"It is finished." What is the "it?"
- Thread starter santuzza
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B
How can we make so much confusion of such a precious doctrine, 'the finished work', which is the foundation and cornerstone of our faith and gospel we preach. We should have unity in this and not present it as an obstacle. This is why we need to be taught and be entreatable because the Spirit we have been given is one of grace and truth.
K
That is because on how some are thought what the it is finished means.
Some are taught that His earthly ministry to usher in the new covenant under grace by receiving remission of our sins through Him by His one time perfect sacrifice.
And others are taught everything is fulfilled, and there is nothing more anybody has to do.
Yet His crucifixion did not do away with the need to repent, be baptized/born again, keep ones confession in Him, to forgive others, and to walk in love. For there is actually a doctrine being taught that His crucifixion did away with all that He taught in the gospel books and we do not have to follow those teachings. They have His crucifixion do away with the great commission.
K
I did not say you didn't read Hebrews, but to say to keep me accurate is only by your understanding and what you have been taught. What you have been taught does not make it truth either, as Hebrews shows that He went through what He did in the flesh so that we know we have a High Priest who can sympathized what we go through. This does not take away that He died for our sins, just that He went through life in the flesh facing the same temptations and issues we do without sinning.
K
Well that is fine but it still does not take away from what David was saying in that Psalm, rather you want to use Hebrew or not. Because look at what David said in that same 1st verse, "why are You so far from helping me." He felt abandoned by God in His situation he was going through, and in the 2nd verse he felt as though God was not hearing his prayers.
It is a picture of the crucifixion which I do not deny, but it shows the sympathy side of it as well that I pointed out. As again in verses 19-21 He was again is pleading for help, deliverance, and to be saved.
The sympathy aspect does not take away from the crucifixion for our sins aspect, as it just shows an all around loving Lord and Savior. His love is without measure and limitations as He can understand all that we go through, as He came and faced all those same temptations Himself without giving in and sinning.
It is a picture of the crucifixion which I do not deny, but it shows the sympathy side of it as well that I pointed out. As again in verses 19-21 He was again is pleading for help, deliverance, and to be saved.
The sympathy aspect does not take away from the crucifixion for our sins aspect, as it just shows an all around loving Lord and Savior. His love is without measure and limitations as He can understand all that we go through, as He came and faced all those same temptations Himself without giving in and sinning.
F
The reason that Jesus came to this earth is explained in John 6:38-39. When he said it is finished, he was saying that he had finished the reason for coming to earth which was to redeem back those that God gave him. Jesus said that there will be no more sacrifice for sin. All of God's sheep (elect) was secured for eternal life by the action of Jesus on the cross and there will not be even one goat saved eternally. That's why "it is finished".
F
The only person that has the ability to receive Jesus's work on the cross are those that are already born of the Spirit according to 1 Cor 2:14. Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was not for man's acceptance, but for God's acceptance in which he was well pleased. When you choose to trust God, you are, by the act of choosing performing a work, plus you have to be already born of the Spirit before you have the ability to choose anything that is of a spiritual nature.
F
The natural man, before he is born again by the grace of God, will not, and indeed can not trust in God according to 1 Cor 2:14. God will not give man eternal life by depending upon himself in it being man's choice. Dan 4:35 - God has his way with the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand. If God wants to save you eternally, he will, even if you drag your hills in the dirt. The freedom God gives to man is to make choices about his life here on earth, but not on choosing to be eternally saved, that's by the grace of God only.
K
What ???
If faith/belief in the Lord is not what saves then you are making all mankind saved. For many are called, but few are chosen. The reason only few are chosen is only a few of those who are called will actually take and live that calling out in their lives to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and follow His teachings. The gospel message is salvation through Jesus Christ, and by no other way does one get salvation. You can not get salvation if you have no belief in Jesus as your Lord and Savior and your belief shows true by it being an active faith doing as He taught/commanded.
If you say a person has salvation without repenting of their sins, then you are mistaken as the Lord said if you do not repent you will perish......
If faith/belief in the Lord is not what saves then you are making all mankind saved. For many are called, but few are chosen. The reason only few are chosen is only a few of those who are called will actually take and live that calling out in their lives to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and follow His teachings. The gospel message is salvation through Jesus Christ, and by no other way does one get salvation. You can not get salvation if you have no belief in Jesus as your Lord and Savior and your belief shows true by it being an active faith doing as He taught/commanded.
If you say a person has salvation without repenting of their sins, then you are mistaken as the Lord said if you do not repent you will perish......
F
Christ died to erase all of the sins of God's elect, past, present, and future. All, means all sins. Our sins can separate us from our fellowship with God while we live here on earth, and when he accepts our repentance, we are in fellowship with him again. Sin only causes us to lose our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation. We should do good works to keep our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation.
K
Well if you two believe future sins are automatically forgiven at a one time repentance years ago then you deny clear scriptures in the bible from Peter, Paul, John, and James that show future sins are not and still have to be confessed to receive that remission.
I seen you fosha telling another that scriptures in the bible can not contradict, well if you have future sins already forgiven as in received remission then you have 1 John contradicting this. For John is the one that said if we do sin again we have to confess them to receive that remission, and be cleansed of all unrighteousness. Then Peter and Paul both say only past sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9, Romans 3:25), and James says if a person falls away from the truth back to sins if they are brought back to the Lord their soul will be saved (James 5:19-20). How can a person fall away to sin and not be in a saved state if future sins are already forgiven ??? They can't according to you two, but the bible says they can.....