"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[tribesman]

I did explain it.

the relationship with God and adam was broken the moment he died because of sin. If Christ did not suffer the same fate, adam would never be spiritually restored.

God the father and holy spirit forsook (departed from) christ when my sin was placed on his body, thus he died, and this pain was so sever, he cried out.

Well, double imputation is still not implying that "Jesus died spiritually". It's just not there in the texts. Are you saying that Christ also went to hell for three days and nights in your stead?

Good old Romans again:

Rom.6

[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Paired with Peter's statement:

1Pet.2

[24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Our sins were all paid for by the death of Christ's body on the Cross. That's sufficient indeed.

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is all I have ever asked for Warrior, yet a few constantly want to jump on me on things that are past instead of just moving on. Therefore by the word of God I have to rebuke them...................


I want a friendly debate without name calling, baseless allegations, condemning remarks, but some just can not seem to stop doing those things.............[/QUOTE]

Just a thought.......is not the bolded above accusatory in nature........? And what does his remark have to do with your accusations?

Satan is the accuser of the brethren which is what you consistently do to me, is accuse me of something

No it is a statement of fact of what some are doing to others, and you in the past have done the same to others including to me in which I have called you out on a couple times asking for an apology......

Never got the apology, but I do have thank God because you have gotten better here recently in your approach to others.
So in that I see the Holy Spirit working in you here lately....

Accusing and Rebuking is two different things, as accusing another constantly on the same baseless allegations is of satan. As for rebuking we are called to do that to others who are falsely making allegations against us, and we are to use the word of God in that rebuking, exhortation, and then esteem them.
I can only ask politely so many times for another to stop making those false remarks against before I have to go to harsh rebuking do to being polite does not seem to work. Therefore I let God's word do it for me....

People need to learn the difference between the two of rebuking and accusing, and when one is calling another names, baseless allegations, and condemning remarks to another. Then the person receiving these hateful remarks have every right to rebuke the one doing it, especially if they have asked multiple times for them to please stop..........

 

[forsha]

Excellent! But what exactly is His Father's business?

His purpose for coming down to this earth is explained in John 6:38-40, For I came down from heaven, nor to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. His words on the cross "it is finished", meaning that he had finished the work of carrying out his Father's will by redeeming all of those that his Father had given him. Those that he died for are secured for heaven without the loss of even one. If Jesus had died for the sins of all mankind, then all mankind will be with him in heaven, which I don't think will harmonize with other scriptures.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, double imputation is still not implying that "Jesus died spiritually". It's just not there in the texts. Are you saying that Christ also went to hell for three days and nights in your stead?

Good old Romans again:

Paired with Peter's statement:

Our sins were all paid for by the death of Christ's body on the Cross. That's sufficient indeed.

your still not listening.

while jesus was on the cross. the father and spirit turned their back on him, causing him to cry out in pain the words the psalmist wrote.

My God, My God, why have you departed from me (the english text wrote forsaken me)

it was then that he was spiritually separated (dead) from the father because of your and my sin.

By the time jesus said "it was finished" fellowship had been restored (he was spiritually alive again, in union with the father) which is why he said, it is finished, if he was still separated from the father, he would still have been screaming.

when he said it is finished (paid in full) he meant it, the penalty of sin was paid.

 

[forsha]

I agree for sure......he accomplished the mission that he was sent to do....take our sin upon himself, satisfy the Heavenly Father's requirements for the redemption of humanity and make it possible for the imputation of the righteousness of God unto those who believe into the saving faith of Christ.....good post for sure!

John 6:39 says that Jesus died only for the sins of those that God gave him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 6:39 says that Jesus died only for the sins of those that God gave him.

Scripture says he was the propitions for the sins for not only the elect (our sins) but the sins of the whole world.

 

[forsha]

The "it" is the dept for our sins that He paid in full by His blood, as there no longer remains a need for a sacrifice for sins no more for Christ was the one time perfect sacrifice for all time.

Now with that being said I do not know why people keep saying He fulfilled the law, as we should be saying He through us by walking in love fulfills the law. Jesus says by following the two greatest commandments to love fulfills the law, not His crucifixion, and Apostle Paul shows this same teaching in Romans 13 where he says by walking in love upholds (keeps) and thus fulfills the law (commandments).
The second part that seems to get left off from here is how take this phrase, "it is finished," to do away with repentance and baptism that the bible says is needed to receive that remission by the Lord. Then they tend to leave off confession of Him and forgiving of others, and also the confessing of future sins as Apostle John states is needed in his epistle to receive that remission. People want something for nothing, but you have to give yourself to Him first and then the Lord says in Luke 12 for much has been given much will be required........

Sounds like you are saying that eternal salvation is dependent upon works, believing, repenting, confessing, etc.

 

[kennethcadwell]

you still have YOU in the equation. Your so stuck on YOU, that you can;t see Christ.

YOU have to do this. YOU have to do that.

That is works.

Grace is not YOU doing this or that, Grace is GOD DID THIS.

The people God saved DO GOOD WORKS. there is no question of if they will do it, THEY DO IT. You deny this, because you say people can do good works and STILL not be saved. Thus your STILL preaching YOU DO THIS< YOU DO THAT.

Thats self salvation bud, not salvation of God.



I am not accusing my brethren, I am accusing a false teacher.

Again, I am condemning your gospel. not you. I have no idea if you were ever saved, Only God does that.

Luckily for you. Salvation is not based on what you or I do or think, If God saved you at one time, he will keep his promise.

yet here you go committing a sin, yet denying it. You better beg Gods forgiveness and use first john 1: 9, You may have just lost your salvation.

Because we are in the equation !!!


Did Jesus say if I repent of your sins, or did He say if we repent of our sins ?

Did Jesus say if I confess Me through you, or did He say if we confess Him to others ?

Did Jesus say to those healed I healed you, or did He say their faith healed them ?

Did Jesus say He getting baptized by John covers us, or did He command for us to get baptized ?

Did Jesus say He being born again covers us, or did He say we have to be born again to see eternal life ?

I am not a false teacher as I do not follow the teachings of a man made doctrine that did not exist in the first 500 years of the early church. I read the bible and study, asking in prayers to God to clearify subjects, and then let Him through the Holy Spirit guide me. You do keep accusing me by your own false standards as my heart is truly for God which is why I defend His word over man made doctrines that are taking away or adding to His word.
Taking away is just as bad as adding to, so to go and tell people they do not have to follow what the Lord said in the gospel books is false teaching. Which is something I do not do, because I defend what He said. I do not go around telling people they do not have to be baptized, they do not have to keep their confession in Him, and they do not have to forgive others. If I did then that would be false teaching, as He commanded all of those, and to deny His commands is to deny Him.

 

[BradC]

John 6:39 says that Jesus died only for the sins of those that God gave him.

This is not good doctrine because the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ must be preached in all the world in every nation and to every creature. Your witness of the cross is a partial gospel and not the one we have been given in the NT.

 

[tribesman]

your still not listening.

while jesus was on the cross. the father and spirit turned their back on him, causing him to cry out in pain the words the psalmist wrote.

My God, My God, why have you departed from me (the english text wrote forsaken me)

it was then that he was spiritually separated (dead) from the father because of your and my sin.

By the time jesus said "it was finished" fellowship had been restored (he was spiritually alive again, in union with the father) which is why he said, it is finished, if he was still separated from the father, he would still have been screaming.

when he said it is finished (paid in full) he meant it, the penalty of sin was paid.

Ah, you aren't explaining it that well, yet. Let me ask you this: what do you believe actually atone for our sins? A "spiritual" death of Jesus or His very own physical blood? Where did Jesus bear our sins, as you see it? In His spirit or His body? As far as I can interpret you at the moment it's hard for me to gather else than you are suggesting that Jesus died spiritually and took our place in spiritual death, even though Jesus was without sin Heb.4:15;9:28. You are suggesting a literal separation between the Son and the Father, even though we have scriptures like John 8:28-29; 16:32.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Sounds like you are saying that eternal salvation is dependent upon works, believing, repenting, confessing, etc.

Eternal life is dependent on a true faith in Christ, as that faith will be an active one of obedience as the Holy Spirit that is in us can not deny Himself. The Lord gave those commands in the gospel books for a reason, and they were not just something to do that does not matter one way or the other.
For He is the one that said if repentance is not made then we will perish. So no repentance = no salvation
For He is the one that said confess Him before others, but if we deny Him He will deny us. Denying Him = no salvation

And this list goes on and Jesus even said to the Apostles He had many more to say to them but they could not handle it yet, because they were still struggling with the milk. The meat was then given by the Holy Spirit through Paul who went and broke things down, and clearly showed how a person can and can not walk in the faith. And Paul clearly said that those who walk in those disobedient ways in the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of heaven (eternal life).

 

[tribesman]

Eternal life is dependent on a true faith in Christ, as that faith will be an active one of obedience as the Holy Spirit that is in us can not deny Himself. The Lord gave those commands in the gospel books for a reason, and they were not just something to do that does not matter one way or the other.
For He is the one that said if repentance is not made then we will perish. So no repentance = no salvation
For He is the one that said confess Him before others, but if we deny Him He will deny us. Denying Him = no salvation

And this list goes on and Jesus even said to the Apostles He had many more to say to them but they could not handle it yet, because they were still struggling with the milk. The meat was then given by the Holy Spirit through Paul who went and broke things down, and clearly showed how a person can and can not walk in the faith. And Paul clearly said that those who walk in those disobedient ways in the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of heaven (eternal life).

Yes, a true saving faith in Christ, such faith as God gives as a gift, a faith in that the work and person of Jesus Christ alone is totally sufficient for our salvation and that it is this work alone which makes the difference between salvation and damnation for miserable lost sinners - not the work of the sinner. The work of God - not the work of man. Those who have not yet submitted to the righteousness of God (which is Christ Jesus) which is revealed in the Gospel are still going about to establish their own righteousness and are thus still lost. Thus, the first step to repentance is to submit to this and stop trusting all own efforts by becoming righteous through law-keeping. Have a nice day.

 

[dcontroversal]

Scripture says he was the propitions for the sins for not only the elect (our sins) but the sins of the whole world.

No doubt...pretty simple at the end of the day.....humanities sin debt from Adam to the last human born was covered under the blood...obviously the blood is only applied unto those who exercise faith.......!

 

[popeye]

your still not listening.

while jesus was on the cross. the father and spirit turned their back on him, causing him to cry out in pain the words the psalmist wrote.

My God, My God, why have you departed from me (the english text wrote forsaken me)

it was then that he was spiritually separated (dead) from the father because of your and my sin.

By the time jesus said "it was finished" fellowship had been restored (he was spiritually alive again, in union with the father) which is why he said, it is finished, if he was still separated from the father, he would still have been screaming.

when he said it is finished (paid in full) he meant it, the penalty of sin was paid.

father and spirit

How about "father only" as is implied in the account.

By the time jesus said "it was finished" fellowship had been restored (he was spiritually alive again, in union with the father) which is why he said, it is finished, if he was still separated from the father, he would still have been screaming.

Baseless conjecture. You literally made that up

 

[forsha]

Scripture says he was the propitions for the sins for not only the elect (our sins) but the sins of the whole world.

Your quote is found in 1 John 2: - If you check the word "WORLD" in this verse against Thayer's Greek interpretation, you will fine the world found in this verse to include believers only. The same also as in John 3:16, and John 1:29, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9 and 2 Cor 5:19. That's my view on 1 John 2, whats yours on John 6:39?

 

[popeye]

Ah, you aren't explaining it that well, yet. Let me ask you this: what do you believe actually atone for our sins? A "spiritual" death of Jesus or His very own physical blood? Where did Jesus bear our sins, as you see it? In His spirit or His body? As far as I can interpret you at the moment it's hard for me to gather else than you are suggesting that Jesus died spiritually and took our place in spiritual death, even though Jesus was without sin Heb.4:15;9:28. You are suggesting a literal separation between the Son and the Father, even though we have scriptures like John 8:28-29; 16:32.

Not only that,there is a basic sidestepping of the incarnate dimmension of the God man.

With the bonus bizarre rabbit trail of supposing a spirit can die

 

[forsha]

Because we are in the equation !!!


Did Jesus say if I repent of your sins, or did He say if we repent of our sins ?

Did Jesus say if I confess Me through you, or did He say if we confess Him to others ?

Did Jesus say to those healed I healed you, or did He say their faith healed them ?

Did Jesus say He getting baptized by John covers us, or did He command for us to get baptized ?

Did Jesus say He being born again covers us, or did He say we have to be born again to see eternal life ?

I am not a false teacher as I do not follow the teachings of a man made doctrine that did not exist in the first 500 years of the early church. I read the bible and study, asking in prayers to God to clearify subjects, and then let Him through the Holy Spirit guide me. You do keep accusing me by your own false standards as my heart is truly for God which is why I defend His word over man made doctrines that are taking away or adding to His word.
Taking away is just as bad as adding to, so to go and tell people they do not have to follow what the Lord said in the gospel books is false teaching. Which is something I do not do, because I defend what He said. I do not go around telling people they do not have to be baptized, they do not have to keep their confession in Him, and they do not have to forgive others. If I did then that would be false teaching, as He commanded all of those, and to deny His commands is to deny Him.

Our good works are dependent for us to live a good and satisfied life while we dwell here on this earth, but our eternal salvation is not dependent upon our good works. Most of the salvation scriptures are pertaining to a deliverance (salvation) as we live out our lives here in this world.

 

[yaright]

The new testament was written in Greek. "it is finished" translates to tetelestai. "Paid in full".

When Jesus was about to take his last breath on the cross he declared that his sacrifice as the perfect unblemished lamb of God paid humanities sin debt in full to the Father.

This is a powerful life changing assessment of the word "it" in this thread. This lends purpose in everything hidden in the path Jesus walked towards the Cross.

 

[popeye]

His purpose for coming down to this earth is explained in John 6:38-40, For I came down from heaven, nor to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. His words on the cross "it is finished", meaning that he had finished the work of carrying out his Father's will by redeeming all of those that his Father had given him. Those that he died for are secured for heaven without the loss of even one. If Jesus had died for the sins of all mankind, then all mankind will be with him in heaven, which I don't think will harmonize with other scriptures.

Those that he died for are secured for heaven without the loss of even one. If Jesus had died for the sins of all mankind, then all mankind will be with him in heaven, which I don't think will harmonize with other scriptures.

Predestination basically says God must conform to my little prism or it makes no sense.

Predestianation prism reminds me of a guy I knew that got in his car after work and it would go only in reverse.It locked up and would not move when in drive.

He drove all the way home in reverse,but actually the problem was in his mind. He forgot he applied his emergency brake when he arrived at work that morning.

 

[forsha]

This is not good doctrine because the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ must be preached in all the world in every nation and to every creature. Your witness of the cross is a partial gospel and not the one we have been given in the NT.

Brad, All scripture must harmonize, or you are not interpreting it right. How do you harmonize John 6:39 with the other scriptures? When you here scriptures that do not harmonize with the doctrine you teach, you should not just say "that's not a good doctrine" without explaining why it is not a good doctrine.