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E
This is a faulty view
The writter says for it is impossible, having falling away, to renew them to repentance.
It does not say they can fall away, it says if they could fall away, the impossible act is to renew to repentance.
vs 7-8 proves they can not fall away. "near to being cursed"
Non of the previous things say they were ever saved, One can taste the gift, partake of the benefits of the gift, and do all those things just by hanging out with Gods people. it is called blessing by association.
The writter says for it is impossible, having falling away, to renew them to repentance.
It does not say they can fall away, it says if they could fall away, the impossible act is to renew to repentance.
vs 7-8 proves they can not fall away. "near to being cursed"
Non of the previous things say they were ever saved, One can taste the gift, partake of the benefits of the gift, and do all those things just by hanging out with Gods people. it is called blessing by association.
Your right...you do give tons of scriptures while ignoring Greek definitions, verb tenses, context all while promoting the writings of men who did not make that canon......What is amazing is the amount of scripture, verb tenses and context that has been given to you and you will go down in flames before you actually acknowledge the truth Kenneth<---now that is pride......
some examples....
eternal=temporary
not by works of righteousness=only by works of righteousness
all sin=I don't sin or just mess up
sin causes loss of salvation=I never sin enough to lose my salvation
justified equals rendered innocent=man made definition
sanctified forever in Christ=temporary sanctification based upon works
WHASOEVER GOD DOES IS ETERNAL=except salvation cause he is not strong enough to keep you saved
Sacrifice of Jesus good enough for the Father=not good enough and needs our help by works
Jesus died unto ALL SIN ONCE=not future sins committed...let's put Jesus back on the cross
God's grace out bounds our sin=no it doesn't as we have to repent or lose salvation
Salvation is eternal=temporary based upon self and what one does
Sins cause loss of salvation=but not with you as you don't sin and or have plenty of time to repent
and on and on and on........
some examples....
eternal=temporary
not by works of righteousness=only by works of righteousness
all sin=I don't sin or just mess up
sin causes loss of salvation=I never sin enough to lose my salvation
justified equals rendered innocent=man made definition
sanctified forever in Christ=temporary sanctification based upon works
WHASOEVER GOD DOES IS ETERNAL=except salvation cause he is not strong enough to keep you saved
Sacrifice of Jesus good enough for the Father=not good enough and needs our help by works
Jesus died unto ALL SIN ONCE=not future sins committed...let's put Jesus back on the cross
God's grace out bounds our sin=no it doesn't as we have to repent or lose salvation
Salvation is eternal=temporary based upon self and what one does
Sins cause loss of salvation=but not with you as you don't sin and or have plenty of time to repent
and on and on and on........
K
Yes there was false teachers/apostles in Paul's day, but Barnabas was not one of them.
For he was recognized as Paul as a fellow apostle and taught side by side with Paul, and Polycarp was an understudy to the Apostle John. Barnabas is recognized as a true Apostle in the the bible, yet you would still believe his writings to be false even though he would have been Spirit lead in the Word. Polycarp also who was taught by John, which in terms means was given the truth by the Holy Spirit as well. Both men had the Holy Spirit guided truth of the word, yet you and others still want to try and deem them as false teachers just because those writings are not in the bible.
Rather ones writings are in the bible or not does not make them a false teacher or true teacher of the word.
You believe Paul, John, Mark, and James to be true teachers don't you? They have other writings that are not in the bible to, so does that make what they said in those letters false? No, as that is just a faulty excuse to discredit those writings.
You do realize this lie of discounting these writings was started by the Catholics at the Nicene council, as just like other cover ups they tried to do that can be easily found in study.
E
and you know this ONLY because the books of the catholic church tells you this. you were not there, you can not get this from biblical support.
it is all based on what you are told by men.
again, listen tot he word of God not men, You were not there, so you ONLY reliable source is the inspired word of God.
K
Wrong again as I use the full definition of the Greek words and the context in which they are applied from the Strong's Greek Concordance. I do not use a shortened version of the definition or a twisted usage of it, as you and others do.
To make eternal life an immediate physical possession of ours right now, and not a mental possession of assurance of having it now then you make over 25 scriptures from Apostle Paul contradict those few you use for your stance.
The bible can not contradict itself so when Paul and Peter both show many times it is the ending result of our faith, and not a beginning possession, then those other few scriptures has to be looked into to find the right context so they don't contradict. The Holy Spirit has lead me to the truth in those scriptures and meanings.
Eternal life is eternal when we receive it at the gathering, when we are transformed into our eternal spiritual bodies at a twinkling of an eye. We are not in those eternal spiritual bodies yet, as we are still in mortal bodies of flesh and blood that can not inherit the kingdom of heaven....
Once again I do not base salvation on works, so please stop that false accusation as I have clearly refuted it many of times !!!
By what you and a few others deny is the clear scriptures that shows and says a person can fall away from the faith, as in go back to unbelief, and not end up with eternal life. Jesus, Holy Spirit, Paul, Peter, James, John, and Jude all agree with this and say it does happen. So I will agree with them in the bible and not how you and a few others have been taught.
The thing I think some of you are confused on to is that you might believe that unbelief just means our Lord Jesus or God does not exist. The bible however states continuing to, or returning to living in willful sin, and being disobedient to His word is also unbelief....
Notice what the men he quotes taught......
30-100 AD Clement of Rome "[We] are not justified by ourselves. Nor by our own wisdom, understanding, godliness, or works done in holiness of heart. But by that faith through which Almighty God has justified all men since the beginning." (Clement of Rome Corinthians chap. 32)
69-156 AD Polycarp "Many desire to enter into this joy, knowing that 'by grace you are saved, not of works,' but by the will of God through Jesus Christ [Eph. 2:8]." (Polycarp Philippians chap. 1)
125 AD Barnabas "To this end the Lord delivered up His flesh to corruption, that we might be sanctified through the remission of sins, which is effected by His blood." (Barnabas Letter chap 5)
No works listed there......!
30-100 AD Clement of Rome "[We] are not justified by ourselves. Nor by our own wisdom, understanding, godliness, or works done in holiness of heart. But by that faith through which Almighty God has justified all men since the beginning." (Clement of Rome Corinthians chap. 32)
69-156 AD Polycarp "Many desire to enter into this joy, knowing that 'by grace you are saved, not of works,' but by the will of God through Jesus Christ [Eph. 2:8]." (Polycarp Philippians chap. 1)
125 AD Barnabas "To this end the Lord delivered up His flesh to corruption, that we might be sanctified through the remission of sins, which is effected by His blood." (Barnabas Letter chap 5)
No works listed there......!
K
Again with the false Catholic accusations as I do not go by any of their books or their customs.
I only go by the Word of God and His Holy Spirit to guide me, you have been so badly lead in a hate doctrine toward the Catholic church that it blinds you to some truths the bible does give that they do teach in their churches. They teach a lot of things contrary to the bible, but they do have a few truths they do teach. Your hate doctrine toward them shows brightly in your responses, and the bible clearly warns of such doctrines as well. For we are called to love all people, and not just those who are brothers and sisters in Christ.
So once again I am not lead by men as you so falsely claim on me.
As I stated before those who are Holy Spirit lead Apostles mentioned in the bible we can not discount their writings, and the Holy Spirit will not disregard His own truth as well. He can not deny Himself !!!
Show me one scripture that says the words, "Once saved always saved."
You as a few others like to use word play when it suits you, so show me one scripture in the bible that has those exact words used. You will not because it was started by a man and not mentioned in the word of God.
Jesus
And then many will fall away..................
Holy Spirit through Paul
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith
J
It doesn't seem that people understand why the book of Hebrews was written. What was the historical situation behind the book? It was simple - the book of Hebrews was written to the Jewish Christians who lived in Rome. It was written just before Nero began his severe persecution in early 65AD. From 65-68AD he murdered an estimated 5,000 Christians. How do I know? It says in the text "You have not yet resisted unto blood." Christians in general were being persecuted to a lesser degree before Nero began. As a result the Messianic or Jewish Christians were abandoning their Christianity and reverting back to Judaism and the synagogues in order to avoid persecution. This whole book addresses that problem. At that time the Jews were not being persecuted but of course that began to change in 66AD when the rebellion began at Jerusalem.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Once enlightened - became Christians. Tasted of the heavenly gift and partook of the baptism of the Holy Spirit - day of Pentecost experience.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
God set them free from the law and now they were returning to that bondage (falling away). In denying Christianity they were treading underfoot the spirit of Grace and the atonement of Christ. They were going backwards. So in order to return to Christianity they were crucifying Jesus all over again. It was a difficult situation.