Hebrews 6:1-6

Jeff_56 · Apr 6, 2015

time to read the BIBLE.(GOD'S WORD). YHWH describes in detail how HIS people (a) wash themselves to be clean (b) are washed by HIM to be clean (c) and other as or if you have time to ask YHWH for HIS instruction.
HIS INSTRUCTION in this is extremely profitable in HIS PLAN , PURPOSE in YAHSHUA, and LIFE.

mailmandan · Apr 6, 2015

SeaBass said:

Continued faith+++++continued cleansing blood of Christ>>>>holy and without blame. Obedience/good works which follow are the fruit of saving faith in Christ and not the means of our salvation. Will you ever come to understand that? From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith in Christ and is NOT BY WORKS (Ephesians 2:9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5).

Those who trust in works salvation have not even begun to walk in the light but remain in darkness. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. In regards to 1 John 1:6-7, you need to read verse 6 and 7 together. 1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth(compare with 1 John 3:10 - ..Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God). But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of lost unbelievers. Walking in the light is descriptive of saved believers. Only saved believers are in the light, as we saw in Acts 26:18. Also in 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? Ephesians 5:8 - For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light. Lost unbelievers walk in darkness, not in the light. Genuine saved believers walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other. John mentions nothing about a third camp made up of believers who refuse to continue to walk in the light.

Walking in the light is not legalism, but misinterpreting 1 John 1:7 to teach salvation by works is legalism. 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

1 John 2:9 - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now - (descriptive of a lost unbeliever). 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him - (descriptive of a saved believer). 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes - (descriptive of a lost unbeliever). *Compare 1 John 1:6-7 with 1 John 2:9-11 and 1 John 3:10.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 6, 2015

DesiredHaven said:

Oh no, I dont believe those branches that dont continue to abide in him (and bear the fruit that comes by the Vine/ Christ) are even his.

Jesus shows how the Father takes those branches (which bear no fruit) away.

But I agree that Christ died for sinners, and our fruit is by Him, so no fruit (no abiding) and Jesus tells us what the Father does with those branches.

Does speak of trees whose fruit actually withereth too, almost as if once abiding and had their fruit but are not anymore (as their fruit is withereth) it says, so not just once dead but twice dead (as it is put)

But ofcourse how certain things are understood (or pushed away) and scurried around would definately depend on which angle certain are coming from (or what camp angle). Thats why I just prefer the scripture and less of my words because my words my seek to corrupt the straightness of his words and seek to bend them in an argument (towards the camp, or angle I love more then him) or something (as one might say). I always try to keep very conscience of that.

So however each camp sees that, I see as I see it as well, and try to stay out of going outside of them and wrest them down in my own words (as leading as our words can become).

God bless

I would just say cutting a branch of just means they have no capacity to bear fruit until thy are grafted in again.

It does not mean they are not saved.

again going to heb 6 and 1 corinthians. There will be many in heaven who were saved by fire, yet they had no rewards, because they produced little or no fruit

DesiredHaven · Apr 6, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

People are of different understanding on the matter ofcourse, sure.

Viligant_Warrior · Apr 6, 2015

MsLimpet said:

Read SeaBass's posts on this thread, and you will see. Sorry if that offends you as a member of the CoC, but they preach a mixture of Law and Christ that is unbiblical.

MsLimpet · Apr 6, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Really? Can you tell me scripturally what is unbiblical about the Church of Christ?

SarahM777 · Apr 7, 2015

SeaBass said:

No verse says God expects the Christian to keep Christ's law flawlessly to be justified. The argument Paul makes in the Galatian epistle is some in Galatia had LEFT the NT gospel returning back to the law of Moses thinking they could be justified by keeping circumcision as that OT law required. Paul's point to them is they have an obligation to keep the WHOLE OT law not just cherry pick out circumcision. Paul is not implying in any way that the Christian must keep the NT law of Christ flawlessly to be justified/freed from sin.

Those that lived under the OT laws did not have the blood of Christ to completely remit their sins but only had the blood of bulls and goats and there was remembrance of their sins year to year. But if the Jew could keep the OT law flawlessly then he would not have any sin and could stand before God justified having earned it and it not be of grace, Rom 4:4 and Abraham was not one that tried to work to keep the OT law flawlessly but had an obedient faith, verse 5.
But the Jew would inevitably sin bringing God's wrath and condemnation upon him.

Under the NT we DO have the blood of Christ whereby all sins can be cleansed away whereby there is "no condemnation to them that are in Christ" for they have all their sins remitted and remembered no more leaving then holy and without blame whereby flawless law keeping of Christ's NT is not required.

If you can claim I can be "puffed up" by doing what is my duty do to in obeying God's commands (Lk 17:10) then there is no reason I cannot say you can be "puffed up" by your "trusting God".

When Jesus said "it" is finished does not refers to man doing his role in his own salvation and that is why Christ said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life, Jn 6:27.
Jn 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." Christ finished His work He was sent to do. Now you have your work to do in obeying Christ to be saved. Heb 5:9.

What is at the root of doing His commands? If the motive is wrong,doing them are MEANINGLESS and they do BECOME self righteous acts. What is the motive for doing so?

SarahM777 · Apr 7, 2015

The other side of the coin is How can one say they LOVE HIM if one will not do? If ones does not repent of their sins BECAUSE they have wronged Him how can you say you love Him? If one is not baptized then HOW can that person really say they love Him? If one refuses to OBEY HIM how can one truly say they love Him?

seed_time_harvest · Apr 7, 2015

It's true that Faith without works is dead.If the faith is true it will produce and action that will be physically perceived by men but faith pleases GOD.

GOD looks at the heart,man looks at the outward appearances.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 7, 2015

DesiredHaven said:

yes they are, but thats not a good thing. there is one gospel. if people differ here. then they are not teaching the same gospel.

Viligant_Warrior · Apr 7, 2015

MsLimpet said:

What part of "mixture of Law and Christ" didn't you get?

How about the false teachings of baptismal regeneration, works-based salvation, "lost" salvation, among others?

MsLimpet · Apr 7, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

You did not provide scripture to dispute your claims. Baptism is not for regeneration, it is a command for the remission of our sins.

[HR][/HR]
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[HR][/HR] Matthew 20:22 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Jesus answered and said, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They said to Him, "We are able."
[HR][/HR] Matthew 20:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]So He said to them, "You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father."
[HR][/HR] Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[HR][/HR] Mark 1:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
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[HR][/HR] Mark 1:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
[HR][/HR] Mark 10:38 (NKJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?"
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[HR][/HR] Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
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Matthew 16:18-20 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

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DesiredHaven · Apr 7, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

I think everyone is aware that there is error and the truth.

Having a love for the truth is a good thing though.

I believe these will get the correct one.

No one thinks their own spin on the gospel is false.

So if others are observing any of these debates have the love of the truth in them these wont be deceived by the twisting of scriptures which typically occurs on both sides. They will be making a note of it.

They will come to their own conclusions even by testing all things (as we all should).

Jimbone · Apr 7, 2015

DesiredHaven said:

Well apparently some think we are to "argue" each other into truth being as nasty to each other as we possibly can. That was how I got saved, someone was just so rude to me I decided to submit (/S). Because only “certain people” here have the truth, and they must be the God appointed authority on this earth (at least that’s the way they present it). You better listen to them or you’ll find yourself in the lake of fire. What did you think we were supposed to love each other? Even correcting each other with love, and in private. Where would you get a crazy idea like that? Also where in the bible does it say I’m not to judge others salvation and constantly argue, (in 100% arrogant pride BTW) and tell folks how wrong they are and how they don’t even know God. Where does it say that?

DesiredHaven · Apr 7, 2015

Jimbone said:

Well apparently some think we are to "argue" each other into truth being as nasty to each other as we possibly can. That was how I got saved, someone was just so rude to me I decided to submit (/S). Because only “certain people” here have the truth, and they must be the God appointed authority on this earth (at least that’s the way they present it). You better listen to them or you’ll find yourself in the lake of fire. What did you think we were supposed to love each other? Even correcting each other with love, and in private. Where would you get a crazy idea like that? Also where in the bible does it say I’m not to judge others salvation and constantly argue, (in 100% arrogant pride BTW) and tell folks how wrong they are and how they don’t even know God.Where does it say that?

Hey Jimbone,

Couldnt tell ya, you are asking the wrong person.

Elin · Apr 7, 2015

SeaBass said:

It also shows it is not possible for one to be a servant of faith when he has never believed at all.

SeaBass · Apr 8, 2015

Elin said:

True, and is also true in that it is not possible for one to be a servant of righteousness/be righteous having never done any righteousness at all.

SeaBass · Apr 8, 2015

SarahM777 said:

Love.

Jesus said if y e love me keep my commandments.

Now the question is can one be saved who does not love Christ/not keep His commandments?

SarahM777 · Apr 8, 2015

SeaBass said:

By NOT obeying His commands one shows they do NOT believe Him or LOVE Him.

SeaBass · Apr 8, 2015

mailmandan said:

"Walking in the light" where walking is a work, an obedient work in doing what the word of Christ, the light, says to do.

Lk 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

Gen 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

Lev 18:4 "Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God."

Lev 26:3,12 "If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;....And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.....And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me....Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins."

1 Kings 8:61 "Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day."

Rom 4:12 "And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised."

I could have posted more verses on an obedient walking but according to you, all the walking cited above is legalism.....unless you argue one can be saved by NOT keeping Christ's commands/NOT walking in the light/NOt walking according to Christ's word.

Col 2:12-14 I have faith/trust in the work of God when He did the work of removing my body of sin when I obeyed in submitting to water baptism. Some do not have this faith/trust in God refusing to be baptized where by God will cut away their body of sin also.

Hebrews 6:1-6

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