Hebrews 6:1-6

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth, I have nothing against you personally other than what you teach....

1. If one can lose salvation then by default one must do something to keep it, earn it back and or facilitate it...be default that is a works based salvation.
2. The canon of scriptures includes exactly the men who were inspired....to say that someone else was inspired is contrary period.
3. What you say that we have done is exactly what you and your buddies have done when the coin is on the other side...

Believe what you will.....if you want to believe that men outside the bible were inspired...have a ball...if you want to believe you can lose salvation and have to do something to keep it or earn it back...have a ball....the bible does not teach those two things......so...believe what you will......we will all find out real soon who held the truth and who did not......eternity is at stake...good luck with your view which contradicts the scripture! Can you say done!

Yes Dcon it is called faith !!!

If one continues to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ then they have assurance of eternal life.

However if one stops believing in Jesus, hince wanders/falls away from the faith as the bible says in a number of places, then they do not have eternal life unless like James says they come back to Him by repenting.

I have never said a person has to work to earn salvation, nor have I ever said one has to do enough works to get salvation. Two lies told about me in the past.

But the bible does make it clear that fruits(works) of the Spirit are proof of a true faith, and Jesus says every branch that does not produce fruit will be gathered and cast into the pit to be burned (lake of fire).

I have never attacked you personally or made condemning remarks directly toward you, so no I have not gang attacked you as you say.
Apostle Paul clearly says multiple times that we have to continue, stand firm, keep ourselves in the faith to receive eternal life. A person who falls away from the faith if they do not return to the Lord in repentance will not end up with eternal life. The bible is very clear about that, and it has nothing to do with our personal works, but our faith in the Lord. Do you fully trust Him to follow all of His teachings, or do you not trust Him as your Lord? That is the question we must all ask ourselves in the faith, as Apostle John shows in chapters 2-4 of his first epistle. When he shows how one knows they are saved unto salvation if our walk matches those 3 chapters.

 

[valiant]

The Epistle of Barnabas so-called is actually an anonymous epistle. There is nothing to link it to Barnabas. The ascription came much later and was a pure guess (like the tradition that links him with the epistle to the Hebrews).

The canon of the New Testament was pretty well settled by the second part of the second century AD. It was not based on hearsay or preference but on the known connection of the writings with Apostles. It consisted of the four Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, Jude, 1 Peter, 1 John (which may have included 2 & 3 John) and Revelation . James and 2 Peter and Hebrews were accepted later, the delay probably being due to the fact that they were not widely circulated. No other books obtained general acceptance.

The early church were not fools. They knew where books and letters had come from and they knew who had written them. These appear to have been accepted by the whole church. Those not mentioned were not universally accepted.

 

[kennethcadwell]

So far from the truth and accusatory......it is called making a stand on the truth......I suppose Jesus was hating when he called the Pharisees white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men or maybe John the Baptist when he called the Pharisees a bunch of snakes in the grass......Ken you should really grow some skin and not be so easily offended.......!

It is not far from the truth, and once again you go with how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.
You do realize that first of all the Pharisees twisted and used the law for personal reasons, self righteousness. He did not speak to them that way because they were perfect at how they acted and followed the law perfectly, which they did not. So your handling of a fellow brother or sister in the faith is being handled wrongly by using that example, as the Pharisees were not in the faith. They were deceivers of the law, as they taught it but did not uphold it and even twisted it for their own selfish gain.

You need to pull away from how Jesus and John the Baptist called the Pharisees as that standard does not apply to how we are to treat each other in the faith. We are to rebuke, exhort, and esteem each other out of love and by the Word, not just rebuke in condemning and unedifying manners toward others. Where is your esteeming others at, and where is your ability to say you are sorry and reconcile with a brother or sister in Christ as the Lord commanded???
If I have wronged you some how I would apologize as that is not the proper attitude we are to show each other, and like I said before I can understand you may not see it that way. But it is not how you see it, as it is about how others see your attitude towards them. If another tells you you have wronged them, then you have, no matter how you see it.....
Offending another is not the way of a Christian, and your last statement shows as always that instead of admitting you may have wronged another you push the blame off on the one you wronged..........
Humbling yourself as we are called to do is about admitting you wronged a person and saying your sorry instead of blaming them still for what you say gets easily offended..........


God bless and I pray to God he will open your heart to this understanding.......

 

[kennethcadwell]

The Epistle of Barnabas so-called is actually an anonymous epistle. There is nothing to link it to Barnabas. The ascription came much later and was a pure guess (like the tradition that links him with the epistle to the Hebrews).

The canon of the New Testament was pretty well settled by the second part of the second century AD. It was not based on hearsay or preference but on the known connection of the writings with Apostles. It consisted of the four Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, Jude, 1 Peter, 1 John (which may have included 2 & 3 John) and Revelation . James and 2 Peter and Hebrews were accepted later, the delay probably being due to the fact that they were not widely circulated. No other books obtained general acceptance.

The early church were not fools. They knew where books and letters had come from and they knew who had written them. These appear to have been accepted by the whole church. Those not mentioned were not universally accepted.

You are right here on all points, and even on the final one that they were not universally accepted.
Meaning that some of the other books we don't have in the bible we have now days were accepted by some back then. Even to this day and age there are very small sects that do not accept Hebrews, James, and 2 Peter still. It is very small but there are a few, and then you have the other extreme like the Paulinians who does away with all NT scriptures except for the ones written by Paul and Revelation.
One must realize though that all the original Apostles had writings that they either did or had a scribe write for them.
Even two of the gospel books we have in Mark and Luke are not from the original 12 Apostles they were added later under the leadership of Peter and Paul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do I have to repeat this again as I have given the scripture 3 times now;

Acts 14:14

But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their robes and rushed out into the crowd, crying out

NOTHING in scripture says that man wrote the words you claim are inspired by the HS. The mere fact the church did not include it into the cannon proves it was not considered by the early church to be the inspired words of God. Most likely, it was not even written when it claims to be written.

In Other words. there is NO reason to consider this inspired by God.

Stop listening to men, listen to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EVERYBODY SINS..EVEN CHRISTIANS.. #truth

yes we do. And according to God inspired word (as apposed to outside sources) The least of these sins make us guilty as if we broke every command of Christ.

ONLY when we realise this, are we able to come to the bottom of ourselves and become the tax collector. Not even able to look up to God. and beg for his salvation.

Anything short is not true repentance.

 

[john832]

thats funny, James called a dead faith faith.. It was dead all the same, but he still called it faith.

And then he adds this...

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And it is dead. No life, no spirit life.

 

[Elin]

And then he adds this...

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And it is dead. No life, no spirit life.

And that is the meaning of counterfeit faith, no root of rebirth into eternal life,

which faiith does not and did not save them, which is why they apostasize (Lk 8:13).

 

[john832]

And that is the meaning of counterfeit faith, which does not and did not save them.

Exaclty, and one cannot fall away from the faith by falling away from a counterfeit faith. To fall away, one had to be there at one time.

 

[Elin]

And that is the meaning of counterfeit faith, which does not and did not save them.

Exaclty, and one cannot fall away from the faith by falling away from a counterfeit faith. To fall away, one had to be there at one time.

Previously addressed. . .see 1Jn 2:19.

 

[MarcR]

Please stop ignoring scripture I have shown you.

Acts 14:14 says Barnabas is an Apostle, and 1 Thessalonians 2:6 calls Paul, Timothy, and Silvanus Apostles..

Ac 14:14
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
KJV


1 Th 2:1-6
2 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
KJV


As previously mentioned:

the word 'APOSTLES', which means sent ones, is used in TWO DISTINCT WAYS:

1) the eleven plus Matthias plus Paul

2) any missionary


in the above citations, you have given examples of the SECOND usage.

Barnabas has no more authority than Hudson Taylor or Nate Saint.

 

[Elin]

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And it is dead. No life, no spirit life.

And that is the meaning of counterfeit faith, no root of rebirth into eternal life,

which faith does not and did not save them, which is why they apostasize (Lk 8:13).

Exaclty, and one cannot fall away from the faith by falling away from a counterfeit faith. To fall away, one had to be there at one time.

Sorry. . .in the NT an unsaved profession of belief is called "faith". . .dead "faith". . .but "faith" nevertheless, even though it is dead, counterfeit, false.
It is not called a "claim," or a "profession" or an "avowal," it is called "faith". . .dead, false, counterfeit "faith."

It is the unsaved's counterfeit, false, dead profession of faith that is abandoned when they apostasize.
Since they were never saved in the first place, they cannot lose a salvation which they never had.

Their apostasy is proof that their professed faith was always counterfeit, false, dead. (1Jn 2:19),
having no root of rebirth (Lk 8:13) into eternal life (Jn 5:24, 6:54).

 

[DesiredHaven]

Ac 14:14
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
KJV


1 Th 2:1-6
2 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
KJV


As previously mentioned:

the word 'APOSTLES', which means sent ones, is used in TWO DISTINCT WAYS:

1) the eleven plus Matthias plus Paul

2) any missionary


in the above citations, you have given examples of the SECOND usage.

Barnabas has no more authority than Hudson Taylor or Nate Saint.

Even Jesus is called an Apostle

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,
consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

As he is sent of the Father

John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee:
but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

And likewise he sends them

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again,
Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me,
even so send I you.

 

[weakness]

How many of the OSAS here are baptist or once were? please I would rally like to Know. Also If any one culd help with some answers . I thought that the canonization of the bible was made at the counsel of Nicene or something. Is that true and if it is who was in authority then? I thought Constantine maybe. Please respond if you know. thank you.

 

[oldhermit]

Yes I do know what the aorist tense means, I also know it is used in many places as an "if" statement that may or may not be true (as I showed in like 17)

Sorry it took so long to respond. Your statement regarding the use of "if" in connection with an aorist tense verb made me somewhat curious so I have had to do a little reviewing in the use of the aorist tense to see if it was grammatically legitimate to preface this aorist verb with "if". I could find nothing in the rules of Greek grammar that would permit this. From what I see regarding the use of the aorist is that it almost always represents a statement of fact that is connected with a past action. Grammatically speaking, the addition of "if" in Heb. 6:6 is an introduction of a foreign element into the grammar so it must then be recognized as a statement of fact rather than a hypothetical supposition.

i think it means as paul said, our works will be tried, and even if all our work is burned (wood hay straw) he himself will still be saved, as though escaping through the fire (imagine a man whose house is on fire, and he runs through the flame to get out of the house naked He gets out naked, but he is still saved) and that would be supported by the rest of hebrews 6.

I really no not think 1 Corinthians 3:12 addresses this example of Heb 6. The Hebrew is not talking about the works of those who had fallen away being burned up. He is addressing their spiritual condition both prior to their fallen state and after having fallen away. Their fate is portrayed as one of judgement and destruction. This is the same thing he addresses in 10:29. He speaks of those who had "trampled underfoot the Son of God." These were not pagan unbelievers, these were Christians who had abandoned the faith. These are those whom he affirms had once been sanctified but now are under judgment awaiting the vengeance of God. All they have left to look forward to is fearful retribution. Peter describes these in 2Pet 2 as those who had abandoned the right way, and had gone astray. He calls them cursed or doomed children.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ac 14:14
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
KJV


1 Th 2:1-6
2 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
KJV


As previously mentioned:

the word 'APOSTLES', which means sent ones, is used in TWO DISTINCT WAYS:

1) the eleven plus Matthias plus Paul

2) any missionary


in the above citations, you have given examples of the SECOND usage.

Barnabas has no more authority than Hudson Taylor or Nate Saint.

Trying to discredit them as always with this two different categories that the bible does not do.
Acts 14:14 classifies Barnabas as in the same sense of being an Apostle as Paul, and 1 Thessalonians 2:6 shows Silvanus and Timothy in the same sense as Paul as Apostles. Those two passages do not separate them into two different kinds of Apostles, but places them as all one and the same.

 

[kennethcadwell]

How many of the OSAS here are baptist or once were? please I would rally like to Know. Also If any one culd help with some answers . I thought that the canonization of the bible was made at the counsel of Nicene or something. Is that true and if it is who was in authority then? I thought Constantine maybe. Please respond if you know. thank you.

I was once in a Baptist church and did at one time believe in OSAS, but after further study and being lead by the Holy Spirit my out look changed as I was shown to many scriptures that conflict that doctrine. Now I am non-denominational and no longer follow that doctrine that I found was started by men in the 4th century.

To your question though here is a little insight to how the bible came together;


For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see alsoDeuteronomy 25:4andLuke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16;1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was theMuratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man,
but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

Heres another, showing Paul was not made so of men or by men by Christ and the Father

Now, does that mean all were equally so? Or no?

I would think shows he does (plurally so) set some in the church as such

1 Cr 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

 

[MarcR]

Trying to discredit them as always with this two different categories that the bible does not do.
Acts 14:14 classifies Barnabas as in the same sense of being an Apostle as Paul, and 1 Thessalonians 2:6 shows Silvanus and Timothy in the same sense as Paul as Apostles. Those two passages do not separate them into two different kinds of Apostles, but places them as all one and the same.

Neither of us seems likely to persuade the other so lets stop needlessly lengthening the thread.

I think you are mistaken. You think I'm mistaken. When the Lord comes back for us it won't matter!

 

[dcontroversal]

Neither of us seems likely to persuade the other so lets stop needlessly lengthening the thread.

I think you are mistaken. You think I'm mistaken. When the Lord comes back for us it won't matter!

The view of apostleship wont matter, but believing in eternal salvation as opposed to you can lose it will matter.......to bad for those who trust in their own abilities, works and self over the work of Christ.....