Hebrews 6:1-6

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Precisely so you must fit it to the context.
Wow would you regard the use of this same worn in Rom. 6:6?
ESV - "We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin."
NAS - "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;"
HCS - "For we know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that sin's dominion over the body may be abolished, so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin,"

No matter how you use this word the meaning is the same - Sin has been removed.
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
I agree.....I heard the same thing from my neighbor for years....he was COC as well.....he never could understand the fact that the completed work of Christ and the righteousness of Christ being applied by faith unto a believer equaled eternal life and a righteous standing before God even while being bound in a dead body of sin.....
What is your problem with the Church of Christ?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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6 If they shall fall away,(kai parapesontas) and having fallen away. On this expression, Dr. Macknight remarks as follows: "The verbs photisthentas, geusamenous, and genethentas, being all aorists, are rightly rendered by our translators in the past time; who were enlightened, have tasted, and were made partakers. Wherefore, parapesontas, being an aorist, ought likewise to have been translated in past time, have fallen away. Nevertheless, our translators following Beza, who without any authority from ancient manuscripts, inserted in his version the word si (if), have rendered this clause, 'if they shall fall away'; that this text might not appear to contradict the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints.
Well my Bible does not have IF in it. And I am sure that there must be many others.



It is therefore possible that a man may have been once enlightened,
But what does it mean to be enlightened? Anyone who hears the Gospel and understands it is enlightened. And many hear it and reject it. Israel were enlightened in Egypt and in the wilderness, but they still fell away. It means light has shone on them.
#
and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
These men had tasted of the heavenly gift. God had borne them witness by sign and wonders and manifold powers (Heb 2.3). Israel had similarly tasted of the heavenly gift both in Egypt and in the wilderness. But they were still in unbelief..

and been made a partaker of the Holy Spirit,
Better translated, 'and have gone along with (have shared in) the Holy Spirit.' It indicates experiencing the work of the Spirit on them. But many have experienced the Holy Spirit working on them and have finally refused to respond. It was the experience of Israel in the wilderness (Isaiah 63.9-11).

and that he may have experienced the blessed sanctifying influences of the good word of God,
a slightly exaggerated translation. RV has, 'have tasted of the good word of God.' They had been moved by the word of God which had spoken in their hearts. But that has happened to many who have finally not believed. The Israelites in the wilderness certainly tasted the good word of God, and finally rejected it.

sustained and supported by the powerful demonstrations of the reign of Heaven,
Literally, 'and (have tasted of) the powers of the age to come'. they had experienced supernatural manifestations.

such things have happened in times of revival. Certainly the children of Israel had experienced such manifestations in the wilderness. But they were still unbelieving.

No one is doubting that these people had experienced the power of God in unusual ways. But there is no hint that they had 'believed'. Indeed the idea of faith is remarkably lacking. Many must have had the same experiences when they listened to Paul and saw what he did, and we find the same in Acts. But not all believed. What he is warning is of the great danger of having had such privileges and rejecting them. The Pharisees had had them when facing Jesus. They too were warned of the danger if they refused to believe.

and nevertheless fall away beyond the reach of recovery
.

sadly that happens to many who are remarkably challenged by God.

to renew them again to repentance.
They have 'blasphemed again the Holy Spirit' just as the Pharisees were in danger of doing when they saw the heavenly work of Jesus Christ and refused to believe.

It is foolish to suggest that an ordinary backslider ever finds himself in this position. Christ seeks them until He finds them. It is clearly an unusual situation.

It suggests that God had done a great work among these Hebrews, and many had responded. But some were holding back and received his warning/
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
Well my Bible does not have IF in it. And I am sure that there must be many others.





But what does it mean to be enlightened? Anyone who hears the Gospel and understands it is enlightened. And many hear it and reject it. Israel were enlightened in Egypt and in the wilderness, but they still fell away. It means light has shone on them.
#


These men had tasted of the heavenly gift. God had borne them witness by sign and wonders and manifold powers (Heb 2.3). Israel had similarly tasted of the heavenly gift both in Egypt and in the wilderness. But they were still in unbelief..



Better translated, 'and have gone along with (have shared in) the Holy Spirit.' It indicates experiencing the work of the Spirit on them. But many have experienced the Holy Spirit working on them and have finally refused to respond. It was the experience of Israel in the wilderness (Isaiah 63.9-11).



a slightly exaggerated translation. RV has, 'have tasted of the good word of God.' They had been moved by the word of God which had spoken in their hearts. But that has happened to many who have finally not believed. The Israelites in the wilderness certainly tasted the good word of God, and finally rejected it.



Literally, 'and (have tasted of) the powers of the age to come'. they had experienced supernatural manifestations.

such things have happened in times of revival. Certainly the children of Israel had experienced such manifestations in the wilderness. But they were still unbelieving.

No one is doubting that these people had experienced the power of God in unusual ways. But there is no hint that they had 'believed'. Indeed the idea of faith is remarkably lacking. Many must have had the same experiences when they listened to Paul and saw what he did, and we find the same in Acts. But not all believed. What he is warning is of the great danger of having had such privileges and rejecting them. The Pharisees had had them when facing Jesus. They too were warned of the danger if they refused to believe.

.

sadly that happens to many who are remarkably challenged by God.



They have 'blasphemed again the Holy Spirit' just as the Pharisees were in danger of doing when they saw the heavenly work of Jesus Christ and refused to believe.

It is foolish to suggest that an ordinary backslider ever finds himself in this position. Christ seeks them until He finds them. It is clearly an unusual situation.

It suggests that God had done a great work among these Hebrews, and many had responded. But some were holding back and received his warning/
And what bible do you read?
 
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What is your problem with the Church of Christ?
No offence, but I will pass.....I simply quoted scripture yesterday to you and got raked over the coals and my Marine Corp service to this country was mouthed and disrespected by you and like most people you will not apologize for your comments....

At the end of the day doctrine......the bible does not teach the following and I will not argue and or discuss with you for sure...

1. Temporary eternal life/salvation and the ability to lose salvation
2. Salvation by water, works and or church affiliation
3. That it is sinful to use instruments in the worship of God

DISCLAIMER...I am sorry if this offends you.......!
 
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Ever read galations or hebrews? or james?

It says if your going to be justified by works, your indebted to keep the whole law. Thats exactly what it says.




you do not think the pharisees obeyed God out of obedience? you do not know them very well they had a true heart for God they just like you did not see how sinful they were. so they could not recieve Christ as their messiah.




Oh so I can be puffed up about Gods work?? lol. talk about a strawman.





Jesus said IT is finished.

He did not say I am finished.

you need some reading glasses?

No verse says God expects the Christian to keep Christ's law flawlessly to be justified. The argument Paul makes in the Galatian epistle is some in Galatia had LEFT the NT gospel returning back to the law of Moses thinking they could be justified by keeping circumcision as that OT law required. Paul's point to them is they have an obligation to keep the WHOLE OT law not just cherry pick out circumcision. Paul is not implying in any way that the Christian must keep the NT law of Christ flawlessly to be justified/freed from sin.

Those that lived under the OT laws did not have the blood of Christ to completely remit their sins but only had the blood of bulls and goats and there was remembrance of their sins year to year. But if the Jew could keep the OT law flawlessly then he would not have any sin and could stand before God justified having earned it and it not be of grace, Rom 4:4 and Abraham was not one that tried to work to keep the OT law flawlessly but had an obedient faith, verse 5.
But the Jew would inevitably sin bringing God's wrath and condemnation upon him.


Under the NT we DO have the blood of Christ whereby all sins can be cleansed away whereby there is "no condemnation to them that are in Christ" for they have all their sins remitted and remembered no more leaving then holy and without blame whereby flawless law keeping of Christ's NT is not required.


If you can claim I can be "puffed up" by doing what is my duty do to in obeying God's commands (Lk 17:10) then there is no reason I cannot say you can be "puffed up" by your "trusting God".


When Jesus said "it" is finished does not refers to man doing his role in his own salvation and that is why Christ said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life, Jn 6:27.
Jn 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." Christ finished His work He was sent to do. Now you have your work to do in obeying Christ to be saved. Heb 5:9.
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
No offence, but I will pass.....I simply quoted scripture yesterday to you and got raked over the coals and my Marine Corp service to this country was mouthed and disrespected by you and like most people you will not apologize for your comments....

At the end of the day doctrine......the bible does not teach the following and I will not argue and or discuss with you for sure...

1. Temporary salvation and the ability to lose salvation
2. Salvation by water, works and or church affiliation
3. That it is sinful to use instruments in the worship of God

DISCLAIMER...I am sorry if this offends you.......!
That says something about you if you cannot support your scripture. I am not offended by somebody like you, you are sarcastic and arrogant. I do not see any Christianity from you.
 
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THis isn't anywhere close to biblical belief. This is legalism at best, heresy at worst. You desperately need to rethink what you "believe" because it is sending you far off the path of Christ.

continued obedient faith+++++continued cleansing blood of Christ>>>>holy and without blame.

This is 1 Jn 1:7 where ""IF"" the Christian continues to walk in the light then Christ's blood continues to cleanse away all sin. This continual cleansing away of ALL sin is what keeps the Christian spotless and blameless, but this cannot happen without the Christians' continual walk in the light.

1 Jn 1:7 walking in the light is not "legalism" but is doing God's righteousness.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No verse says God expects the Christian to keep Christ's law flawlessly to be justified. The argument Paul makes in the Galatian epistle is some in Galatia had LEFT the NT gospel returning back to the law of Moses thinking they could be justified by keeping circumcision as that OT law required. Paul's point to them is they have an obligation to keep the WHOLE OT law not just cherry pick out circumcision. Paul is not implying in any way that the Christian must keep the NT law of Christ flawlessly to be justified/freed from sin.

Those that lived under the OT laws did not have the blood of Christ to completely remit their sins but only had the blood of bulls and goats and there was remembrance of their sins year to year. But if the Jew could keep the OT law flawlessly then he would not have any sin and could stand before God justified having earned it and it not be of grace, Rom 4:4 and Abraham was not one that tried to work to keep the OT law flawlessly but had an obedient faith, verse 5.
But the Jew would inevitably sin bringing God's wrath and condemnation upon him.


Under the NT we DO have the blood of Christ whereby all sins can be cleansed away whereby there is "no condemnation to them that are in Christ" for they have all their sins remitted and remembered no more leaving then holy and without blame whereby flawless law keeping of Christ's NT is not required.


If you can claim I can be "puffed up" by doing what is my duty do to in obeying God's commands (Lk 17:10) then there is no reason I cannot say you can be "puffed up" by your "trusting God".


When Jesus said "it" is finished does not refers to man doing his role in his own salvation and that is why Christ said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life, Jn 6:27.
Jn 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." Christ finished His work He was sent to do. Now you have your work to do in obeying Christ to be saved. Heb 5:9.
Dude.

The bible says there are two ways to heaven.

Self righteousness (the law)

Gods righteousnes through Faith in Christ (alone)

thats it.

Your trying to replace the law with other works will not help you. If you could save yourself. Christ died in vein.

He said it is finished, because Gods plan for salvation was finished, Christ fulfilled the law. so it can not condemn you anymore.


But you must trust him, Or the law will still condemn you.


If you want to work for it. Good luck. You will fail. Just like the pharisees did.
 
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That says something about you if you cannot support your scripture. I am not offended by somebody like you, you are sarcastic and arrogant. I do not see any Christianity from you.
Well...good for you...you are not my judge and don't recall saying I cannot support my doctrine......and if you judge my Christianity by the bolded above then you are in the same boat and should look in the mirror.......let me go cut and paste your mouthy comment yesterday when all I did was post a scripture......

.So you equate man's best friend to a "beast?" Has a dog ever protected you, or are you just wearing that cap? Dog's are here to protect and serve, if you do not believe that, turn your hat around.

 
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MsLimpet

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Well...good for you...you are not my judge and don't recall saying I cannot support my doctrine......and if you judge my Christianity by the bolded above then you are in the same boat and should look in the mirror.......let me go cut and paste your mouthy comment yesterday when all I did was post a scripture......
See, there you go again.

When a Christian lovingly and graciously presents the gospel to unbelievers, a judgment is made regarding their standing with God. The Bible clearly declares that all men are sinners, have fallen short of the glory of God, and are in need of redemption from their sins (Romans 3:23). This judgment is not made from the opinion of the Christian who is presenting the gospel but rather by what the Bible clearly declares.
 
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See, there you go again.

When a Christian lovingly and graciously presents the gospel to unbelievers, a judgment is made regarding their standing with God. The Bible clearly declares that all men are sinners, have fallen short of the glory of God, and are in need of redemption from their sins (Romans 3:23). This judgment is not made from the opinion of the Christian who is presenting the gospel but rather by what the Bible clearly declares.
Kind of like yesterday when all I did was post a set of verses to your question and you came back with nothing but mouthy comments? Whatever!
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
Kind of like yesterday when all I did was post a set of verses to your question and you came back with nothing but mouthy comments? Whatever!
Good Christian attitude!
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
You bet and thanks I appreciate it.........
I will not tell you what I think of you, but stay away from me and I will not post to any of your arrogant, know it all attitude. You think you look so important with your soldiers hat and it is probably a fake. Do not reply to me and I am done with you!
 
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I will not tell you what I think of you, but stay away from me and I will not post to any of your arrogant, know it all attitude. You think you look so important with your soldiers hat and it is probably a fake. Do not reply to me and I am done with you!
My, MY how fast your Christian attitude turns vehement.....and now you judge and accuse my service in the Marine Corp as fake and not real.....I will be the first to admit that I do not know it all..no one does except God, but make no mistake I will make a stand on the truth and what I believe to be truth just as everyone in here does....your true colors shine forth here in this post and this is the second time that you accused my service in the Corp of being fake.....is that the brand of Christianity you spread?

Don't worry I will pray for you for sure!
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
My, MY how fast your Christian attitude turns vehement.....and now you judge and accuse my service in the Marine Corp as fake and not real.....I will be the first to admit that I do not know it all..no one does except God, but make no mistake I will make a stand on the truth and what I believe to be truth just as everyone in here does....your true colors shine forth here in this post and this is the second time that you accused my service in the Corp of being fake.....is that the brand of Christianity you spread?

Don't worry I will pray for you for sure!
If you would tell the truth then you would not have a problem in telling this forum which bible you read. You are right, we do not know it all so don't act like you do. You are not forth coming in anything so why should I believe you?
 
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Dude.

The bible says there are two ways to heaven.

Self righteousness (the law)

Gods righteousnes through Faith in Christ (alone)

thats it.

Your trying to replace the law with other works will not help you. If you could save yourself. Christ died in vein.

He said it is finished, because Gods plan for salvation was finished, Christ fulfilled the law. so it can not condemn you anymore.


But you must trust him, Or the law will still condemn you.


If you want to work for it. Good luck. You will fail. Just like the pharisees did.

The bible does not teach self-righteousness is a way to heaven for the Jews were lost [Rom 10:3] going about doing their own righteousness.

I have nowhere said one is to keep the OT law to be saved, but obey Christ's NT law to be saved.

No verse says "it is finished" means man has nothing to do in his own salvation, that idea is ADDED to scripture.


Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life...no work = no everlasting life.
 
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If you would tell the truth then you would not have a problem in telling this forum which bible you read. You are right, we do not know it all so don't act like you do. You are not forth coming in anything so why should I believe you?
Well, I don't know where you get that I am not forthcoming in anything as I have made almost 11,000 posts in cc and I regularly quote scripture or reference scripture so I don't know where you get that at....I have also changed my mind on a few things when proven that I was missing the mark so I don't know where you get that I think I know it all and have even said that I have no clue on some things...so.....

I predominantly study out of a Black Letter Edition, Berkshire Leather Cambridge King James, I go to the Greek and Hebrew to study all words, I have a Jewish Tanach that I occasionally consult to see how the Jews translated a particular verse or phrase and I also have a NASB in both Greek and English.....I have about 7 theological dictionaries concerning the Greek so as to study the N.T. along with a library of about 50 books including 7 bible dictionaries of the which I study out of.

And for the record...I was a United States Marine in the 80's and was HONORABLY discharged after serving.
 
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