Who was the sacrifice of Christ offered to, God or man?

[MarcR]

All scripture that you have listed is true, you just have not applied them to the right salvation. Salvation is "a deliverance". Eternal salvation is being delivered from this sinful world to a home in heaven. Most of the salvation scriptures are not pertaining to eternal salvation, but to a deliverance we receive here on earth. When we repent of a sin that we have done and God forgives us of the sin, we have been saved (delivered) from the quilt of that sin.

I think you have the wrong deliverance! We are delivered from both the consequence and the penalty of SIN; and we have the FUTURE promise of deliverance from the presence of SIN.

 

[ChristInUs]

I think you have the wrong deliverance! We are delivered from both the consequence and the penalty of SIN; and we have the FUTURE promise of deliverance from the presence of SIN.

That depends, it's not a well I did this so I'm okay.

 

[DesiredHaven]

I think you have the wrong deliverance! We are delivered from both the consequence and the penalty of SIN; and we have the FUTURE promise of deliverance from the presence of SIN.

This will be "one of those" threads Im thinking

 

[Willie-T]

John 11:50, Cai-a-phas, the high Roman priest was not a prophet of God, neither did Jesus make this statement. This also is referring to a nation, not all mankind.

When did Caiaphas become a Roman priest?

 

[forsha]

Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world and the sacrifice is offered to God. We unite with Jesus Christ' sacrifice and resurrection and this is how we offer ourselves to God - through Jesus Christ.

Give me scripture on why you think that we unite with Jesus.

 

[forsha]

The payment for sin is payable only to God. However God had to pick a payment that was just, otherwise He would lose His throne. God has to be holy and righteous.

How do you describe, with scripture, "picking a payment that is just"?

 

[forsha]

Jesus' sacrifice was offered to God to satisfy the penalty for SIN. (ALL SIN)

The sacrifice was NOT OFFERED TO MAN FOR HIS ACCEPTANCE!

For a man, or woman to avail himself (herself) of this payment on our behalf; it is necessary confess and repent; and to accept the Lordship (ownership) of Jesus on our lives.


2 Pe 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV

and

Jn 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
KJV


and

Jn 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
KJV


and

Rv 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
KJV


must all be simultaneously true.

2 Pet 3:9 Peter is addressing people that have already been born of the Spirit, 2 Pet 1:1. a people that has obtained like precious faith. Peter is giving them a warning, and including himself by using the word "us-ward", that when they sin they should repent of that sin so they will not parish (lose their relationship with God). Jesus said to some people, "you hear not because you are not of my sheep and if they are sheep they are already born of the Spirit. He is standing at the door and knocking and the only ones that will hear him is his sheep.

 

[Cassian]

Christ died for the sins of those that God gave to him to carry out his Fathers will to redeem them back to Him. His sacrifice was offered to God in answer of completing his Father's will. Show me where it was offered to man for his acceptance.

I was not offered to man.

The atonement was between two parties, God and Christ. II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:24. God was reconciling the world to Himself through Christ. It was the world, all things that were given to Christ. Col 1:20 to redeem. Christ came to defeat the works of the devil, death, sin and Satan himself. Heb 2:14, I John 3:8.

The only thing that is offered to man is union with Christ with the promise of eternal life if we are faithful, if we endure, if we abide in Him.

Man has absolutely nothing to do with the atonement.

 

[forsha]

It is a covenant agreement. A covenant requires two parties, though only one of the parties may be required to "do" something -- in this case, God is the only one required to deliver anything, and that "thing" is salvation. Still, man must seal the bargain through faith -- which even then is something provided by God.

Nonetheless, it is a two-party covenant. Man believes in Christ's sacrifice, death, burial, and resurrection for salvation. God provided everything of "tangible necessity" but the faith He provides must be acted on, meaning man must have faith in the sovereignty of God, believing that what He says, He will do.[/FONT][/SIZE]

It would be nice if you would give some scripture with your thoughts. It seems that you are holding to the fact that Jesus can not eternally save a person unless they act upon their faith to accept his offer. Dan 4:35, God has his way with the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand. Are you saying that man can stay his hand?

 

[forsha]

I think you have the wrong deliverance! We are delivered from both the consequence and the penalty of SIN; and we have the FUTURE promise of deliverance from the presence of SIN.

We were delivered from the penalty of sin by Jesus's faithfulness to go to the cross. The sins that we commit are already paid for by the sacrifice of Christ, as far as our eternal destination, but when we sin we separate ourselves from his fellowship, not separate ourselves eternally.

 

[forsha]

When did Caiaphas become a Roman priest?

I did not say that he was a priest, I said he was a teacher of the law, as we all should be.

 

[MarcR]

Is this just "guesswho's" doctrine, or do I get some inspired scriptures to back up your theory?

Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
KJV

There is his first precept. As for the rest I wouldn't word my belief quite the same way; but I'm not that far from his position.

 

[DesiredHaven]

John 11:50, Cai-a-phas, the high Roman priest was not a prophet of God, neither did Jesus make this statement. This also is referring to a nation, not all mankind.

When did Caiaphas become a Roman priest?

I did not say that he was a priest, I said he was a teacher of the law, as we all should be.

But Willie-T is correct you did say he was a Roman high priest, your quote is included in this post highlighted in red as Willie quoted the same on his post earlier.

It says here...

Mat 26:57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Here it says who he died for here

John 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people,
and that the whole nation perish not.

John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year,
he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,
to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time
his righteousness: that he might be just,
and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Accepting meaning believe? I dont see the word accepting there but checking secular dictionaries the word means believe, and in Romans 3:26, following the same line of though with the propitiation inclusive not only of one people (but the world) is followed up there with him who believes (or as secular dictionaries say, "accept")

I like to use words in scripture to find the place better though.

You responded to the second verse only (adding into the Roman priest) which you afterwards deny and say teacher of the law and then ignore follow up posts

John 11:50, Cai-a-phas, the high Roman priest was not a prophet of God, neither did Jesus make this statement. This also is referring to a nation, not all mankind.

Why did you ignore the very next verse? It was not even out of John 11 (where it speaks of Caiaphas) it was out of 1 John 2:2 from the Apostle.

See the verse right behind it (in the above) the whole world is included in that following verse

Here it is

1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of ((((((((((((((((((( the whole world )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I put extra highlighter around ((((the whole world))))) part for you

People say chill out on the highlighter but I really think more is necessary more often then not.

In respects to Caiaphas again, I didnt hear back from you on this one either

Scripture says he didnt say this of himself

John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself:

Next verse (which I did not post) adds

John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

[tribesman]

Jesus' sacrifice was offered to God to satisfy the penalty for SIN. (ALL SIN)

The sacrifice was NOT OFFERED TO MAN FOR HIS ACCEPTANCE!

For a man, or woman to avail himself (herself) of this payment on our behalf; it is necessary confess and repent; and to accept the Lordship (ownership) of Jesus on our lives.


2 Pe 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV

and

...

Jn 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
KJV


and

Rv 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
KJV


must all be simultaneously true.

These scriptures are all addressed to the covenant community, people who already knew God's will, they are not addressed to unbelievers or gentiles in the world. They are therefore not an argument for universal atonement nor for the concept that unregenerate people have any free will in spiritual matters.

 

[Cassian]

Tribesman,

These scriptures are all addressed to the covenant community, people who already knew God's will, they are not addressed to unbelievers or gentiles in the world. They are therefore not an argument for universal atonement nor for the concept that unregenerate people have any free will in spiritual matters.

The Bible is directed toward believers. But it does not necessarily ONLY speak about believers. When it comes to Christ's work, His atonement it is universal. It cannot be otherwise as scripture clearly portrays Christ, what He accomplished, the why and how.

The Atonement was for God as II Cor 5:18-19 and Rom 3:24 clearly state. Man is not involved in the Atonement in any shape or form.

This difference of whether the word "accept" or "believe" the better word is to believe Christ. One is NOT accepting or believing the Atonement, since man cannot do that either. It was not for Him.

What we actually do or are required to do, is to believe Christ that He was the Savior of the world. In believing we can accept His offer of eternal life if we enter into a relationship of love and obedience with Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not say that he was a priest, I said he was a teacher of the law, as we all should be.

you can't admit your own mistake?

Originally Posted by forsha

John 11:50, Cai-a-phas, the high Roman priest

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in answer.

Jesus offered his sacrifice TO GOD. for ALL mankind.

 

[dcontroversal]

The sacrifice of Christ....

1. According to the will of the Heavenly Father on behalf of humanity and all of creation.
2. Covers the sin of the entire human race, but only applied unto those who exercise faith.
3. The word Cosmos is indicative of the whole order of things regardless what Thayer's states.
4. Has satisfied the Heavenly Father and has met the Father's requirements for the (BUY BACK) redemption of humanity.
5. Bestows eternal salvation, justification and sanctification (positionally) unto all that exercise faith.
6. Results in a stamp of approval (sealing of the Holy Spirit) which is the pre-payment of our eternal inheritance.
7. Is a once for all ACT, does not need to be repeated and positions Christ as the one and only eternal mediator between humanity and God the Father.
8. Is sufficient and does not need to be facilitated, embellished and or helped by human effort.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!

 

[forsha]

I think you have the wrong deliverance! We are delivered from both the consequence and the penalty of SIN; and we have the FUTURE promise of deliverance from the presence of SIN.

Mark, just so I can understand you better. Are you saying that your conscience has never been pricked by God for a sin that you have done? Christ died for the sins of those that God gave him, and none of our sins that we commit, almost daily, will take away our eternal salvation, but if we want to stay in fellowship with God, we must repent of the sins we commit although they have been paid for as for as eternal salvation is concerned.