Does the law forgive you if you do not meet the ten commandments,are you trying real hard.
lol
Sabbath
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lol
Correct, to an extent.
The Law cannot make you perfect, but it was never intended to do so. That's why we need a Savior.
God teaches THROUGH the 10 commandments because He gave the 10 commandments/the Law.
The law itself God desires you to keep is not done away with, it has been transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3) The penalty of transgressing the law has been done away with for the Christian. Hence Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness(not full stop) for everyone who believeth Rom 10:4
I'm not so sure about GOD teaches the law I would say that the law shows us what sin is and if that is what you are saying then I agree.
I liked your post because I saw scripture but although GOD desires man to keep the law we know that no man can keep the law so then JESUS fulfilled the law for man and gave Grace to all those that believe in the WORD of GOD
The old testament was concealed but it is revealed in the new testament.
The law was made for the lawless.
I have gotten off the OP.
I'm
Yet the Law still applies as an instruction of daily living, physically and/or spiritually.
Including the Sabbath.
Yet the Law still applies as an instruction of daily living, physically and/or spiritually.
Including the Sabbath.
It seems to me that there are too many here who are trying to observe the Law and not dying to the Law through the body of Christ that they might be married to another, even to Him Who is raised from the dead, that we may bear fruit into God (Rom 7.4).
We live the Christian life, not by striving to keep the Law but by reckoning ourselves as dead to sin (and the Law) and alive unto God through Jesus Christ our LORD (Rom 6.11). Our need is Christ living through us (Gal 2.20). Not the dead letter but the live Spirit writing in our hearts. (2 Cor 3.3) Not in the written code but in the Spirit, for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life (2 Cor 3.6).
Sadly this is what a false emphasis on 'observing the Sabbath' brings us to!!
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We live the Christian life, not by striving to keep the Law but by reckoning ourselves as dead to sin (and the Law) and alive unto God through Jesus Christ our LORD (Rom 6.11). Our need is Christ living through us (Gal 2.20). Not the dead letter but the live Spirit writing in our hearts. (2 Cor 3.3) Not in the written code but in the Spirit, for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life (2 Cor 3.6).
Sadly this is what a false emphasis on 'observing the Sabbath' brings us to!!
.
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Only if you're observing the sabbath out of obligation, and not out of a spirit of love and appreciation to our Savior. We live the Christian life out of a response to what Jesus did and how the Holy Spirit guides us daily. That Holy Spirit is the same Jesus who died for our sins and who is the same God who wrote the Torah. They all go together perfectly in its proper balance.
It is significant that Jesus actually NEVER said anything about observing the Sabbath. Much of His struggle was AGAINST those who strictly observed the Sabbath.
True He said that it was for man's benefit, but He then pointed out that He had the right to change it. And change it He did from resting on the Sabbath to doing good on the Sabbath. That is why after the New Testament days the emphasis on the Sabbath was as a day for doing good.
D
dece870717
Guest
The Bible is quite specific about who the Sabbath is for...
Nehemiah 9:13-14
13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
According to Nehemiah, God made the Sabbath known to Moses, so apparently before that, no one kept the Sabbath, God revealed it to Moses.
Exodus 31:12-13
12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
Exodus 31:16-17
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
It's pretty clear, the Sabbath was specifically for the "children of Israel".
Ezekiel 20:3,12,20
3 Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel,
12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.
20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God.
I don't know how much clearer the Bible can be on this topic. I'd be interested to hear how anyone can look at these scriptures and still say we're all meant to keep the Sabbath.
Nehemiah 9:13-14
13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
According to Nehemiah, God made the Sabbath known to Moses, so apparently before that, no one kept the Sabbath, God revealed it to Moses.
Exodus 31:12-13
12 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
Exodus 31:16-17
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
It's pretty clear, the Sabbath was specifically for the "children of Israel".
Ezekiel 20:3,12,20
3 Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel,
12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.
20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God.
I don't know how much clearer the Bible can be on this topic. I'd be interested to hear how anyone can look at these scriptures and still say we're all meant to keep the Sabbath.
Back your words up from Scripture. Show me where Jesus and Paul and Peter and John said that we must observe the Sabbath. Paul made clear that we must not be judged for not observing new moons and sabbaths, nor in respect of an observance of a particular day. I realise that you try to avoid these Scriptures by avoiding taking them for what they mean. But none of your arguments are convincing as I have shown you.
It really is quite simple. If observance of the Sabbath is so important why does the New Testament breathe no word of it.? Answer. Because it is not so important.
Not a word in the New Testament? If it was important it is inconceivable. The shadow had passed because the reality had come.
Actually the Holy Spirit is not the same Jesus Who died for our sins. That is modalism. He is the same GOD as Jesus Who died for our sins.
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His struggle was with those that strictly observed the Sabbath by their own traditions, or who did with a lack love and devotion for God.
Which verse are you thinking of that He said He had the right to change the Sabbath?
What does it mean Christ is the end of the law for righteousness?
lets take a look:
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
notice the issue is they are trying to establish their own righteousness rather than submit to Gods righteousness.
now notice the issue here its not righteousness but how one attains it. as can be seen in the verses preceding this one.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
The Gentiles were able to attain but Israel was not, why? because one did so by works of the law/own righteousness and the other by faith/Gods righteousness.
notice the issue is not trying to attain righteousness but rather the method.
lets go back to chapter 10:
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
what does Paul mean by: "law for righteousness" ? we have just seen that he likens it to self righteousness again the issue has not changed its the method that Paul is speaking of not the aim. The aim is fine the method is in question.
In other words taking context into account, Paul is saying we don't have to work for our salvation.
broader Context, Jesus the one who the law spoke of has now come so the sacrificial aspect of the law is done with, to continue in these would be righteousness by works and a denial of Christ.
Remember that the law of faith came before the law, as it is with our Father Abraham:
Gen_15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
So then was the law against faith? God forbid as it is written:
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
ok don't miss the point here, Faith came before the law and the law does not nullify or change faith. Faith was still the only method of salvation.
Notice also the insinuation in this last verse:
"for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."
Notice the issue is life given, Under the law could life be given by simply obeying the law/10 commandments God gave? no one had to have forgiveness for past sin in order to have life. thus the sacrificial system as it is written:
Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
life comes from the blood/sacrifice not keeping the law but by the atonement even in the Old Covenant was this true. But after Christ had come it is written:
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
So then it is by blood that one is made righteous and given life.
So it is clear that when Paul speaks of righteousness that comes from the law he speaks of faith in the sacrifice for us. now that Christ has come the law of sacrifice which gave life is fulfilled in Christ who's own blood gives life.
notice what Paul says next:
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
This is quoted from Leviticus:
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
it is in relation to the sacrificial system and if you read chapter 17 which leads into this saying you will see the issue is again blood. let me quote it again:
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
and again:
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Paul speaks of this as the righteousness of works, for you had to take the life and offer and offering of blood. but this was only to lead us to the true sacrifice even Jesus who died for us. we are only required to believe/trust/have faith. no longer do we offer any sacrifice.
as it is written:
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
see the issue is over sacrifice and this two was quoted from the law:
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do
It is not something you have to go get it or preform it yourself it is the work of God. as it is written:
Gen_22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
So it is that life comes through the blood but not of animals which are works but of the Christ who gave himself for us.
lets take a look:
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
notice the issue is they are trying to establish their own righteousness rather than submit to Gods righteousness.
now notice the issue here its not righteousness but how one attains it. as can be seen in the verses preceding this one.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
The Gentiles were able to attain but Israel was not, why? because one did so by works of the law/own righteousness and the other by faith/Gods righteousness.
notice the issue is not trying to attain righteousness but rather the method.
lets go back to chapter 10:
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
what does Paul mean by: "law for righteousness" ? we have just seen that he likens it to self righteousness again the issue has not changed its the method that Paul is speaking of not the aim. The aim is fine the method is in question.
In other words taking context into account, Paul is saying we don't have to work for our salvation.
broader Context, Jesus the one who the law spoke of has now come so the sacrificial aspect of the law is done with, to continue in these would be righteousness by works and a denial of Christ.
Remember that the law of faith came before the law, as it is with our Father Abraham:
Gen_15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
So then was the law against faith? God forbid as it is written:
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
ok don't miss the point here, Faith came before the law and the law does not nullify or change faith. Faith was still the only method of salvation.
Notice also the insinuation in this last verse:
"for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."
Notice the issue is life given, Under the law could life be given by simply obeying the law/10 commandments God gave? no one had to have forgiveness for past sin in order to have life. thus the sacrificial system as it is written:
Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
life comes from the blood/sacrifice not keeping the law but by the atonement even in the Old Covenant was this true. But after Christ had come it is written:
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
So then it is by blood that one is made righteous and given life.
So it is clear that when Paul speaks of righteousness that comes from the law he speaks of faith in the sacrifice for us. now that Christ has come the law of sacrifice which gave life is fulfilled in Christ who's own blood gives life.
notice what Paul says next:
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
This is quoted from Leviticus:
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
it is in relation to the sacrificial system and if you read chapter 17 which leads into this saying you will see the issue is again blood. let me quote it again:
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
and again:
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Paul speaks of this as the righteousness of works, for you had to take the life and offer and offering of blood. but this was only to lead us to the true sacrifice even Jesus who died for us. we are only required to believe/trust/have faith. no longer do we offer any sacrifice.
as it is written:
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
see the issue is over sacrifice and this two was quoted from the law:
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do
It is not something you have to go get it or preform it yourself it is the work of God. as it is written:
Gen_22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
So it is that life comes through the blood but not of animals which are works but of the Christ who gave himself for us.
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Matthew 5:18-19 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
It didn't need to be repeated in the New because God had already given it in the Old. As I like to say, your parents told you continually as a child to wash your hands after you go to the bathroom. Eventually, you learned to do it on your own. Just because your parents don't tell you to wash your hands anymore doesn't mean you don't have to. Just because Jesus didn't tell them to keep the Sabbath doesn't mean it negates the instruction prior.
I disagree. God, Jesus and the Holy cannot contradict each other, and will always teach the same things as the others.
Matthew 5:18-19 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
It didn't need to be repeated in the New because God had already given it in the Old. As I like to say, your parents told you continually as a child to wash your hands after you go to the bathroom. Eventually, you learned to do it on your own. Just because your parents don't tell you to wash your hands anymore doesn't mean you don't have to. Just because Jesus didn't tell them to keep the Sabbath doesn't mean it negates the prior instruction. If that's the standard, then the majority of the Old Testament is useless for us other than a historical document.
I disagree. God, Jesus and the Holy cannot contradict each other, and will always teach the same things as the others.