Hebrews 6:1-6

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Delivery

Guest
#21
Problem once again with using this passage from Hebrews is that it is saying those who refuse to repent and come back to the Lord are putting Him to an open shame for themselves. Not that it is impossible to fall away and not end up with salvation. Read verse 6 real closely;

[SUP]6[/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

They are doing the shame to themselves by refusing to repent of their ways, as they believe one of two things; either they don't have to repent or that they love darkness more then light. You are right on the first half though that true believers do not have to worry about repenting again and the laying on of hands as they will be walking properly in the faith, and a one time baptism is all one needs.
But the bible makes it clear by Jesus, Holy Spirit, Paul, and James that many will fall away from the faith and they will not end up with eternal life unless they come back to the Lord.



Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.



James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
This passage in Hebrews is not saying that those who refuse to repent and come back to the Lord are the ones crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame. For you to say that just shows how people can so twist and pervert what the scripture actually says because they don't want to have to accept it. The biblical teaching goes against their personal theology. This is what the verse say:

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It says, it is impossible to renew people to repentance who have fallen away. Hello! Don't try to twist the scriptures just because the scriptures, go against your personal dogma.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#22
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2[/SUP] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And this will we do, if God permit.

( Now, why would the writer of Hebrews tell us to leave the principles of the doctrine of Christ, and repentance of our sins and of Faith toward God, and of baptisms, and the resurrection from the dead, etc.? After all, isn't that what Christianity is all about, the doctrine of Christ, Faith toward God,etc.? At first glance it looks like he's telling us to leave or move away from the doctrine of Christ. Maybe, the answer can be found in the next 3 verses.)

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(Oh yeah. Now, I see. What he is saying is that we shouldn't keep preaching the message of Salvation, The principles or basics of our belief in Jesus, to people who are already saved, because if anybody actually could fall away and lose their Salvation it would be impossible to renew them again to repentance because Jesus would have to suffer and die and be crucified for their sins again, in order for them to be renewed to repentance again.)

It shows that this doctrine that you can lose your Salvation by sinning and committing iniquitous acts, and then repenting again and getting re-saved, then sinning and losing your Salvation, then repenting and getting it back, then sinning and losing then repenting and regaining, etc., etc., ad infinitum, that the NOSAS people preach, is a false doctrine. If you fall away and lose your Salvation, you are lost forever, you can't get it back, even though you seek it carefully with tears, like Esau, who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Stop trying to lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works. Once you've repented and have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior you don't have to keep doing it over and over again. It's already done. you're saved forever. Jesus' one blood Sacrifice for you has washed all your sins off the record forever. To say otherwise is a slap in the face of what Jesus did for you. Because you're saying that His one blood sacrifice for you, His suffering and His being crucified for you, and all that He did for you was not sufficient enough to save you. You want Him to suffer some more for your sins, thereby, crucifying to yourself the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame.

Once saved, always saved. So quit trying to repent of sins that are already forgiven you by faith in Christ Jesus. Just accept the fact that you are saved forever and go on unto perfection (because the blood of Jesus makes you perfect by faith) and don't let others put you under condemnation for all the miner mistakes, sins, and shortcomings you might have. Don't let false brethren unawares come in, to privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage of the law. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


Agree! I think it also means to move on to the meat. Learn that Church has been around since the beginning of time. Learn why Jesus can take a male as his bride and not be considered a homosexual. Learn what it means to be crucified with Christ... All the really cool things about being a Christian that nobody talks about... because we continue to argue over the must fundamental easy to understand doctrines.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#23
This passage in Hebrews is not saying that those who refuse to repent and come back to the Lord are the ones crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame. For you to say that just shows how people can so twist and pervert what the scripture actually says because they don't want to have to accept it. The biblical teaching goes against their personal theology. This is what the verse say:

[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It says, it is impossible to renew people to repentance who have fallen away. Hello! Don't try to twist the scriptures just because the scriptures, go against your personal dogma.

No it is not twisting it, because like you point out it says it is impossible for them who have fallen away to repent because they to their own do the crucifying. Not because Christ will not allow them to come back to Him in repentance, they are doing it to themselves as verse 6 clearly says. I know you don't like the second half of verse 6 since you did not bold and underline that part that says who is doing the wrong as it says to themselves.

Go read James as his final two scriptures talk about a brother or sister in Christ that falls away from the faith.
James clearly says only if they are brought back to the Lord will their soul be saved. The soul can only be destroyed by God in the lake of fire, as scripture clearly shows (Matthew 10:28).
Also read Jude as his whole epistle is about salvation, and the things for believers to watch out for that can lead a person astray and fall from the faith......
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#24
No it is not twisting it, because like you point out it says it is impossible for them who have fallen away to repent because they to their own do the crucifying. Not because Christ will not allow them to come back to Him in repentance, they are doing it to themselves as verse 6 clearly says. I know you don't like the second half of verse 6 since you did not bold and underline that part that says who is doing the wrong as it says to themselves.

Go read James as his final two scriptures talk about a brother or sister in Christ that falls away from the faith.
James clearly says only if they are brought back to the Lord will their soul be saved. The soul can only be destroyed by God in the lake of fire, as scripture clearly shows (Matthew 10:28).
Also read Jude as his whole epistle is about salvation, and the things for believers to watch out for that can lead a person astray and fall from the faith......
Yes Ken, you do twist and twist and twist and twist-----
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#25
Grace and law are mutually exclusive, you cannot be under both.

To be circumcised is to be under law, which necessarily excludes one from grace.


To be under the law is to be condemned (Gal 3:10).

Yes I know that but my point was that Paul starts off Galatians showing that they did once walk in the gospel of Christ, and then turned away to another gospel do to false teaching. Some want to overlook those scriptures and say they were never in the faith, or take and say they did not lose salvation. Yet two things a person needs for salvation through Christ Paul says they no longer had either. No longer under God's grace, and no remission of sins from Christ....
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#26
Yes Ken, you do twist and twist and twist and twist-----

No it is only seen as twisting by those who have been brought under a false OSAS doctrine that was not taught in the early church. I think with all this going on again I am going to have to go and repost what the early church mainly taught for the first 500 years........
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#27
No it is only seen as twisting by those who have been brought under a false OSAS doctrine that was not taught in the early church. I think with all this going on again I am going to have to go and repost what the early church mainly taught for the first 500 years........

You do that Ken.
Be sure to post ALL you sources---Names of teachers and documents and where we can access them.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#28
[h=1]What Early Church Fathers Said about Eternal Security[/h]

“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For ‘cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” (Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, A.D.110)
“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” (Didache, A.D.140)
“That eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition.” (Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1, A.D.156)
“Christ shall not die again in behalf of those who now commit sin, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom. And therefore it was that Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.’” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2 A.D. 180)
“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwillingly. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” (Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 A.D. 204)
“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)
“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)
“He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)
“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law] and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death—you will by no means be saved.” (Justin Martyr, A.D. 160)
“Rather, we should fear ourselves, lest perchance, after we have come to the knowledge of Christ, if we do those things displeasing to God, we obtain not further forgiveness for sin, but are shut out of His kingdom.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)
“He who hopes for everlasting rest knows also that the entrance to it is toilsome and narrow. So let him who has once received the gospel not turn back.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“God gives forgiveness of past sins. However, as to future sins, each one procures this for himself. He does this by repenting, by condemning past deeds, and by begging the Father to blot them out.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“The world returned to sin…and so it is destined to fire. So is the man who after baptism renews his sins.” (Tertullian, A.D. 198)
“Rather they must be preserved. It is not the actual attainment, but the perfecting, that keeps a man for God.” (Cyprian, A.D. 250)
“A son who deserts his father in order not to pay him obedience is considered deserving of being disinherited and having his name removed forever from his family.” (Lactaintius, A.D. 304)
“He who sins after baptism, unless he forsakes his sins, will be condemned to Gehenna.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look stedfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God, which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all such as would be converted unto Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 7:33-36)
“Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 2:7, 8)
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#29


“Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 2:7, 8)
“On account of envy, Aaron and Miriam had to make their abode without the camp. Envy brought down Dathan and Abiram alive to Hades.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 4:20, 21)
“Having obtained good proof that thy mind is fixed in God as upon an immovable rock, I loudly glorify [His name] that I have been thought worthy [to behold] thy blameless face which may I ever enjoy in God! I entreat thee, by the grace with which thou art clothed, to press forward in thy course, and to exhort all that they may be saved. Maintain thy position with all care, both in the flesh and spirit.” (The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp, 1:1)





Justin Martyr- c. 100/114AD – c. 162/168 AD. He was another early Christian apologist (defender) of the faith and was martyred by
beheading. His works represent the earliest surviving Christian apologies of notable size:

Man acts by his own free will and not by fate. (20)
We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered
according to the merit of each man’s actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be
predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless
humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions-whatever
they may be…. For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely
created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable
to do anything else than what he was made for. (21)

But that you may not have a pretext for saying that Christ must have been crucified, and that those who transgressed must have
been among your nation, and that the matter could not have been otherwise, I said briefly by anticipation, that God, wishing men
and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness; possessing reason, that they may know by whom
they are created, and through whom they, not existing formerly, do now exist; and with a law that they should be judged by Him, if
they do anything contrary to right reason: and of ourselves we, men and angels, shall be convicted of having acted sinfully, unless
we repent beforehand. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it
foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wicked], but not because God had created them so.
 
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Delivery

Guest
#30
No it is not twisting it, because like you point out it says it is impossible for them who have fallen away to repent because they to their own do the crucifying. Not because Christ will not allow them to come back to Him in repentance, they are doing it to themselves as verse 6 clearly says. I know you don't like the second half of verse 6 since you did not bold and underline that part that says who is doing the wrong as it says to themselves.

Go read James as his final two scriptures talk about a brother or sister in Christ that falls away from the faith.
James clearly says only if they are brought back to the Lord will their soul be saved. The soul can only be destroyed by God in the lake of fire, as scripture clearly shows (Matthew 10:28).
Also read Jude as his whole epistle is about salvation, and the things for believers to watch out for that can lead a person astray and fall from the faith......
There you go again. the first sentence of your post: "it is impossible for those who have fallen away to repent". But that's not what I said nor what the scripture says. It doesn't say it is impossible to repent. It says it is impossible to renew them to repentance. The reason it is impossible to renew them to repentance is because in order for somebody to need to be forgiven again for their sins another blood sacrifice would have to be made for them. It means that Jesus would have to come back in the flesh and suffer and die for them a second time. That's why it says they would be crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame. You do have to repent of your sins, but you only have to do it once and then your sins are forgiven forever. It's not something you have to keep repeating or else Jesus would have to keep repeating His suffering and dieing for you.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#31
now, if people could just get to salvation first, before trying to post everything concerning those who are saved.....


claiming promises that they don't have yet,

.....

i.e. there's no worry about laying again a foundation, nor of proceeding from the principles

as long as salvation is still a future if ever accomplishment......



one of the biggest tricks/deceptions of the enemy is getting people to think they are saved, ...... and they get patted on the back by others likewise tricked.....

and they rebel against those who yahweh sends to tell them the truth!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#32
There you go again. the first sentence of your post: "it is impossible for those who have fallen away to repent". But that's not what I said nor what the scripture says. It doesn't say it is impossible to repent. It says it is impossible to renew them to repentance. The reason it is impossible to renew them to repentance is because in order for somebody to need to be forgiven again for their sins another blood sacrifice would have to be made for them. It means that Jesus would have to come back in the flesh and suffer and die for them a second time. That's why it says they would be crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame. You do have to repent of your sins, but you only have to do it once and then your sins are forgiven forever. It's not something you have to keep repeating or else Jesus would have to keep repeating His suffering and dieing for you.

Same difference for if the person falls away from the faith the only way they can come back to the Lord is through repentance. You are interjecting to much technicality into that reasoning, and no another blood sacrifice is not needed because it is not saying Christ would have to be crucified again. It is saying they think they would be crucifying Him again to themselves, meaning they are doing the shameful act by continuing in their sinful ways and trampling His blood. The only people who trample His blood are those who continue to willfully sin, or those who believe a one time repentance takes care of even their future sins when the bible says those have to be confessed to receive remission (1 John 1:9).
I just posted quotes form early church fathers in posts 28 and 29 that shows OSAS was not taught in the early church, and of those 3 quotes are from Barnabas who is mentioned in the bible......
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#33
...Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not ....
I would further add that Paul is exhorting the recipients of the epistle to go onto perfection by meditating and feeding upon Christ, our Great High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek...Mark 4v8, Luke 6v47,48, Heb 3v1, 5v6, 12v1,2

Yahweh Shalom
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#34
Yes I know that but my point was that Paul starts off Galatians showing that they did once walk in the gospel of Christ, and then turned away to another gospel do to false teaching.
Paul was dealing with Judaizers who had come in among them and were telling them they had to be circumcised to be saved.

"Falling from grace" is returning to the Law (circumcision) for righteousness (salvation), which automatically excludes salvation by grace through faith, for they are mutually exclusive (2Pe 3:17).

It does not mean anyone has "lost" salvation, it means they cannot be saved by law keeping (circumcision), and anyone who submits to the law of circumcision has placed himself under the whole law and excluded himself from grace, the only means of salvation (Eph 2:8).

Anyone who ignored Paul and submitted to circumcision for salvation showed they were not really saved because they do not obey the gospel.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#35
No it is only seen as twisting by those who have been brought under a false OSAS doctrine that was not taught in the early church. I think with all this going on again I am going to have to go and repost what the early church mainly taught for the first 500 years........
The NT writings are not the early church?
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#37
[/B]Surely you realize that it is the Scriptures which are the truth.
I don't know any of those fellows that Ken trust in, But I do know Jesus and trust what He said.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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#38
I think the term Righteousness describes the perfect Love thing best for me. Righteousness means A right relationship with God.

In that "Relationship" I see it. God is the perfect one in the relationship, and I aspire to be like Him as He lives now in me thru the Holy Spirit. In any relationship do mistakes happen? Yes! Yet as a continue to aspire I get better at it. He has all the tools for me to succeed 100% but I don't always apply myself to every provision he offers. So I go on and learn more. To Learn means to change a behavior. So i become more and more consecrated to My Lord and His demeanor and nature translates into my personality and character, and behavior until I am sanctified or fully run by Him.

Have I lost my human options to make mistakes? NO! will I make mistakes when I didn't even mean to? Probably. And now that "Perfect relationship" brings me back round to center again thru His mercy Grace and forgiveness.

We are imperfect people. But the conclusion to that is not that I am not fully His or that any part of me is lacking victory, at all.. I just need to continue my faithfulness in Him, in that ongoing ever-interacting relationship.
 
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Delivery

Guest
#39
I'd like to make one or two last points here. It's the main point of this post that some people just don't seem to get or purposely ignore.

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Hebrews 9:22

Jesus' blood sacrifice for us purges us from all sin. This is how God ordained it from the beginning. That's why He instituted the sacrifice of calves and goats under the law of Moses for the remission of the sins of the people, and they had to come back every year to have their sins forgiven again, by sacrificing bulls and goats again. But:



[SUP]1[/SUP] the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[SUP]2[/SUP] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[SUP]3[/SUP] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should (permanently) take away sins. Hebrews 10:1-4

So Jesus offered up Himself as the final blood sacrifice for our sins.


[SUP]10[/SUP] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Once and for all, you don't have to keep coming back year after year to continually ask Jesus to forgive your sins and to save you. That's what it means to crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame. His one blood sacrifice was enough to save you forever. once saved always saved.)
[SUP]11[/SUP] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices,(of bulls and goats) which can never take away sins:
[SUP]12[/SUP] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13[/SUP] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14[/SUP] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

(His one blood sacrifice for you automatically makes you perfect by faith. Righteousness is imputed upon you by faith. And it is forever. It is not something that you can lose and then have to get re-saved again. In order to lose your Salvation and get re-saved Jesus would have to come again in the flesh and suffer again for your sins. So the ones who believe you can lose your Salvation by not having good enough works or by making a mistake or by disobeying one of the 10 commandments or whatever, and who believe you have to repent again and get re-saved again are the ones crucifying the Son of God afresh and putting Him to an open shame. That's exactly what the bible teaches and exactly what the book of Hebrews is about. The ones who fail to see this point even though it's written in black and white and staring them in the face are either plain stupid or they are whom the Apostle Paul refers to as Natural men who can't receive the things of the spirit of God because they are foolishness unto them.

A few more from Hebrews:

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

[SUP]25[/SUP] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[SUP]26[/SUP] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SUP]27[/SUP] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SUP]28[/SUP] So Christ wasonce offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15[/SUP] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#40
The NT writings are not the early church?
[/B]Surely you realize that it is the Scriptures which are the truth.

Actually the words of God that we have as our bible is what was taught in the early church, as the main 11 lead the early church and those who learned under them and also walked side by side with them that the Lord appointed in Luke 10:1 taught personally what we have now.

Each one of them was lead by the Holy Spirit in all truth (John 16:13), so to come out and say those who were recognized as Apostles in the bible, their writings do not matter is being lead by those who teach private interpretations that the bible warns about. It says no scriptures are of private interpretation, because we have the Holy Spirit and the writings from the Apostles to tell us and show us what was truly taught.

If Paul, Peter, James, John, Mark, Luke, Matthew, and Jude's writings are valid, then the writings of the other Apostles are just as valid. Barnabas was recognized as an Apostle and walked with Paul, John, and Mark. Never once was he shown to be a false teacher but only taught the same as those others we recognize. The early church was lead by the Apostles and the truth, so if there quotes show that a doctrine was not taught then we know that doctrine is false teaching.

Scriptures are truth, and they also say do not lean on man's teaching but to seek in prayer to God the answers and the Holy Spirit will give and direct us in all truth just as He did them in the early church......