"It is finished." What is the "it?"
- Thread starter santuzza
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E
lol.. not sure why people think this is so hard. It is not some magic science equation.
when My sin entered the body of Christ, his spirit was separated from God.
that is what Caused Jesus to cry out in pain (you seem to be skipping this part)
Jesus did take our place in spiritual death. Thats how I can be born again, because he suffered what I deserve (separation from God)
Whoever does not come to Christ will not be born, and be separated from God (spiritually dead) forever, because they have not been born again.
Jesus said it is finished (literally paid in full) Did Jesus lie?
Jesus's body died. That is all we actually know. Some talk about Jesus's death as a doctrinal equation where a ticket was issued, they went up to the next window, paid the debt and it was all done. To me this sounds insane.
What has become sane to me is my simple life reality. How do you know God loves you? How do you know you are forgiven, you can trust Him, that he has your best interests at heart?
You can because he became like you are a human. He understands parents, friends, family, work, enemies, food, sleep, the whole shooting match. He walked up to his enemies and said, you can kill me and I will forgive you. The worst that can be done to me will be forgiven. Anything you do will never be bigger than this. He really does understand. Now this is an emotional, full life statement of intent, reality. It is like your friend saying he will bail you out at your worst moment and doing it, except he is God, and your worst moment is dying. But this is all done so you who are loved, who are forgiven can learn to spread the news, we are loved. Because we are loved, and we love, we can walk in his ways.
The way people are talking here is like they prefer the rules, invented by men, than the stunning reality of who and what God is and did. I do not care about the theology, I am just stunned by my Lord, how he broke in and told me, I am not alone, I am loved. This in transformation, rebirth, anointing, freedom.
What has become sane to me is my simple life reality. How do you know God loves you? How do you know you are forgiven, you can trust Him, that he has your best interests at heart?
You can because he became like you are a human. He understands parents, friends, family, work, enemies, food, sleep, the whole shooting match. He walked up to his enemies and said, you can kill me and I will forgive you. The worst that can be done to me will be forgiven. Anything you do will never be bigger than this. He really does understand. Now this is an emotional, full life statement of intent, reality. It is like your friend saying he will bail you out at your worst moment and doing it, except he is God, and your worst moment is dying. But this is all done so you who are loved, who are forgiven can learn to spread the news, we are loved. Because we are loved, and we love, we can walk in his ways.
The way people are talking here is like they prefer the rules, invented by men, than the stunning reality of who and what God is and did. I do not care about the theology, I am just stunned by my Lord, how he broke in and told me, I am not alone, I am loved. This in transformation, rebirth, anointing, freedom.
F
As long as you attach all of the salvation scriptures to eternal, you will never have the scriptures harmonize. There is a good and comforting life that we can live here on this earth if we choose to do good works for God. Deut 30:19 , God said he set before us blessing and cursing and for us to choose life that you may live. There is some choosing we have to do by our good works to live that good and peaceful life here in this world. In 2 Pet Simon Peter is addressing this letter to "them that have obtained like precious faith". In verse 9 of chapter 3, Peter is telling his brethren, that the LORD is longsuffering to "us-ward" (which includes himself), not willing that any should perish (lose their fellowship with God) by not repenting when they sin. I don't know where you are getting the idea that the Apostles were not weaned from the milk of the word.
Who knew what he was doing? Jesus. Who is part of the trinity? Jesus. So if He says it is finished, guess what, it is finished.
The definer of what reality is is the source, especially if there are options involved. There is a caviate with Jesus, he may be speaking about his part of being alive, and this was accepting that death had come, and he should now relax.
I say this because of words like, there are people here who will not die until they see the kingdom come with power, which was the transfiguration, but could be read otherwise. But how much does it matter? Not a lot.
E
John 6 is simple whoever believes in Jesus will never perish, never die, never hunger and thirst, live forever, and be risen.
But you must seek the food which endures forever, and not the food which perishes. (have faith in Christ)
as for romans 9. Look at the OT quote to get context. It does not say what you think it means.
But you must seek the food which endures forever, and not the food which perishes. (have faith in Christ)
as for romans 9. Look at the OT quote to get context. It does not say what you think it means.
E
Jesus said, paid in full (his literal words) it was finished, because it was finished,
If he came off the cross that moment, we would still be saved who trust in him, However, if he left as he did when he ascended, what hope could we have? where would the firstfruits be? How could we be assured the father accepted his payment in full.
Again, Your making no sense, if physical death was payment, then jesus died in vein, we all die physically so we could pay for our own sin.
He is the second adam. Adam was created perfect (I am born dead to God) Jesus was born perfect.
Adam died because of his own sin, and that death was passed to all mankind, thus all are dead and must be made alive.
Jesus died when my sin was placed on his body, (not of his own sin) so I could be made alive, and be in Christ.
If your in adam, your dead (even though you are physically alive) because that was the punishment for sin.
Physical death is a natural result of sin, not the punishment.
If he came off the cross that moment, we would still be saved who trust in him, However, if he left as he did when he ascended, what hope could we have? where would the firstfruits be? How could we be assured the father accepted his payment in full.
Again, Your making no sense, if physical death was payment, then jesus died in vein, we all die physically so we could pay for our own sin.
He is the second adam. Adam was created perfect (I am born dead to God) Jesus was born perfect.
Adam died because of his own sin, and that death was passed to all mankind, thus all are dead and must be made alive.
Jesus died when my sin was placed on his body, (not of his own sin) so I could be made alive, and be in Christ.
If your in adam, your dead (even though you are physically alive) because that was the punishment for sin.
Physical death is a natural result of sin, not the punishment.
F
Psalms 14:2-3, The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. This is who God had to choose from and then had to make provision to redeem them back by sending his Son to be a sacrifice for their sins. If God, as you think, chose those that he had foreknowledge of their good works, then that would be an "eternal salvation by works". It is not of works, lest any man should boast.