 2:3; 2:10; 3:9,10). Now that doesn't mean that a born again believer can never mess up at all.
The NAS translation does - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Do you interpret "does not sin" to mean never sins at all? Do you believe that you are sinless 100% of the time?
As I explained before, the idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. The practice is habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Do you agree with that? Does that fit your definition of "does not sin?"
Producing fruit is the demonstrative evidence that we have repented. Christians walk in the light and in love, but this does not mean they never sin at all and it also does not mean that they have permanently fallen away every time they mess up. I'm still not seeing the words "sin controls you" and now you "lost your salvation" in James 1:15. That's your commentary. John clearly stated that no one who is born of God practices sin.. (1 John 3:9) yet you say "those who are born of God practice sin and lose their salvation." Who should I believe?
We are either FOR Christ or AGAINST Him. That's what ANTI means, AGAINST. In Matthew 12:30, Jesus said - Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. If you want to divide up lost unbelievers into categories of deceivers and simply deceived, that's your choice, but ultimately, we are either with Christ or against Christ. There is no middle ground.
Do believers or unbelievers repent (Acts 3:19) and confess their sins? (1 John 1:9). Do believers or unbelievers say they have no sin (1 John 1:8) and have not sinned? (1 John 1:10).
James 1:15 - Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Show me the words "where you obey it instead of obeying the Lord" in James 1:15. You have added your own commentary to that verse. In Romans 6:23, Paul said - For the wages of sin is death; BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. In 1 John 3:9,John said - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Please read 1 John 3:7-10 - NAS and give me a description of children of the devil vs. children of God.
Who said he died in unrepented sins? If his spirit was saved then he obviously repented. Once again, destruction of the flesh is more than simply being shunned by the church. This is grave physical consequences and goes beyond common divine chastening of the Lord - ólethros (from ollymi/"destroy") – properly, ruination with its full, destructive results.
Believers have repented, confessed, and obeying His ways characterizes them. A genuine born again believer who has never repented, confessed, and does not obey His ways is an OXYMORON (1 John 2:3; 2:10; 3:9,10). Now that doesn't mean that a born again believer can never mess up at all.
The NAS translation does - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Do you interpret "does not sin" to mean never sins at all? Do you believe that you are sinless 100% of the time?
As I explained before, the idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. The practice is habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Do you agree with that? Does that fit your definition of "does not sin?"
Producing fruit is the demonstrative evidence that we have repented. Christians walk in the light and in love, but this does not mean they never sin at all and it also does not mean that they have permanently fallen away every time they mess up. I'm still not seeing the words "sin controls you" and now you "lost your salvation" in James 1:15. That's your commentary. John clearly stated that no one who is born of God practices sin.. (1 John 3:9) yet you say "those who are born of God practice sin and lose their salvation." Who should I believe?
K
Well that depends on what one means by work based, as some have falsely claimed on others who are zealous for good works as preaching a works to earn salvation which I do not. I have repeated myself at least 20 times on here saying I do not believe in a works to earn salvation gospel.
I believe in a true faith in the Lord will by the Holy Spirit have good fruit produce that shows out in works, and the bible says this is proof of a true faith. Therefore faith and works of the Spirit go hand and hand for salvation, as the Holy Spirit will always work in and through a believer. The bible then says no fruit or bad fruit produced, those branches will be gathered and burned.
The bible says we should be zealous for good works, and encourage others to do good works.
Lord Jesus says in Luke 12 He gives an example of a disobedient servant to his master, and says those who are disobedient will be cut in two and appointed a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers. Matthew 25 shows two groups that call Jesus their Lord, one gets eternal life for obeying to walk in love toward others. The other group gets sent to eternal punishment for not showing love toward others, and Lord Jesus says because they have denied others they have denied Him.
K
Yes they were made to stumble because they did not want to face persecution along side Jesus, this does not mean they were considered antichrists.
They all came back to Him, and even though we do not have all the writings we know by the Word that they repented and came back to Him. Which shows we can still mess up from time to time, but if we come back to Him He will always accept us. Once again though this does not apply to those who walk away and never return......
Just a quick point on thoughts. God has promises:
Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
If by faith we accept and claim these promises then we will not have evil thoughts.
But don't be deceived, not every thought that pops into your head originates from you. Just as God can speak through our thoughts so can Satan.
It is how you react to that thought that tells you if it is yours or Satan's.
For example, you see a really good looking member of the opposite sex and a lustful thought enters your mind.
If you entertain it then it is your thought.
But if you dismiss it and turn from it straight away and turn to Christ. then it was nothing more than the temptation of the Devil.
I say this for those who think every time an evil thought enters their mind that they are suddenly rotten bad people. No you are not, you are simply being tempted by the evil one, and to such I say:
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
If by faith we accept and claim these promises then we will not have evil thoughts.
But don't be deceived, not every thought that pops into your head originates from you. Just as God can speak through our thoughts so can Satan.
It is how you react to that thought that tells you if it is yours or Satan's.
For example, you see a really good looking member of the opposite sex and a lustful thought enters your mind.
If you entertain it then it is your thought.
But if you dismiss it and turn from it straight away and turn to Christ. then it was nothing more than the temptation of the Devil.
I say this for those who think every time an evil thought enters their mind that they are suddenly rotten bad people. No you are not, you are simply being tempted by the evil one, and to such I say:
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
You don't understand how great grace is Kenneth. You don't understand what the cross of Christ achieved. You basically believe what I was taught 45 years ago. And you do not understand it is a two part covenant, not one part. If you understood what that meant, you would not write what you do.
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K
Your right because the cross did nothing, it was Christ death on the cross that gave us a way to receive remission from sins and be reconciled to God. We enter into the kingdom by His blood to receive eternal life by continuing in the faith, repenting of our sins, being baptized/born again, and walking in the Spirit.
The milk of the word given by Jesus has to be followed to be born again, as without repentance, being born again, and walking in the Spirit/love for others He says those will still perish.
Do you or your church do away with repentance, baptism/born again, confession, and forgiveness of others ???
The defining moment of your life is when the law is written on your mind and placed on your heart. You have been born again of the Spirit. You instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to obey. You have heartfelt conviction of sin for the first time in your life. But you have not been born again in the flesh. Every time you go against the law placed on your heart, your conscience seers you as with a hot iron, and the longer you are stubborn, the lower you are brought to. It can be no other way. There is no way out of this. To say born again people can use grace as a licence to happily sin is ridiculous. No truly born again Christian could happily sin without conscience.
God is not stupid, Christ being the end of the law unto righteousness is only for those who have been born again of the Spirit, for they cannot use grace as a licence to sin. The law God wants them to keep is on their heart, meaning in their heart they want to obey it. They feel bad enough when they fail, without needing people to tell them they must perform almost perfect or they are in danger of being cast into hell, all that does is to crush them.
I speak from experience, not from the head.
God is not stupid, Christ being the end of the law unto righteousness is only for those who have been born again of the Spirit, for they cannot use grace as a licence to sin. The law God wants them to keep is on their heart, meaning in their heart they want to obey it. They feel bad enough when they fail, without needing people to tell them they must perform almost perfect or they are in danger of being cast into hell, all that does is to crush them.
I speak from experience, not from the head.
E
works based means I have done a work (an act of righteousness) which has caused me to earn salvation. Because I have fulfilled the law. and no longer am conemned by it because of what I do.
Grace means mercy given to people who admit they can not keep the law. and seek God for help.
You admit you do not need help. You have made it.
Grace means mercy given to people who admit they can not keep the law. and seek God for help.
You admit you do not need help. You have made it.
Amen and Cain makes it first on the list of the false teachers that Jude preaches about....He compares them to Cain, Korah and Balaam....of course Cain put forth his own works and expected God to receive it...much like those who will come before Christ expecting to enter the Kingdom based upon the many wonderful works they have done in the name of Christ....faith saves eternally......not works....!
K
Well then if you say those are works and are not needed then you are denying Jesus teaching........
He is the one that said repent or perish.......
He is the one that said you must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven..........
He is the one that said you have to forgive others or you will not be forgiven..........
He is the one that said you have to keep your confession in Him or He will deny you in heaven.........
He is the one who said the biggest one of all, to show love toward others for if you deny them He will deny you.......
If you claim none of this that Jesus said is required for salvation then you have been deceived by a false teaching.
E
again a sign of salvation, not a prerequisite for salvation. Who would recieve the forgiveness of God and indwelling HS and not confess jesus? It is not to be saved, it is because you are saved (lest anyone should boast)
Again just as above, Not to get saved, the people who are saved WILL DO THIS because they are saved, not to get saved (lest anyone should boast)
If you claim these things are in order to gain salvation, You teach a salvation of works. which is not from God.
Your earning your eternity (or trying) not looking to God to save you.
Again just as above, Not to get saved, the people who are saved WILL DO THIS because they are saved, not to get saved (lest anyone should boast)
If you claim these things are in order to gain salvation, You teach a salvation of works. which is not from God.
Your earning your eternity (or trying) not looking to God to save you.
I would like to seek clarification on something.
You seem to be saying that it is the born again person who is convicted of sin. not sure if I am reading you right. While I agree the born again person is convicted of sin.
I would suggest that conviction of sin comes before being born again.
Take Paul in Romans 7, this is before the born again experience and yet he is most obviously convicted of sin.
For me it very much started this way, I was first convicted of sin yet I was trapped in that sin so I sought out a solution and I found it in Christ.
The point I am making is one can and should be convicted of sin in their heart before they are born again.
You seem to be saying that it is the born again person who is convicted of sin. not sure if I am reading you right. While I agree the born again person is convicted of sin.
I would suggest that conviction of sin comes before being born again.
Take Paul in Romans 7, this is before the born again experience and yet he is most obviously convicted of sin.
For me it very much started this way, I was first convicted of sin yet I was trapped in that sin so I sought out a solution and I found it in Christ.
The point I am making is one can and should be convicted of sin in their heart before they are born again.