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I wish to make something very clear here that I should have addressed in the previous post but did not. It needs to be understood that in Greek there is no such thing as a conditional verb or a conditional aorist but this is how some treat the verb παραπεσόντας in Heb 6:6. In Greek there are only three categories of verbs - adjectival, adverbial, and supplemental. The big question is simply this, do we have the right to treat παραπεσόντας as representing a condition? If so why?
Lk 15:8,9 "Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost."
The woman had 10 pieces of silver in her possession, she lost one and goes to look for it and then finds it.
Was the one piece of silver NEVER in her possession? How could she lose it if it were NEVER in her possession?
The woman had 10 pieces of silver in her possession, she lost one and goes to look for it and then finds it.
Was the one piece of silver NEVER in her possession? How could she lose it if it were NEVER in her possession?
If you want to understand justification; look at your word processor:
Right justification aligns text with the right margin. Left justification aligns text with the left margin. Full justification aligns text around an imaginary center crease.
God's justification of believers aligns our will with His!
Right justification aligns text with the right margin. Left justification aligns text with the left margin. Full justification aligns text around an imaginary center crease.
God's justification of believers aligns our will with His!
Gal 5:4 "ye are fallen from grace"
A past tense statement of fact, not a potential event or condition here.
Heb 6:6 is a possible Calvinistic bias of KJV translators:
If they shall fall away.—Rather, and (then) fell away. There is no doubt that the ordinary translation is altogether incorrect, the Greek admitting of one rendering only. At the same time, the suspicion sometimes expressed that this is one of the (very few) instances in which our translators have been misled by dogmatic bias seems altogether unfounded. On tracing back the translation we find it due, not to the Genevan versions, in which the influence of Calvin and Beza is predominant, but to Erasmus, Luther, and Tyndale. The contrast with the preceding description is presented in the fewest possible words. The successive clauses have shown that all the marks of the divine working in and with His word (Hebrews 2:4) have been found in these men, who, notwithstanding, “fell away.”
ELLicott"s Commentary
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E
Yes we do.
why?
1. The author was addressing returning to the law
2. The law states salvation can be lost (one can fall away)
3. Grace teaches one can not fall away, if they could ever fall away, it is not of grace, it is of works.
4. The author is making a statement. If one is saved, and they fall away, they could never be renewed to repentance. Which slams a door on the law as a means of salvation, because if one could fall away as the law says, they are done, no getting resaved. One time deal.
thus saying we must be saved by the law. Puts christ to open shame, and makes his death to no affect (useless)
He continues by talking about even those who do not produce much fruit have not lost their salvation. They may be NEAR to being cursed. having their rewards burnt, but as paul says in Corinthians, they themselves will still be saved.
He continues by saying he has better things for them concerning what comes with salvation. WHich unlike those who return to law. have never participated in (he separated the two. One is saved, and one is not
He tells them they have full assurance of hope till the end, (if their faith is real)
He spoke of Gods UNCONDITIONAL promise to Abraham, and related that same unconditional promise as given to us
He makes a plea. God can not lie, he will keep his oath
Our hope is the anchor of our soul. If we have no hope (salvation can be lost) we have no hope thus have no anchor.
What happens when we have no anchor. We drift away from where we are. we fall back to old things (in the jewish case the law. in the gentil case their old Gods (just like the jews in nbelief did when God freed them from egypt)
Why, Because they never had faith.
Sorry but context must be taken as a whole. we do not just pull verses out of context to make our doctrines.
why?
1. The author was addressing returning to the law
2. The law states salvation can be lost (one can fall away)
3. Grace teaches one can not fall away, if they could ever fall away, it is not of grace, it is of works.
4. The author is making a statement. If one is saved, and they fall away, they could never be renewed to repentance. Which slams a door on the law as a means of salvation, because if one could fall away as the law says, they are done, no getting resaved. One time deal.
thus saying we must be saved by the law. Puts christ to open shame, and makes his death to no affect (useless)
He continues by talking about even those who do not produce much fruit have not lost their salvation. They may be NEAR to being cursed. having their rewards burnt, but as paul says in Corinthians, they themselves will still be saved.
He continues by saying he has better things for them concerning what comes with salvation. WHich unlike those who return to law. have never participated in (he separated the two. One is saved, and one is not
He tells them they have full assurance of hope till the end, (if their faith is real)
He spoke of Gods UNCONDITIONAL promise to Abraham, and related that same unconditional promise as given to us
He makes a plea. God can not lie, he will keep his oath
Our hope is the anchor of our soul. If we have no hope (salvation can be lost) we have no hope thus have no anchor.
What happens when we have no anchor. We drift away from where we are. we fall back to old things (in the jewish case the law. in the gentil case their old Gods (just like the jews in nbelief did when God freed them from egypt)
Why, Because they never had faith.
Sorry but context must be taken as a whole. we do not just pull verses out of context to make our doctrines.
E
so we can fall away from actual grace?
How can this be if grace is not earned?
We can fall from being blessed by grace, like the children of Israel did, when God freed them from slavery, And they fell in unbleief and never entered the promised land. But were they ever saved? I think not.
why is it that people want to boast of their goodness, or their ability to not be like those who fall away from God (place their salvation burden by trusting self) and not boast on God who saved them unconditionally, forever, and based on his work. not our work?
K
Wrong as I do not make rash statements as I have provided constantly in the past over 25 scriptures that show eternal life as an actual physical possession is the ending result of our faith. Most of them come from the Apostle Paul, and Apostle Peter gives one that clearly states this.
Paul (Romans 2:7, 13:11, 1 Timothy 2:10, 4:8, 6:12-19, 1 Thessalonians 5:8, Titus 1:2, 3:7)
Peter (1 Peter 1:4-5, 1:9, 5:10, 2 Peter 1:10-11) Jude (Jude 1:21)
N
I would just simply like to add food for thought. I think in this post and comments there is such agreement, but looked at from different views.
We certainly need faith, no doubt about that. And true faith produces works, no doubt about that. Plug thus into the equation and it makes sense (Philippians 1:6; 2:12-13). God knows His people, who is saved and who is not. Humans on the other hand, live their faith day by day and we are called to examine ourselves daily for a reason. A true Christian will follow Christ and will obey Him, and when they sin they will repent. So having faith doesn't excuse us from doing work. God commanded it and said His people will follow Him. That is a key indicator to us if someone is a Christian or not, not always fool proof but a good sign. The thing we have to see is that we are working out our salvation, but it is God working within a true Christian the entire time. We see it day by day, God has had His people secure all along. Paul in 2 Timothy 4:7, says he has finished the race and kept the faith. Paul lived it day by day, and examined himself daily and was seeking after God and was walking with Christ. But Paul also knew that it was God that saw him through til the end, and Paul was not going to boast of any work before the Lord. So I do agree, from a human perspective we are seeing it day by day and we need to keep the faith and finish the race. But God is already working it out within His people, and knows His people and will see them through to the end. It is simple and yet so complex!! We are seeing God's work through our daily lives and will finally see the big picture at the end.
I don't know if this will help clarify issues, but I hope it does. I honestly think a lot of people are on the same page, just looking at it a bit differently. I am open for correction and welcome sharpening. May we all do it in love and humility, otherwise it defeats the purpose of serving Christ. Thank you!!
We certainly need faith, no doubt about that. And true faith produces works, no doubt about that. Plug thus into the equation and it makes sense (Philippians 1:6; 2:12-13). God knows His people, who is saved and who is not. Humans on the other hand, live their faith day by day and we are called to examine ourselves daily for a reason. A true Christian will follow Christ and will obey Him, and when they sin they will repent. So having faith doesn't excuse us from doing work. God commanded it and said His people will follow Him. That is a key indicator to us if someone is a Christian or not, not always fool proof but a good sign. The thing we have to see is that we are working out our salvation, but it is God working within a true Christian the entire time. We see it day by day, God has had His people secure all along. Paul in 2 Timothy 4:7, says he has finished the race and kept the faith. Paul lived it day by day, and examined himself daily and was seeking after God and was walking with Christ. But Paul also knew that it was God that saw him through til the end, and Paul was not going to boast of any work before the Lord. So I do agree, from a human perspective we are seeing it day by day and we need to keep the faith and finish the race. But God is already working it out within His people, and knows His people and will see them through to the end. It is simple and yet so complex!! We are seeing God's work through our daily lives and will finally see the big picture at the end.
I don't know if this will help clarify issues, but I hope it does. I honestly think a lot of people are on the same page, just looking at it a bit differently. I am open for correction and welcome sharpening. May we all do it in love and humility, otherwise it defeats the purpose of serving Christ. Thank you!!
Sorry Elin,
But singles verses taken out of context can change the meaning of the verses. It is one of the reasons we have so many false DOCTRINES.
God DOES NOT CHANGE.
Ezekiel 18
[h=3]The One Who Sins Will Die[/h]18 The word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]2 [/SUP]“What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife
or have sexual relations with a woman during her period.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He does not lend to them at interest
or take a profit from them.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between two parties.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP](though the father has done none of them):
“He eats at the mountain shrines.
He defiles his neighbor’s wife.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]He oppresses the poor and needy.
He commits robbery.
He does not return what he took in pledge.
He looks to the idols.
He does detestable things.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He lends at interest and takes a profit.
Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he is to be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He does not oppress anyone
or require a pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He withholds his hand from mistreating the poor
and takes no interest or profit from them.
He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.
He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. [SUP]22 [/SUP]None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
[SUP]24[/SUP]“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? [SUP]26[/SUP]If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? [SUP]32 [/SUP]For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
That is a basic premised that HAS NOT CHANGED. It is restated again and again and again in the new testament. It is what the warnings are pointing to.
If anyone can show from scripture that a RIGHTEOUS PERSON is ever an UNBELIEVER please show it.
But singles verses taken out of context can change the meaning of the verses. It is one of the reasons we have so many false DOCTRINES.
God DOES NOT CHANGE.
Ezekiel 18
[h=3]The One Who Sins Will Die[/h]18 The word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]2 [/SUP]“What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife
or have sexual relations with a woman during her period.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He does not lend to them at interest
or take a profit from them.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between two parties.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP](though the father has done none of them):
“He eats at the mountain shrines.
He defiles his neighbor’s wife.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]He oppresses the poor and needy.
He commits robbery.
He does not return what he took in pledge.
He looks to the idols.
He does detestable things.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He lends at interest and takes a profit.
Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he is to be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He does not oppress anyone
or require a pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He withholds his hand from mistreating the poor
and takes no interest or profit from them.
He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.
He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. [SUP]22 [/SUP]None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
[SUP]24[/SUP]“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? [SUP]26[/SUP]If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? [SUP]32 [/SUP]For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
That is a basic premised that HAS NOT CHANGED. It is restated again and again and again in the new testament. It is what the warnings are pointing to.
If anyone can show from scripture that a RIGHTEOUS PERSON is ever an UNBELIEVER please show it.
Ezekiel 18:29 - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trust in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES."
As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trust in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES."
As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.
E
I am defending a passage. And ALL it says.
Not a futile attempt to make it say something which would contradict the rest of the passage.
What I wonder is why you want to make it say something the rest of the passage contradicts.
As I said it is easy. If we return to law. "which says someone could lose salvation (the context of the passage, If a person was saved, and fall away, they could never be renewed to repentance. For they put Christ to open shame.
Again, its not rocket science. It is proper hermeneutics.
E
I asked you if we can fall away from grace, How can that be if we are saved by grace, we could lose grace?
I know what gal 5 says, But what is the context. Losing salvation. Or as the children of Israel did, Fall from Gods salvation, because they never believed it. even though they experienced it by being with moses?
I know what gal 5 says, But what is the context. Losing salvation. Or as the children of Israel did, Fall from Gods salvation, because they never believed it. even though they experienced it by being with moses?
Please put in into CONTEXT
Ezekiel 33
[SUP]12[/SUP]“Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’ [SUP]13[/SUP]If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— [SUP]15 [/SUP]if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die. [SUP]16 [/SUP]None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But it is their way that is not just. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And if a wicked person turns away from their wickedness and does what is just and right, they will live by doing so. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Yet you Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But I will judge each of you according to your own ways.”
Verse 12 has NO QUALIFIERS. That is the WHOLE GROUP. Verse 13 is dealing those WITHIN the group that are trying to trust in their righteousness. Some within the whole group of verse 12 ARE NOT trusting their righteousness,some within the whole group don't care or whatever,but some some WITHIN the group as a whole WILL DO SO. God is speaking to those within the group that will do so.
Ezekiel 33
[SUP]12[/SUP]“Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’ [SUP]13[/SUP]If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— [SUP]15 [/SUP]if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die. [SUP]16 [/SUP]None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But it is their way that is not just. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And if a wicked person turns away from their wickedness and does what is just and right, they will live by doing so. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Yet you Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ But I will judge each of you according to your own ways.”
Verse 12 has NO QUALIFIERS. That is the WHOLE GROUP. Verse 13 is dealing those WITHIN the group that are trying to trust in their righteousness. Some within the whole group of verse 12 ARE NOT trusting their righteousness,some within the whole group don't care or whatever,but some some WITHIN the group as a whole WILL DO SO. God is speaking to those within the group that will do so.
This scripture, in Hebrews 6, is revealing stagnation in religious matters. If one is not growing spiritually, repeating the same doctrines over and over without maturing, this scripture applies. I have gone to church for years and became board with only 3 sermons preached (give or take) and found that the pastor wasn't feeding the flock. We are only born again once. If religion is stagnant, (without daily repentance and direction) it's a false religion that puts Christ to shame simply by the testimony of the stagnate person that proclaims salvation.
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 1 Corinthians 15:31
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
The law is also scripture and can be used by the true believer to grow thereby, along with all other scripture that is accessible to us, putting it together in complete context. Keep in mind that the writers of the New Testament only had the Old Testament writings to read at that time.
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 1 Corinthians 15:31
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
The law is also scripture and can be used by the true believer to grow thereby, along with all other scripture that is accessible to us, putting it together in complete context. Keep in mind that the writers of the New Testament only had the Old Testament writings to read at that time.
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1 Cor 6:9 says the unrighteous SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. This verse is a statement of fact, not a straw man.
Your difficulty is trying to find away to get one to be righteous without having to do any righteous works.
James 2:25 "Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"
Rahab was an unrighteous person, a harlot, that was justified. So here we have a case of God justifying the unrighteous but did God justify Rahab while she did nothing/faith only? No, here the unrighteous was justified by her works.
Your difficulty is trying to find away to get one to be righteous without having to do any righteous works.
James 2:25 "Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"
Rahab was an unrighteous person, a harlot, that was justified. So here we have a case of God justifying the unrighteous but did God justify Rahab while she did nothing/faith only? No, here the unrighteous was justified by her works.