Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

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MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

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#1
Nov 19, 2014
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#1
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]8.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth isnot in us. 9. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ifwe confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif].10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and hisword is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Soif confess our sins, and not fight for them, like people's do today,then our Lord will clean us for our sins, like the Scriptures alsotell us, if we read the whole subject, because I think it is very common, that people's use only a part of this subject, when they try to convince, that man can't live without sinning.

But man can, and man should live without sinning. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Donot deceive your selves, but be truthful so you may com clean fromsinning.[/FONT]
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#2
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#2
The only reason people twist 1 John 1:9 beyond what it plainly says is that they are trying to on some level justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. I am not sure that some people are even consciously aware that they are doing so (In which case, my prayers are with them). But part of the verse is about one being humble before God (See Luke 18:9-14). Yet, we know pride goeth before the fall like in the beginning, though. However, nobody (including believers) will be able to get away with sin. For every knee will bow to the Lord and confess. So one may not want to confess their sins now, but one day they will have to confess that Jesus is Lord (Instead of them professing that they can live any way they like with the false thinking they are still saved).
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#3
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#3
Jason0047 said:
The only reason people twist 1 John 1:9 beyond what it plainly says is that they are trying to on some level justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. I am not sure that some people are even consciously aware that they are doing so (In which case, my prayers are with them). But part of the verse is about one being humble before God (See Luke 18:9-14). Yet, we know pride goeth before the fall like in the beginning, though. However, nobody (including believers) will be able to get away with sin. For every knee will bow to the Lord and confess. So one may not want to confess their sins now, but one day they will have to confess that Jesus is Lord (Instead of them professing that they can live any way they like with the false thinking they are still saved).
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For Jesus is Lord; And it is not themselves or their sin.
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#4
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
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#4
MikkoAinasoja said:
8.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth isnot in us. 9. Ifwe confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and hisword is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

Soif confess our sins, and not fight for them, like people's do today,then our Lord will clean us for our sins, like the Scriptures alsotell us, if we read the whole subject, because I think it is very common, that people's use only a part of this subject, when they try to convince, that man can't live without sinning.

But man can, and man should live without sinning.

Donot deceive your selves, but be truthful so you may com clean fromsinning.
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God wants us to admit that we are sick and in need of a Physician; but some of us believe that they aren't sick and that they are the doctor; and those that think that away, are going straight to the insane asylum where the hopeless cases goes.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#5
Nov 19, 2014
683
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#5
Jason0047 said:
The only reason people twist 1 John 1:9 beyond what it plainly says is that they are trying to on some level justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. I am not sure that some people are even consciously aware that they are doing so (In which case, my prayers are with them). But part of the verse is about one being humble before God (See Luke 18:9-14). Yet, we know pride goeth before the fall like in the beginning, though. However, nobody (including believers) will be able to get away with sin. For every knee will bow to the Lord and confess. So one may not want to confess their sins now, but one day they will have to confess that Jesus is Lord (Instead of them professing that they can live any way they like with the false thinking they are still saved).
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Yes I believe also, that people's do this because they have need to find justify to them sins.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#6
Nov 19, 2014
683
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#6
4enlightment said:
God wants us to admit that we are sick and in need of a Physician; but some of us believe that they aren't sick and that they are the doctor; and those that think that away, are going straight to the insane asylum where the hopeless cases goes.
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Don't you think that you give here like two kind of fruits?

We should be holy as God is holy.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#7
#7
what if you forget to confess one sin? and die in your sleep? what if before the truck hits you you say damn; then you are in a coma?
Is God's mercy and forgiveness predicated on YOU asking? do you have to confess it outloud verbally?

I'm not trying to be a jerk I just don't understand why this keeping track of sins is beneficial, it seems it would be a heavy load
seems like it would be more productive to concentrate on Jesus (thanking Him for paying the price for my unbelief and disobeiance) and strive to do that which is right in His sight than marking all the checkboxes of "sins I comitted today"
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#8
May 15, 2013
4,307
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#8
Confess means to admit, and which some of us our in denial.

John 9:41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
 
K

kedge

Banned
#9
Mar 20, 2015
768
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#9
MikkoAinasoja said:
man can't live without sinning.
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One can find scripture to support this concept, and no doubt others can counter it with another.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.



Watch the counter strike :)

Also, what was the point in God creating planet earth if after all this suffering here on earth we go to be spirit persons in some spirit realm?, why not create us spirit persons in the beginning?. Seems to me God went to a lot of trouble to create such an amazing universe with phenomenal natural structures and plant life and animal life and human beings for them to suffer in this debauched world only to be with Him in this spiritual heaven, i can't get my head around that one, also, does this not mean that God is part to blame for the suffering of mankind?, something does not sit right with me on this subject at hand. Each to their own interpretation i suppose, but what a mess of confusion, no wonder atheists mock sometimes, not that i agree with mocking but it can be a little disconcerting, imho.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#10
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#10
4enlightment said:
God wants us to admit that we are sick and in need of a Physician; but some of us believe that they aren't sick and that they are the doctor; and those that think that away, are going straight to the insane asylum where the hopeless cases goes.
Click to expand...
Uh, confessing your sins to Jesus is going to the physician. In other words, if a believer is not confessing their sins, it is like they are letting a serious illness go untreated, which will eventually cause them pain and then death.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#11
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#11
psalm6819 said:
what if you forget to confess one sin? and die in your sleep? what if before the truck hits you you say damn; then you are in a coma?
Is God's mercy and forgiveness predicated on YOU asking? do you have to confess it outloud verbally?

I'm not trying to be a jerk I just don't understand why this keeping track of sins is beneficial, it seems it would be a heavy load
seems like it would be more productive to concentrate on Jesus (thanking Him for paying the price for my unbelief and disobeiance) and strive to do that which is right in His sight than marking all the checkboxes of "sins I comitted today"
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Your problem is not with what we have said, but with what the Word of God says. We quoted 1 John 1:9. My BIble in 1 John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Now, if all your sins are already forgiven (past, present, and future) by some type of OSAS belief, then how in the world can you be forgiven of sins by confessing them?

Anyways, to answer your questions, God knows who will loves Him and those who don't love Him. For there are professing believers who love their lives and sin more than they do God. But because they have an OSAS belief, they are saved. They don't have to confess or repent of their sins. However, in reality, if a person dies and they did not confess or repent of their sins, then that was the person God knew would never truly love and accept Him and His good ways.
 
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S

Sophia

Guest
#12
#12
There is no excuse for sin in a Believers life,
however, there is also a continual need to pursue holiness, because we have not obtained the perfection of the new body.

Sin should never be "commonplace" or considered "acceptable" to us.
Sin is never acceptable.

Sinless perfection doctrines, and other such things, ignore the reality of their failings rather than fighting against them.
They place the burden of Salvation upon the shoulders of man, rather than laying it at the foot of the Cross.

What is our response when we sin? :Turn from it, by turning to Christ.
Those who say they have already obtained perfection are fooling themselves. Not even Paul claimed such things, nor any of the Apostles. Only Christ.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#13
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#13
psalm6819 said:
what if you forget to confess one sin? and die in your sleep? what if before the truck hits you you say damn; then you are in a coma?
Is God's mercy and forgiveness predicated on YOU asking? do you have to confess it outloud verbally?

I'm not trying to be a jerk I just don't understand why this keeping track of sins is beneficial, it seems it would be a heavy load
seems like it would be more productive to concentrate on Jesus (thanking Him for paying the price for my unbelief and disobeiance) and strive to do that which is right in His sight than marking all the checkboxes of "sins I comitted today"
Click to expand...
Jesus paid my sin debt when he hung on the tree, my sin was laid to his charge and his righteousness has been imputed unto me by faith......He stands non stop mediating for me always......!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
#14
Jason0047 said:
The only reason people twist 1 John 1:9 beyond what it plainly says is that they are trying to on some level justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. I am not sure that some people are even consciously aware that they are doing so (In which case, my prayers are with them). But part of the verse is about one being humble before God (See Luke 18:9-14). Yet, we know pride goeth before the fall like in the beginning, though. However, nobody (including believers) will be able to get away with sin. For every knee will bow to the Lord and confess. So one may not want to confess their sins now, but one day they will have to confess that Jesus is Lord (Instead of them professing that they can live any way they like with the false thinking they are still saved).
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lol, yet here you are justifying your sin by using first john 1: 9.

amazing.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
#15
psalm6819 said:
what if you forget to confess one sin? and die in your sleep? what if before the truck hits you you say damn; then you are in a coma?
Is God's mercy and forgiveness predicated on YOU asking? do you have to confess it outloud verbally?

I'm not trying to be a jerk I just don't understand why this keeping track of sins is beneficial, it seems it would be a heavy load
seems like it would be more productive to concentrate on Jesus (thanking Him for paying the price for my unbelief and disobeiance) and strive to do that which is right in His sight than marking all the checkboxes of "sins I comitted today"
Click to expand...
because pride refuses to allow them to repent.

They make up their own set of laws. claim they follow them, and are holy because of them. when the law still condemns them.

they reject Jesus words on the cross "it is finished, paid in full" because their flesh is week, and they can not fathom that god can forgive them unconditionally. they thin they need to help God.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#16
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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0
#16
Sophia said:
There is no excuse for sin in a Believers life,
however, there is also a continual need to pursue holiness, because we have not obtained the perfection of the new body.

Sin should never be "commonplace" or considered "acceptable" to us.
Sin is never acceptable.

Sinless perfection doctrines, and other such things, ignore the reality of their failings rather than fighting against them.
They place the burden of Salvation upon the shoulders of man, rather than laying it at the foot of the Cross.

What is our response when we sin? :Turn from it, by turning to Christ.
Those who say they have already obtained perfection are fooling themselves. Not even Paul claimed such things, nor any of the Apostles. Only Christ.
Click to expand...
It depends on how you define sinless perfectionism. First, there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16). Second, I am not claiming to have acheived perfection and many other Anti-OSAS proponents will not make that claim, either. The key difference here is that one is not sinning with the thinking they are saved. I am talking about those types of sins that lead unto death such as lying, hating, murdering, lusting, stealing, and getting drunk, etc. Paul lists these sins several times and says at one point (in relation to those sins)..... "be not deceived" ..... "for the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." We are not talking about unintentional sins where a believer might drink socially at a restaurant and make another brother or sister to stumble (without their knowledge that they were being watched).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
Jason0047 said:
It depends on how you define sinless perfectionism. First, there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16). Second, I am not claiming to have acheived perfection and many other Anti-OSAS proponents will not make that claim, either. The key difference here is that one is not sinning with the thinking they are saved. I am talking about those types of sins that lead unto death such as lying, hating, murdering, lusting, stealing, and getting drunk, etc. Paul lists these sins several times and says at one point (in relation to those sins)..... "be not deceived" ..... "for the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."
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first off. 1 John is speaking of physical death, not spiritual.

second. they law does not differentiate between sins (break even the least of the law. you found guilty of it all as james says)

third. I am not sinning thinking I am saved, When I sin, it just proves how totally wretched I still am. As apposed to you. WHo thinks you are holy, and when you sin you just "mess up" and excuse your sin by using first john 1: 9
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#18
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#18
eternally-gratefull said:
lol, yet here you are justifying your sin by using first john 1: 9.

amazing.
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No. You would be wrong. Who was more justifed? The Tax Collector who cried out to God to have mercy on him or the Pharisee who thought he was God's untouchable child and was better than the Tax Collector?
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#19
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#19
psalm6819 said:
what if you forget to confess one sin? and die in your sleep? what if before the truck hits you you say damn; then you are in a coma?
Is God's mercy and forgiveness predicated on YOU asking? do you have to confess it outloud verbally?

I'm not trying to be a jerk I just don't understand why this keeping track of sins is beneficial, it seems it would be a heavy load
seems like it would be more productive to concentrate on Jesus (thanking Him for paying the price for my unbelief and disobeiance) and strive to do that which is right in His sight than marking all the checkboxes of "sins I comitted today"
Click to expand...
"If we confess our sins" is in the present tense. In Greek, the present tense is less concerned with present time than with ongoing or habitual action. The intent is not that each individual sin must be individually acknowledged and confessed. The intent is that we genuinely desire to cease from doing things that add to the Lord's suffering; and earnestly desire his help in turning from them.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#20
#20
Jason0047 said:
No. You would be wrong. Who was more justifed? The Tax Collector who cried out to God to have mercy on him or the Pharisee who thought he was God's untouchable child and was better than the Tax Collector?
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well lets see

Since I represent the tax collector (Oh how wretched I am)

And you represent the pharisee (I better not sin or I will lose the gift God gave me (salvation), This I am more righteous than those sinners who want to have easy believism, which is reality is not easy at all)

You tell me
 
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