Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

[eternally-gratefull]

Anyways, I will repy later in time to those who posted to me concerning 1 John 1:9.
I want to give them a proper reply and not leave any stone unturned. I will also pray so as to give folks my best reply with Gods Word, too.

You do understand God does not hear prayers of those who are not his children? The only prayer he will hear is a prayer of repentance, You should try that first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here we go again with the false accusations. That's what I am talking about.
As I said many times before, I do not believe in Works Salvationism.

Anyways, may the Lord's love shine upon you today.

conditional salvation = works salvation.

Thats how blind you are. Works are the conditions which must be met to earn salvation.

Open your eyes before it is to late. I plead of you. Your eternity is at stake.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All Christians differ on the OSAS topic, it has always been the case and it always will be. So much scripture to interpret and everyone interprets differently. One thing to remember is we are all brothers and sisters and love should be the overriding theme.

I would respectfully disagree

There is one gospel. not two. Those who do not come to God and respond to that one gospel is not our brother or sister. they are lost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe that God's Word (the 66 books of inspired cannon) is the ABSOLUTE STANDARD OF TRUTH and ANYTHING THAT CONTRADICTS IT ia A LIE or AN ERROR. I f an ECF writes something contrary to Scripture, it is JUST AS WRONG as if I write somthing CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE!

people like them like to listen to men, because the word by itself does not support their false doctrines. Unless we take a few small verses out of context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Two things. One, the doctrine of OSAS itself leads to pure evil every time (As I pointed out two posts ago). Two, most (not all) of those who debate with me on this topic have brought forth bad fruits in how they treat others (Which gives them away), as well.

And your a hypocrite.

Its ok for you to call us evil. But not ok for us to say anything.

Keep talking, you keep digging a bigger hole. and prove your true self.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I would respectfully disagree

There is one gospel. not two. Those who do not come to God and respond to that one gospel is not our brother or sister. they are lost.

You are right there is only one gospel.
But that one gospel is salvation through Jesus Christ, not a man made doctrine called OSAS.....
Salvation through Christ is accepting Him as your Lord and Savior and being obedient to His teachings, as He said Himself why do you call Me Lord and do not do what I say ? He poses it as a question because those who believe in Him will believe in what He said to do as well...........A hearer only the bible says has no root in Him, and is deceived !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are right there is only one gospel.
But that one gospel is salvation through Jesus Christ, not a man made doctrine called OSAS.....
Salvation through Christ is accepting Him as your Lord and Savior and being obedient to His teachings, as He said Himself why do you call Me Lord and do not do what I say ? He poses it as a question because those who believe in Him will believe in what He said to do as well...........A hearer only the bible says has no root in Him, and is deceived !!!

Salvation through Christ is OSAS (or more apply named eternal security in Christ)

Salvation through works is your gospel.

Nice try though.

A conditional gospel is not of Christ or in Christ, it is in self. and is a false gospel quite readily refuted by the word.

 

[kennethcadwell]

so if one considers his writings false then those who he taught with were false teachers as well. We know that Paul, Mark, and John were not, and Barnabas was with them in the same teaching.



You seem to be saying that by studying under Paul, Mark, and John; Barnabus became incapable of misunderstanding or disagreeing with them.

This is clearly not true since all of the 11 [excluding Judas, who was not a true disciple] frequently misunderstood the teachings of Jesus as often recorded in the Gospels. If what you are saying were true; then nobody would ever fail a test in college.

Yes the original 11 misunderstood what Jesus said, but that was before the Holy Spirit came in them at Pentecost.
To say after this fact that they still misunderstood with the Holy Spirit leading them in all truth is taking away from the Holy Spirit and denying His power. The scriptures show that Barnabas did not teach differently then Paul, Mark, John, and the others or they would have held disputes with him about miss-teaching.
You can try and flip it around any way you want but Apostle Paul had no problem with what he taught and said, so neither should we as he only taught the same as Paul. Yet people want to leave out many of Paul's scriptures where he said we have to stay firm in, continue in, and keep ourselves in the faith for salvation....

 

[kennethcadwell]

Salvation through Christ is OSAS (or more apply named eternal security in Christ)

Salvation through works is your gospel.

Nice try though.

A conditional gospel is not of Christ or in Christ, it is in self. and is a false gospel quite readily refuted by the word.

Well I will continue to go by the bible, the Holy Spirit, and what the early church leaders from the original 11 throughout the first 2 centuries of the church taught over that man made doctrine that was not taught tell the 4th century.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Salvation through Christ is OSAS (or more apply named eternal security in Christ)

Salvation through works is your gospel.

Nice try though.

A conditional gospel is not of Christ or in Christ, it is in self. and is a false gospel quite readily refuted by the word.

You know I agree and what amazes me the most is the simple fact that Jesus will cast from his presence all who come before him boasting of their works and what they have done in his name for a right to enter the kingdom.....the other thing that blows my mind is that Cain was the first lost man and false teacher on the planet and he OFFERED his works and was rejected by God....It was not faith or of faith like Abel's were....the just shall live by faith period.....God sees our inward faith...Men see our outward works and not once have we said that a child of God should not or would not produce works or fruit...the difference is believing that the works add to and or facilitate and or keep salvation....the bible is clear...The works do not add to, facilitate and or augment SALVATION as that is a once for all act of faith...the bible is clear.....!

 

[kennethcadwell]

You know I agree and what amazes me the most is the simple fact that Jesus will cast from his presence all who come before him boasting of their works and what they have done in his name for a right to enter the kingdom.....the other thing that blows my mind is that Cain was the first lost man and false teacher on the planet and he OFFERED his works and was rejected by God....It was not faith or of faith like Abel's were....the just shall live by faith period.....God sees our inward faith...Men see out outward works and not once have we said a child of God should not or would not produce works or fruit...the difference is believing that the works add to and or facilitate and or keep salvation....the bible is clear...The works do not add to, facilitate and or augment SALVATION as that is a once for all act of faith...the bible is clear.....!

We do not boast about our works nor do we believe in a works to earn salvation.
Those are both two fatal debates that are constantly made by the OSAS crowd that has been refuted and disproved for years, yet you all still continue with that false accusing of us who believe works of the Spirit do go hand and hand with salvation.
Even Apostle Paul says there is no condemnation in those in Christ "who" walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh.
Two parts that keep a person from being condemned by the law, and keep one from facing judgment and the lake of fire. Faith in Christ and walking by the Spirit, for the fruits of the Spirit are the opposite of transgression. If you walk in the fruits you will not transgress the law, but you will instead establish it, uphold it, and thus fulfill it by love........

A Faith in Christ leading to salvation does hang on love, because as Apostle John says the ones who do not love do not know God for God is love. No love in a person means no Holy Spirit, no Holy Spirit means no salvation.....

 

[MarcR]

Yes the original 11 misunderstood what Jesus said, but that was before the Holy Spirit came in them at Pentecost.
To say after this fact that they still misunderstood with the Holy Spirit leading them in all truth is taking away from the Holy Spirit and denying His power. The scriptures show that Barnabas did not teach differently then Paul, Mark, John, and the others or they would have held disputes with him about miss-teaching.
You can try and flip it around any way you want but Apostle Paul had no problem with what he taught and said, so neither should we as he only taught the same as Paul. Yet people want to leave out many of Paul's scriptures where he said we have to stay firm in, continue in, and keep ourselves in the faith for salvation....

Ken,

I presume that you have the Holy Spirit; and I believe you will acknowledge that I have too; but we are not in agreement on this. How does your premise account for this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well I will continue to go by the bible, the Holy Spirit, and what the early church leaders from the original 11 throughout the first 2 centuries of the church taught over that man made doctrine that was not taught tell the 4th century.....

Thats ok, It was taught in the 1st. By the time the 4th century came, The church was paganized.

Again, Stop following men, and try to seek out what God has to say, your a man follower. not a God follower.

 

[dcontroversal]

We do not boast about our works nor do we believe in a works to earn salvation.
Those are both two fatal debates that are constantly made by the OSAS crowd that has been refuted and disproved for years, yet you all still continue with that false accusing of us who believe works of the Spirit do go hand and hand with salvation.
Even Apostle Paul says there is no condemnation in those in Christ "who" walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh.
Two parts that keep a person from being condemned by the law, and keep one from facing judgment and the lake of fire. Faith in Christ and walking by the Spirit, for the fruits of the Spirit are the opposite of transgression. If you walk in the fruits you will not transgress the law, but you will instead establish it, uphold it, and thus fulfill it by love........

A Faith in Christ leading to salvation does hang on love, because as Apostle John says the ones who do not love do not know God for God is love. No love in a person means no Holy Spirit, no Holy Spirit means no salvation.....

You should be in a commercial for Japanese knives....no matter how you slice and dice it...if you believe you can lose salvation then YOU have to do something to KEEP it or get it back.......period....you can deny it Kenneth, but your words belie your own view.....and NO WHERE does the bible put love before faith when it comes to a man and the spiritual gifts available....

FAITH is first on the list and a MAN cannot LOVE except he be born from ABOVE......FAITH-->HOPE---->LOVE....you really should start being honest with the word you say you study.......

And besides this give all diligence to ADD to your FAITH VIRTURE
to VIRTURE-->knowledge
to Knowledge-->temperance
to temperance-->patience
to patience-->godliness
to godliness-->brotherly kindness
to brotherly kindness-->CHARITY

CHARITY=AGAPE =LOVE
1st on the list is FAITH
LAST on the LIST is LOVE

Our faith into Christ is the starting point and is not dependent upon LOVE.....

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken,

I presume that you have the Holy Spirit; and I believe you will acknowledge that I have too; but we are not in agreement on this. How does your premise account for this?

All I can say is from the bible on how it says we are to test all spirits, and if the one that is leading us denies Jesus as the Lord (God in the flesh) and denies to keep/follow His teachings then that spirit is not the Holy Spirit or any spirit from God. The spirit that I listen to that is in me I know it is the Holy Spirit because it confirms Jesus as Lord, God in the flesh, His resurrection, and the obedience in love to all His teachings.
The scriptures make it clear the Holy Spirit will not lead one in uncleanness and falsehoods. The main 11 did not teach falsehoods, as they misunderstood His teachings while still being learners (disciples). Once they became the teachers/leaders of the church the Holy Spirit they came upon them guided them in all truth. To say they still continued in falsehoods after the Holy Spirit came in them would deny the Holy Spirits purpose and why He was sent.

John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You should be in a commercial for Japanese knives....no matter how you slice and dice it...if you believe you can lose salvation then YOU have to do something to KEEP it or get it back.......period....you can deny it Kenneth, but your words belie your own view.....and NO WHERE does the bible put love before faith when it comes to a man and the spiritual gifts available....

FAITH is first on the list and a MAN cannot LOVE except he be born from ABOVE......FAITH-->HOPE---->LOVE....you really should start being honest with the word you say you study.......

And besides this give all diligence to ADD to your FAITH VIRTURE
to VIRTURE-->knowledge
to Knowledge-->temperance
to temperance-->patience
to patience-->godliness
to godliness-->brotherly kindness
to brotherly kindness-->CHARITY

CHARITY=AGAPE =LOVE
1st on the list is FAITH
LAST on the LIST is LOVE

Our faith into Christ is the starting point and is not dependent upon LOVE.....

I never said love comes before faith, as what I said is the faith with fruit (works) of the Spirit go hand and hand through Christ unto salvation. You can not have eternal life if you do not love others, it is that simple !!!


1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:
anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

(3:14) We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

(3:15)Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

(4:7) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

(4:8)The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Thats ok, It was taught in the 1st. By the time the 4th century came, The church was paganized.

Again, Stop following men, and try to seek out what God has to say, your a man follower. not a God follower.

Wrong as I showed just the other day once again quotes from the early church leaders from the 1st and 2nd centuries of the church that did not teach it.

Barnabas who is in the bible as an understudy of Paul's, and a co-worker with him, Mark, and John did not teach it....

Polycarp who was an understudy of John also wrote many writings teaching the opposite of OSAS.....

So keep denying their writings and keep going with a doctrine that was not heard tell the 4th century, and was not widely taught tell Luthern and Calvin made it a mainstream doctrine.


Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[Biblelogic01]

8.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth isnot in us. 9. Ifwe confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and hisword is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

Soif confess our sins, and not fight for them, like people's do today,then our Lord will clean us for our sins, like the Scriptures alsotell us, if we read the whole subject, because I think it is very common, that people's use only a part of this subject, when they try to convince, that man can't live without sinning.

But man can, and man should live without sinning.

Donot deceive your selves, but be truthful so you may com clean fromsinning.

Amazing post

These are going to be retorhical questions, but I would like to see answers though.
What is sin? How is sin defined? And How does one keep from walking in sin?

 

[MarcR]

All I can say is from the bible on how it says we are to test all spirits, and if the one that is leading us denies Jesus as the Lord (God in the flesh) and denies to keep/follow His teachings then that spirit is not the Holy Spirit or any spirit from God. The spirit that I listen to that is in me I know it is the Holy Spirit because it confirms Jesus as Lord, God in the flesh, His resurrection, and the obedience in love to all His teachings.
The scriptures make it clear the Holy Spirit will not lead one in uncleanness and falsehoods. The main 11 did not teach falsehoods, as they misunderstood His teachings while still being learners (disciples). Once they became the teachers/leaders of the church the Holy Spirit they came upon them guided them in all truth. To say they still continued in falsehoods after the Holy Spirit came in them would deny the Holy Spirits purpose and why He was sent.

John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit's indwelling does not guarantee that we will consistently follow His leading.

I do NOT take ANYTHING beyond the 66 canonical books as authoritative.

 

[Nico07]

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit's indwelling does not guarantee that we will consistently follow His leading.

I do NOT take ANYTHING beyond the 66 canonical books as authoritative.

I would very much agree with that statement, as we see Peter again withdrew from the Gentiles, when those of the circumsision came.