Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

[Jason0047]

Besides, do you think it is smarter to play it safe when it comes to salvation or do you think we should be all cavalier and hotshot about such a topic? Well, I am here to tell you that God is good and He will NOT tolerate or excuse anyone's sin under any circumstances. For sin put Jesus Christ on the cross. That is how He took care of sin. God does not deal with sin lightly. This whole false theology that a believer can get away with sin under certain circumstances is wrong and it is evil. There is no excuse for sin.

 

[Jason0047]

If I could just attain the sinless perfection they have then God will love me and accept me. Amen... I'm so free in Christ!

Free to not worry about sin? What does 1 John 3 say about the sin of hating your brother? Does it say that eternal life abides in a person that hates their brother? Can a believer be forgiven by God if they don't forgive another?

 

[Sophia]

In other words, the scenario you describe will not happen to the true believer in Jesus Christ. God will protect His people (Who are good and not evil). Yes, I am aware there are those who are saved by the skin of their teeth like Samson and Solomon. However, they are not examples of how we should live uprightly before the Lord.

The point I am trying to make is that God is Holy and He will not make an excuse for our sin under any circumstance. For how many sins did it take for Adam and Eve to fall? Just one. That's all it took. What makes you think things have changed?

Woah woah woah. The "scenario" is a testimony I have shared on the forum a few tines now. I was in group counseling with the wife of that man.
Excusing sin and forgiving sin are two separate things.
Caleb was certainly met with the open arm of the Saviour.

Read Ephesians, Jason. Encourage righteousness instead of condemning Believers. Salvation is not temporary. It is eternal. It is not in a constant state of gained then lost, regained, relost, rinse/repeat.
Such things are not the attitude of the Reborn.

 

[Sophia]

Besides, do you think it is smarter to play it safe when it comes to salvation or do you think we should be all cavalier and hotshot about such a topic? Well, I am here to tell you that God is good and He will NOT tolerate or excuse anyone's sin under any circumstances. For sin put Jesus Christ on the cross. That is how He took care of sin. God does not deal with sin lightly. This whole false theology that a believer can get away with sin under certain circumstances is wrong and it is evil. There is no excuse for sin.

"Playing it smarter" sounds like the attitude of one who thinks Christ is not enough.
I agree that there is no excuse for sin,
but also that there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

Let me use a real world example: Let's say a parent allows his child to do bad or sinful things. What would that say about the parent? Would not the parent be just as guilty for allowing their child to do wrong? In other words, if God just overlooked just one sin in a believer's life, then why doesn't the Lord just overlook all our other sins? What purpose would their be of the Lord going to the cross then (if He can just overlook our sin and or evil)?

 

[Jason0047]

"Playing it smarter" sounds like the attitude of one who thinks Christ is not enough.
I agree that there is no excuse for sin,
but also that there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

I am not saying Christ is not enough. But one who is truly in Christ will not need to worry about any future silly scenario that will cause a separation between them and God. For nothing external will be able to separate you from the love of Christ. It is always up to YOU if you want to remain in Christ or not. It is a free will choice. That is why we are here. To choose this day whom we will serve.

But according to Romans 8:1, those who are in Christ Jesus (Who are not under the Condemnation) are those who WALK after the Spirit and it is not those who walk after the flesh (Which is sin and death). Again, if Adam and Eve fell by committing just one sin, then that means we can, too. For if that was not the case, then God would be a respecter of persons then. For the Scriptures say it is the fear of the Lord that we persuade men.

 

[Sophia]

Do believers normally experience fear when a fellow believer dies? No. Why on Earth would an entire church and others who heard about Ananais and Sapphira death of their going to heaven for lying scare anyone? Why should people be afraid to go to Heaven for sinning? That doesn't make any sense. They went to Hell and not Heaven. I mean, what kind of message does that send? Should we just sin now so we can be with the Lord sooner? No, of course not. God's judgments do not lead to life but they lead to death (i.e. spiritual death).

The Lord displaying His Power over life and death, instantly removing one from the Assembly due to sin? That doesn't warrant Holy fear?
Yes, early death is chastising for sin.
If they were not children of God, He would not have chastised them so.
Jason, the Assembly did not fear condemnation, but chastisement, and rightly so!!

Do you not have fear of God's chastisment? Are you not brought to fear of the Lord and His active judgement when you hear of such punishment?
If you fear for your salvation, then you need Christ.
If you fear for your life and blessing, then you need to continue in pursuing the Call.

 

[Sophia]

Let me use a real world example: Let's say a parent allows his child to do bad or sinful things. What would that say about the parent? Would not the parent be just as guilty for allowing their child to do wrong? In other words, if God just overlooked just one sin in a believer's life, then why doesn't the Lord just overlook all our other sins? What purpose would their be of the Lord going to the cross then (if He can just overlook our sin and or evil)?

God chastises His Children in real-time, to preserve them from future condemnation.
Are you not listening to 1st Peter?

The "parent" disciplines the one they love, and does not discipline the ones that are not theirs.


Hell is not discipline!!!!! Where would you get that?

 

[Sophia]

I am not saying Christ is not enough. But one who is truly in Christ will not need to worry about any future silly scenario that will cause a separation between them and God. For nothing external will be able to separate you from the love of Christ. It is always up to YOU if you want to remain in Christ or not. It is a free will choice. That is why we are here. To choose this day whom we will serve.

But according to Romans 8:1, those who are in Christ Jesus (Who are not under the Condemnation) are those who WALK after the Spirit and it is not those who walk after the flesh (Which is sin and death). Again, if Adam and Eve fell by committing just one sin, then that means we can, too. For if that was not the case, then God would be a respecter of persons then. For the Scriptures say it is the fear of the Lord that we persuade men.

Lol. You need to read about what "respected of persons" means.
It actually means that His election and salvation is NOT based on your actions, but on His Will alone.
He does not respect the actions of any persons as qualification for election.

 

[Jason0047]

The Lord displaying His Power over life and death, instantly removing one from the Assembly due to sin? That doesn't warrant Holy fear?
Yes, early death is chastising for sin.
If they were not children of God, He would not have chastised them so.
Jason, the Assembly did not fear condemnation, but chastisement, and rightly so!!

Do you not have fear of God's chastisment? Are you not brought to fear of the Lord and His active judgement when you hear of such punishment?
If you fear for your salvation, then you need Christ.
If you fear for your life and blessing, then you need to continue in pursuing the Call.

Nobody else sinned but Ananias and Sapphira. The rest of the church did not lie to the Holy Spirit. They did. Big difference.

Also, no. A true believer who walks with the Lord is not afraid of death. For they know that death is a time of being with God.

In Philippians 2:17-18, we see Paul tell us about his possible death as a "drink offering on the sacrificial offering" in faith. For Paul is more than ready to die. Paul says, "if that happens, I am glad and rejoice with you all. Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me."

In other words, Paul rejoices at the idea of his potential death and he is telling the brethren to rejoice with him, too. For he said earlier, "My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better (Philippians 1:23).

Jesus spoke in a similar way with his disciples, too. He said, "If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

 

[Jason0047]

Lol. You need to read about what "respected of persons" means.
It actually means that His election and salvation is NOT based on your actions, but on His Will alone.
He does not respect the actions of any persons as qualification for election.

Granted, while I do not believe in Works Salvationism, respect of persons has to do with how we behave before the Lord. For the context would suggest the exact opposite of what you are saying here.

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:9-11).

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (Acts 10:34-35).

 

[Jason0047]

God chastises His Children in real-time, to preserve them from future condemnation.
Are you not listening to 1st Peter?

The "parent" disciplines the one they love, and does not discipline the ones that are not theirs.


Hell is not discipline!!!!! Where would you get that?

You were implying before that a believer could get away with cussing before they died. What other sins can a believer do before they die? I say this because God is not in the business of letting His people get away with sin. If they repent of their sin before they die, then yes, they are forgiven. Because they had a change of heart. Also, if a believer does cuss before they die, it usually is not a new type of a sin (But an old one). It is a sin that they enjoyed hanging onto. For that is why people sin. They sin because they like it. See the "Condemnation"in John 3:19-21.

But as I said before, I am not against a father chastising their children or God chastising His children. Discipline and correction is for God's people who will end up being good and not evil.

 

[Sophia]

You were implying before that a believer could get away with cussing before they died. What other sins can a believer do before they die? I say this because God is not in the business of letting His people get away with sin. If they repent of their sin before they die, then yes, they are forgiven. Because they had a change of heart. Also, if a believer does cuss before they die, it usually is not a new type of a sin (But an old one). It is a sin that they enjoyed hanging onto. For that is why people sin. They sin because they like it. See the "Condemnation"in John 3:19-21.

But as I said before, I am not against a father chastising their children or God chastising His children. Discipline and correction is for God's people who will end up being good and not evil.

Get away with sin? What are you talking about?
If you believe in the chastisment of God, then you know that Believers do not ever "get away with" sin. That is foolish talk.
How lightly do you take the chastisement of the Lord? Fear it.

 

[Jason0047]

Woah woah woah. The "scenario" is a testimony I have shared on the forum a few tines now. I was in group counseling with the wife of that man.
Excusing sin and forgiving sin are two separate things.
Caleb was certainly met with the open arm of the Saviour.

You are not above the Word of God. There still is no excuse for sin. If a person sins and does not repent and then dies, they are not saved. We may not like to hear that, but that is the cold hard truth or reality of what God's Word teaches.

Read Ephesians, Jason.

Please do not act like I have not read the book. I have read it and I plan to keep reading it again and again. But if you believe that reading Ephesians will convince me that someone can sin, then die, and be saved, you got another thing coming. If you believe the Bible teaches otherwise, then please show me the verses.

Encourage righteousness instead of condemning Believers. Salvation is not temporary. It is eternal. It is not in a constant state of gained then lost, regained, relost, rinse/repeat.
Such things are not the attitude of the Reborn.

I don't condemn believers personally unless they have judged me personally. My goal when talking to others is to attack the belief or false doctrine and not the individual. Hence, why you see me say things like... when a person believes... etc., etc.

Well, you probably are not intending to mock God's Word. But that is what you are doing, though. The Bible clearly says if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin (1 John 1:9). If you choose not to believe that verse, that is up to you. But don't make fun of the Bible please.

 

[Jason0047]

Get away with sin? What are you talking about?
If you believe in the chastisment of God, then you know that Believers do not ever "get away with" sin. That is foolish talk.
How lightly do you take the chastisement of the Lord? Fear it.

You are skipping topics and combining them together. I was talking about sinning before a person dies (with the false thinking that they were saved). In other words, a believer being killed for sinning is not Chastisement. For how can it be? For how could they learn if they are dead?

 

[Ukorin]

You are not above the Word of God. There still is no excuse for sin. If a person sins and does not repent and then dies, they are not saved. We may not like to hear that, but that is the cold hard truth or reality of what God's Word teaches.



Please do not act like I have not read the book. I have read it and I plan to keep reading it again and again. But if you believe that reading Ephesians will convince me that someone can sin, then die, and be saved, you got another thing coming. If you believe the Bible teaches otherwise, then please show me the verses.



I don't condemn believers personally unless they have judged me personally. My goal when talking to others is to attack the belief or false doctrine and not the individual. Hence, why you see me say things like... when a person believes... etc., etc.

Well, you probably are not intending to mock God's Word. But that is what you are doing, though. The Bible clearly says if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin. If you choose not to believe that verse, that is up to you. But don't make fun of the Bible please.

Yea... you do need to read Ephesians.
Confession is not a "one and done deal", but it's also not a "last moment, and in detail, or else hell" deal either. That belief is very much against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

Yea... you do need to read Ephesians.
Confession is not a "one and done deal", but it's also not a "last moment, and in detail, or else hell" deal either. That belief is very much against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I already been thru Ephesians many times.
Care to show me the verse you had in mind?
Do you actually have a few verses in mind?

 

[Ukorin]

You are skipping topics and combining them together. I was talking about sinning before a person dies (with the false thinking that they were saved). In other words, a believer being killed for sinning is not Chastisement. For hw can it be? For how could they learn if they are dead?

Because Chastisement is also in substitution of condemnation.

 

[Ukorin]

I already been thru Ephesians many times. Care to show me the verse you had in mind or do you actually not know it?

It's not about a single verse. It's the whole first 4 chapters that refute your view.

 

[Ukorin]

In love 5 he predestined us[b] for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we haveredemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,14 who is the guarantee[d] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[e]to the praise of his glory.