Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

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skylove7

Guest
Evil! Is only what the soul chooses! I give anyone in Gods light..the benefit of doubt,.... if they even CHOOSE to speak on CC.
And, remember...there are horrid sites to be on....yet people choose CC...agreeable to you?,...or disagreeable...we ALL choose CC to love God remember that friend. Right or wrong in ones opinion....we ALL love God! And we ALL deserve to be here!
 
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3Scoreand10

Guest
Actually, rejecting the complete, sufficient sacrifice of Christ and interjecting yourself and your abilities would qualify as pure evil, calls Jesus a liar and is a doctrine with no power to save and is double cursed to hell......good luck with your works Jason and rejection of the work of Jesus which satisfied the Heavenly Father.......tragic.......!
Some people have just got to help because they do not beleive that the God that created everything is strong enough to keep them.

There is NOTHING I can do to justify myself before a Holy God.
My hope for eternal life is based on what Jesus did on the cross.
I place my faith in Him, not in what I do or don't do.
To believe otherwise is to call God a liar and be doomed to everlasting Hell.
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
All Christians differ on the OSAS topic, it has always been the case and it always will be. So much scripture to interpret and everyone interprets differently. One thing to remember is we are all brothers and sisters and love should be the overriding theme.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Evil! Is only what the soul chooses! I give anyone in Gods light..the benefit of doubt,.... if they even CHOOSE to speak on CC.
And, remember...there are horrid sites to be on....yet people choose CC...agreeable to you?,...or disagreeable...we ALL choose CC to love God remember that friend. Right or wrong in ones opinion....we ALL love God! And we ALL deserve to be here!

Exactly right we all have the right to be here and speak about God and His Holy Word, and just because one's opinion differs from another does not deserve for others to constantly spew false allegations at others that they never said. This is one of the main issues I have with being on here, is the small few that do this to others who do not agree with them.
That type of attitude needs to be prayed to God for them to help them through the Holy Spirit to soften their heart and stop having such a hardened heart toward others with different opinions...

God bless you for posting this........
 
S

skylove7

Guest
Yes! And though Joe may disagree with Bob? Guess what....I'm going to love Joe and Bob as brothers because it makes me feel all good and joyous inside when I love everybody! Lol...I dunno sue me somebody! I cant stop loving and loving! I'm a tree hugging nerd! Lol...ignore me from this thread,..I'm a loving dweeb! See ya in heaven! Love you all!
 
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Here we go again with the false accusations. That's what I am talking about.
As I said many times before, I do not believe in Works Salvationism.

Anyways, may the Lord's love shine upon you today.
Jason...do you believe you can lose it? YES

If you believe you can LOSE it then YOU must do something to GET IT BACK and OR KEEP IT....simple deductive reasoning.....

The bible teaches ETERNAL life by belief...NOT temporary life by belief
The bible teaches that JESUS died UNTO SIN ONCE for ALL
The bible teaches the Heavenly FATHER was satisfied with the OFFERING of the BODY of CHRIST ONCE FOR ALL
The BIBLE teaches a PERSON is SAVED, SEALED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED (positionally) in CHRIST
The BIBLE teaches that a born again CHILD will NEVR BE FORSAKEN nor LEFT
The BIBLE teaches that if CHRIST has begin a GOOD WORK in YOU HE WILL FINISH IT
The BIBLE teaches we are in the FATHER'S HAND, IN the SON'S hand and SEALED by the HOLY SPIRIT which is the prepayment of our ETERNAL INHERITANCE....

Bro...your view is flawed, contrary to the truth and at the end of the day if one can lose it they MUST DO SOMETHING to GET IT BACK or KEEP IT no matter how you slice and dice.........

By your own words a few days ago you stated a man can live a very sinful life and as long as they GO OUT on GOOD TERMS with GOD they are saved....how about this......they NEVER LOST SALVATION to BEGIN WITH!
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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I think that the main problem many have with OSAS is that Calvin taught it. After correctly determining that Calvin is NOT worth hearing; they reject everything he said; even though OSAS is one of the few things Calvin got right.
 
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What Early Church Fathers Said about Eternal Security



“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For ‘cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” (Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, A.D.110)
“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” (Didache, A.D.140)
“That eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition.” (Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1, A.D.156)
“Christ shall not die again in behalf of those who now commit sin, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom. And therefore it was that Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.’” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2 A.D. 180)
“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwillingly. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” (Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 A.D. 204)
“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)
“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)
“He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)
“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law] and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death—you will by no means be saved.” (Justin Martyr, A.D. 160)
“Rather, we should fear ourselves, lest perchance, after we have come to the knowledge of Christ, if we do those things displeasing to God, we obtain not further forgiveness for sin, but are shut out of His kingdom.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)
“He who hopes for everlasting rest knows also that the entrance to it is toilsome and narrow. So let him who has once received the gospel not turn back.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“God gives forgiveness of past sins. However, as to future sins, each one procures this for himself. He does this by repenting, by condemning past deeds, and by begging the Father to blot them out.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“The world returned to sin…and so it is destined to fire. So is the man who after baptism renews his sins.” (Tertullian, A.D. 198)
“Rather they must be preserved. It is not the actual attainment, but the perfecting, that keeps a man for God.” (Cyprian, A.D. 250)
“A son who deserts his father in order not to pay him obedience is considered deserving of being disinherited and having his name removed forever from his family.” (Lactaintius, A.D. 304)
“He who sins after baptism, unless he forsakes his sins, will be condemned to Gehenna.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look stedfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God, which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all such as would be converted unto Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 7:33-36)
“Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 2:7, 8)
Hey Kenneth, the men you quote were not inspired and equate to nothing more than commentaries....it is not wise to base one's belief on what some group of men believed.....not to mention that John said that many deceivers and anti-Christ's were already present in the 1st century and forward......their view proves nothing that could be stood on as the gospel truth.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Hey Kenneth, the men you quote were not inspired and equate to nothing more than commentaries....it is not wise to base one's belief on what some group of men believed.....not to mention that John said that many deceivers and anti-Christ's were already present in the 1st century and forward......their view proves nothing that could be stood on as the gospel truth.

They were all the early church leaders, and the one I underlined is in the bible Dcon mentioned as one of the Apostles.
So to say they are not inspired is wrong, and second they are direct quotes from them and not commentaries.....

Barnabas

Acts 4:36, Acts 15:22, Acts 15:37-39 to name a couple............
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
Jason, I won't deal with the "martyrdom" comments in your post, but I will deal with your list of "OSAS dark secrets" and explain to you why they are biblical truth, not the lies you want to make them out to be.

#1. Future Sins are Forgiven.
Paul writes in Ephesians of our forgiveness at salvation, when our sins are removed from us "as far as east is from west" (Psalm 103:12).

Ephesians 1, NASB
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8(a) which He lavished on us.

You love to quote 1 John 1 to "prove" lost salvation through sin following the giving of the Holy Spirit, but you misunderstand the passage. Ephesians 1:6-8 establishes that we are forever in Christ once we believe. 1 John 1:5-10 speaks relationally, as father to son. When a son wrongs his father, the relationship is damaged, but it does not severe it. A son is always a son regardless of whether he has a loving relationship with his father or not. So it is with us in Christ. Our sin hinders the relationship. It does not severe it. We are "adopted" -- uioqesia (huiothesia),the Roman legal term for adoption. It is no accident it is used. Under the law of uioqesia, an adopted son could not be disowned, though a natural son could be. Get it?

#2. Sin only leads to Physical Death and Not Spiritual Death.
For the believer, sin will not result in spiritual death -- ever!

1 John 3
14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

The phrase "passed out of death" is the Greek metabaino qanatoß, metabaino thanatos, meaning "depart from the realm of physical death." It couldn't be any more plain than that.

#3. You can be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved.
As pointed out above, "fellowship" and "relationship" are different. You can be out of fellowship, but the relationship cannot be broken. God would not say He has "adopted" us if the relationship could be broken.

#4. Not Confessing one Serious Sin before you die will not Send You to Hell.
God has forgiven all our sins through Christ on the cross. Thinking you have to remember every sin you ever committed -- and I'll guarantee, no one can -- or that an "unconfessed sin condemns us" is completely unbiblical.

Colossians 2
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

If any sin could break God's promise, He would not say He has made us alive together with Him. He wouldnt' say He has forgiven us our transgressions. He wouldn't say He has canceled the "certificate of debt." He wouldn't say He has "taken it out of the way ... nailed it to the cross." If you can read these words and still believe anything must "do" or "say" something to "keep" your salvation, you haven't truly read God's word with any understanding at all.

#5. Once a Son Always a Son or You Cannot be Unborn.
As I've explained above, the use of the word uioqesia (huiothesia) is deliberate, beingthe Roman legal term for adoption. Under the law of uioqesia, an adopted son could not be disowned. We are uioqesia, and God would be a liar, He would break man's law and His own, if He "disowned" us.

#6. Sin Cannot break the seal of the Spirit.
This is a ludicrous inclusion in your list. You can't find a biblical verse that says it sin breaks any seal placed on us by God. Claiming you have one, Jason, makes you a liar.

#7. We are sinners and nobody can be perfect.
Again, you have no verse to post that proves the antithesis of this statement you attribute to those who believe in eternal security. The fact of the matter is, its true, to the extent we are not perfect, and we do sin. A man who claims to be "perfect" is a liar. Solomon knew that.

Ecclesiastes 7
20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

John knew that.

1 John 1
8
If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

You will, of course, claim John speaks to unbelievers. That, too, is a lie. Verse 3 of the same book makes that clear. "[W]hat we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ." He speaks to believers. Believers sin. John affirms it. You deny it. You are at odds with the Father.

So, I'm done here, Jason. God bless. May you see the Light you have for so long refused to walk in.
 
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They were all the early church leaders, and the one I underlined is in the bible Dcon mentioned as one of the Apostles.
So to say they are not inspired is wrong, and second they are direct quotes from them and not commentaries.....

Barnabas

Acts 4:36, Acts 15:22, Acts 15:37-39 to name a couple............
Like I said...nothing more than commentaries and the last time I checked the quote from Barnabus came from which inspired book that made the canon of scripture?
 
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AMEN, true and obvious for sure..........!

Jason, I won't deal with the "martyrdom" comments in your post, but I will deal with your list of "OSAS dark secrets" and explain to you why they are biblical truth, not the lies you want to make them out to be.

Paul writes in Ephesians of our forgiveness at salvation, when our sins are removed from us "as far as east is from west" (Psalm 103:12).
Ephesians 1, NASB
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8(a) which He lavished on us.

You love to quote 1 John 1 to "prove" lost salvation through sin following the giving of the Holy Spirit, but you misunderstand the passage. Ephesians 1:6-8 establishes that we are forever in Christ once we believe. 1 John 1:5-10 speaks relationally, as father to son. When a son wrongs his father, the relationship is damaged, but it does not severe it. A son is always a son regardless of whether he has a loving relationship with his father or not. So it is with us in Christ. Our sin hinders the relationship. It does not severe it. We are "adopted" -- uioqesia (huiothesia),the Roman legal term for adoption. It is no accident it is used. Under the law of uioqesia, an adopted son could not be disowned, though a natural son could be. Get it?

For the believer, sin will not result in spiritual death -- ever!

1 John 3
14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

The phrase "passed out of death" is the Greek metabaino qanatoß, metabaino thanatos, meaning "depart from the realm of physical death." It couldn't be any more plain than that.

As pointed out above, "fellowship" and "relationship" are different. You can be out of fellowship, but the relationship cannot be broken. God would not say He has "adopted" us if the relationship could be broken.

God has forgiven all our sins through Christ on the cross. Thinking you have to remember every sin you ever committed -- and I'll guarantee, no one can -- or that an "unconfessed sin condemns us" is completely unbiblical.
Colossians 2
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

If any sin could break God's promise, He would not say He has made us alive together with Him. He wouldnt' say He has forgiven us our transgressions. He wouldn't say He has canceled the "certificate of debt." He wouldn't say He has "taken it out of the way ... nailed it to the cross." If you can read these words and still believe anything must "do" or "say" something to "keep" your salvation, you haven't truly read God's word with any understanding at all.

As I've explained above, the use of the word uioqesia (huiothesia) is deliberate, beingthe Roman legal term for adoption. Under the law of uioqesia, an adopted son could not be disowned. We are uioqesia, and God would be a liar, He would break man's law and His own, if He "disowned" us.

This is a ludicrous inclusion in your list. You can't find a biblical verse that says it sin breaks any seal placed on us by God. Claiming you have one, Jason, makes you a liar.

Again, you have no verse to post that proves the antithesis of this statement you attribute to those who believe in eternal security. The fact of the matter is, its true, to the extent we are not perfect, and we do sin. A man who claims to be "perfect" is a liar. Solomon knew that.
Ecclesiastes 7
20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

John knew that.
1 John 1
8
If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

You will, of course, claim John speaks to unbelievers. That, too, is a lie. Verse 3 of the same book makes that clear. "[W]hat we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ." He speaks to believers. Believers sin. John affirms it. You deny it. You are at odds with the Father.

So, I'm done here, Jason. God bless. May you see the Light you have for so long refused to walk in.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Like I said...nothing more than commentaries and the last time I checked the quote from Barnabus came from which inspired book that made the canon of scripture?

So because the first early Apostles mentioned in the bible who had other writings don't count just because they are not in the bible. That is ridiculous because those writings show exactly how they taught, which gives understanding to the context being spoke of in the scriptures, so that there is no private interpretation going on. Because private interpretation leads to false teachings such as those that were not taught by the apostles in the bible. Barnabas in his writings show clearly it was not taught, and he was as the bible shows always with Paul, Mark, and/or John. To call his other writings not inspired is ridiculous at best, as you do realize that their are many other writings from Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and others that are not in the bible as well.
Will you discard all of the other writings from the original 12 as well just because they are not in the bible???

Their direct quotes tell you exactly what they taught, and the OSAS doctrine can be researched and shown to not have existed in the early church teachings.............
 
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So because the first early Apostles mentioned in the bible who had other writings don't count just because they are not in the bible. That is ridiculous because those writings show exactly how they taught, which gives understanding to the context being spoke of in the scriptures, so that there is no private interpretation going on. Because private interpretation leads to false teachings such as those that were not taught by the apostles in the bible. Barnabas in his writings show clearly it was not taught, and he was as the bible shows always with Paul, Mark, and/or John. To call his other writings not inspired is ridiculous at best, as you do realize that their are many other writings from Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and others that are not in the bible as well.
Will you discard all of the other writings from the original 12 as well just because they are not in the bible???

Their direct quotes tell you exactly what they taught, and the OSAS doctrine can be researched and shown to not have existed in the early church teachings.............
Whatever Kenneth...if you want to believe and follow men who (wrote) things or made (quotes) that did not make the bible fill free.......God inspired the men whose quotes made the bible...anything other than that could be corrupted, added, written and or given by ANYONE......so.....I will stick with the inspired word.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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So because the first early Apostles mentioned in the bible who had other writings don't count just because they are not in the bible. That is ridiculous because those writings show exactly how they taught, which gives understanding to the context being spoke of in the scriptures, so that there is no private interpretation going on. Because private interpretation leads to false teachings such as those that were not taught by the apostles in the bible. Barnabas in his writings show clearly it was not taught, and he was as the bible shows always with Paul, Mark, and/or John. To call his other writings not inspired is ridiculous at best, as you do realize that their are many other writings from Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and others that are not in the bible as well.
Will you discard all of the other writings from the original 12 as well just because they are not in the bible???

Their direct quotes tell you exactly what they taught, and the OSAS doctrine can be researched and shown to not have existed in the early church teachings.............

I believe that God's Word (the 66 books of inspired cannon) is the ABSOLUTE STANDARD OF TRUTH and ANYTHING THAT CONTRADICTS IT ia A LIE or AN ERROR. I f an ECF writes something contrary to Scripture, it is JUST AS WRONG as if I write somthing CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE!
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Whatever Kenneth...if you want to believe and follow men who (wrote) things or made (quotes) that did not make the bible fill free.......God inspired the men whose quotes made the bible...anything other than that could be corrupted, added, written and or given by ANYONE......so.....I will stick with the inspired word.

I follow the bible, the Holy Spirit, and the sources He leads me to.
And if some of those sources are from Holy Spirit lead people, as such as the original Apostles mentioned in the bible then those writings can not be ignored nor are they uninspired as the Holy Spirit guided what they taught and wrote.

When you get into the later writings from the 2nd,3rd, and 4th centuries I can agree with you.
But when it comes directly from within the 1st century and from an Apostle clearly mentioned within the bible I can not agree. Because Barnabas walked with and taught side by side with Paul, Mark, Luke, and the others in the bible.....

Look at these names I give and then go back to the list of quotes, as you will find some are from these;

Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

Notice how Polycarp who gave some of those quotes was a direct disciple of Apostle John, so do you believe John taught him false doctrine? I don't think so.....

The first “canon” was theMuratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.
One of the two main things the council used to determine what books belonged was if it was from an apostle, or a close a person who had close ties to the original apostles. Another was if it kept with doctrine, yet they left out a number of writings that fit these categories. If we have writings from the original apostles mentioned in the bible, and their direct understudies that show a doctrine was not taught. Why should we believe in it now when it has a recent history trace to it, as even the catholic church was formed in the 2nd century before that doctrine was taught.....


 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
I believe that God's Word (the 66 books of inspired cannon) is the ABSOLUTE STANDARD OF TRUTH and ANYTHING THAT CONTRADICTS IT ia A LIE or AN ERROR. I f an ECF writes something contrary to Scripture, it is JUST AS WRONG as if I write somthing CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE!
I do believe the bible is the absolute standard as well.
But if the quotes that come directly by the apostles mentioned in name, or a direct understudy of theirs then they can not be passed off as false teaching just because we may feel it contradicts what we have been taught by those of now days.

Barnabas was an apostle and he is mentioned in the bible, and is never referred as a false teacher.
He is shown to work side by side with Paul, Mark, and John, so if one considers his writings false then those who he taught with were false teachers as well. We know that Paul, Mark, and John were not, and Barnabas was with them in the same teaching.

Polycarp another one who had many quotes and books that show opposite of the once saved always saved doctrine, was a direct understudy of the Apostle John. So if one is saying his writings are false, then they are saying John was a false teacher, because Polycarp was taught by John.......
 
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Evil! Is only what the soul chooses! I give anyone in Gods light..the benefit of doubt,.... if they even CHOOSE to speak on CC.
And, remember...there are horrid sites to be on....yet people choose CC...agreeable to you?,...or disagreeable...we ALL choose CC to love God remember that friend. Right or wrong in ones opinion....we ALL love God! And we ALL deserve to be here!
Two things. One, the doctrine of OSAS itself leads to pure evil every time (As I pointed out two posts ago). Two, most (not all) of those who debate with me on this topic have brought forth bad fruits in how they treat others (Which gives them away), as well.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
Two things. One, the doctrine of OSAS itself leads to pure evil every time (As I pointed out two posts ago).
You owe the majority of board members an abject, cowering apology for that statement. You have declared us evil. No one has made claim you are "evil" for your belief. I'm reporting your post to the administrators.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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I do believe the bible is the absolute standard as well.
But if the quotes that come directly by the apostles mentioned in name, or a direct understudy of theirs then they can not be passed off as false teaching just because we may feel it contradicts what we have been taught by those of now days.

Barnabas was an apostle and he is mentioned in the bible, and is never referred as a false teacher.
He is shown to work side by side with Paul, Mark, and John, so if one considers his writings false then those who he taught with were false teachers as well. We know that Paul, Mark, and John were not, and Barnabas was with them in the same teaching.

Polycarp another one who had many quotes and books that show opposite of the once saved always saved doctrine, was a direct understudy of the Apostle John. So if one is saying his writings are false, then they are saying John was a false teacher, because Polycarp was taught by John.......
I have read Polycarp and I see nothing in his writings that contradicts OSAS.