The Correct Path

[dcontroversal]

Below is the correct order and how it unfolds.....

1. The natural man cannot know, discern and or spiritually understand the word of God as it is foolishness unto him and he cannot KNOW IT.
2. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God
3. In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH<--salvation is the result of faith (out of faith)
4. Being saved allows for being transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may put to the test what is that good and acceptable will of GOD
5. By having number 1, thru 4 a person is
a. Born from above and has the spirit so as to compare spiritual with spiritual and can now understand the word of God and how to apply it
b. Can now do number 4 on the list and begin to be transform outside because of the transformation on the inside (Trasformed <---comes from a Greek word that we get metamorphoses from) Change outside because of the change inward....a buttery fly is a caterpillar and is changed into a butterfly due to metamorphoses
C. A man that is saved by faith which is born from above who has begun to take the word of God and understand what it means and how to apply it can in turn begin to grow and produce fruit and do the works that have already been prepared before the casting down of the world........

A man that is already SAVED by FAITH, having had the righteousness of GOD imputed by faith as a gift (saved, born again), who is now sanctified in Christ (positionally) and sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of God, can now and only now begin to understand the word which will shape, form and fashion him after the workings of CHRIST. Then and only then can they do the works that were prepared for the ALREADY CHILDREN OF GOD BY FAITH.

The just shall love by faith......
But with out faith (a clear spiritual gift 1st Corinthians 13) it is impossible to please God......

What is first on the list.......FAITH=HOPE--->RESULTS IN LOVE (this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not heard to bear (love God and love your neighbor)

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE (first on the list is faith (believe=save)
If you believe in you heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved (Faith first on the list (believe=saved)
With the heart man BELIEVETH unto righteousness (faith first on the list=unto righteousness)
Therefore being justified by FAITH (faith first on the list=justified-->rendered legally innocent before God)

Faith has always come before works.....and faith is a GIFT FROM GOD........WORKS do not add to, facilitate, or get the free gift of FAITH.......

Faith which saves and makes it all possible.....see the numbered list above again

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Agree 100% Faith is a Gift from God.. He revealed Himself to me in such a powerful way that it Helped me to believe.. That was from Him, the ability to believe on Him.. not only that but to understand His Unmerited goodness in my life that I had done nothing to 'warrant'.. but it was because He loved me from the Foundation of the World. and on that certain day in 1994 He Saved me.. He knew that before dirt and time was Created.. He Ordained and Decreed that He would save me on that day in 1994.. whether I wanted to be saved or not.. He was going to Save Me... You cant run from God.. if You are Ordained for His Un merited Grace and Eternal LIFE Which He Grants to you. You will 'know' Him.. and He will show you where He paid for youR life.. it wasnt on tv giving your money to avarice preachers or teachers... no He Paid for your life at the Bloody Tree. He gave Himself for you. thats purdy amazing and Marvelous! when you come to that realization. then you Truly are not Far from the Kingdom of Heaven.. for it Flows thru that bloody tree and the One who was the Appeasement, Christ, God manifest in the flesh.. the carnal man, the weed-tares, this is foolishness to them. It truly Is. because they have added something to or taken away something from that Redeeming Propitiation.. His Elect Understand.. oh Indeed.. to God be the Glory!

 

[dcontroversal]

Agree 100% Faith is a Gift from God.. He revealed Himself to me in such a powerful way that it Helped me to believe.. That was from Him, the ability to believe on Him.. not only that but to understand His Unmerited goodness in my life that I had done nothing to 'warrant'.. but it was because He loved me from the Foundation of the World. and on that certain day in 1994 He Saved me.. He knew that before dirt and time was Created.. He Ordained and Decreed that He would save me on that day in 1994.. whether I wanted to be saved or not.. He was going to Save Me... You cant run from God.. if You are Ordained for His Un merited Grace and Eternal LIFE Which He Grants to you. You will 'know' Him.. and He will show you where He paid for youR life.. it wasnt on tv giving your money to avarice preachers or teachers... no He Paid for your life at the Bloody Tree. He gave Himself for you. thats purdy amazing and Marvelous! when you come to that realization. then you Truly are not Far from the Kingdom of Heaven.. for it Flows thru that bloody tree and the One who was the Appeasement, Christ, God manifest in the flesh.. the carnal man, the weed-tares, this is foolishness to them. It truly Is. because they have added something to or taken away something from that Redeeming Propitiation.. His Elect Understand.. oh Indeed.. to God be the Glory!

Amen to that and love to bow hunt as well....

 

[buttons]

If you believed you are saved, even having a renewal of your mind, and find your self in a situation that you reacted wrong, but having a difficulty forgiving yourself,,

 

[dcontroversal]

If you believed you are saved, even having a renewal of your mind, and find your self in a situation that you reacted wrong, but having a difficulty forgiving yourself,,

Paul said to forget the past and press on toward the mark and high calling of our Lord Jesus.....what exactly is your point and or what are you trying to say?

 

[Vernon]

I like what you had to say , my only addition is that faith comes to us by the grace of God, without his grace none would have the faith to be saved, so it is by grace alone that we are saved. ( my catholic understanding) Love you, brother in Christ.

 

[wattie]

My question is: Can someone be converted without first being convicted of their need for salvation?

I don't think someone can.. but I do know someone is saved by grace thru faith in Christ. So does that faith need to be exercised out of conviction first?

I guess someone believing without conviction is pretty much false conversion?

Penny for your thoughts..

Or two cents..

 

[crossnote]

My question is: Can someone be converted without first being convicted of their need for salvation?

I don't think someone can.. but I do know someone is saved by grace thru faith in Christ. So does that faith need to be exercised out of conviction first?

I guess someone believing without conviction is pretty much false conversion?

Penny for your thoughts..

Or two cents..

I would agree with this and what was missing in the OP, was the enlightening work of the Holy Spirit both convicting us of our sin and opening our eyes and heart to the fact that Jesus is truly the Son of God.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

My question is: Can someone be converted without first being convicted of their need for salvation?

Nope, we have to surrender our life to Christ Jesus by throwing ourselves on the mercy seat being totally convicted of our sins. However many think conversion is a altar call or public acknowledgement of belief in Christ even though they have never surrendered their life to God.

I don't think someone can.. but I do know someone is saved by grace thru faith in Christ. So does that faith need to be exercised out of conviction first?

We believed in Christ,
had exercised our faith, and were sealed with the promise of His Holy Spirit before we were convicted of our sins which eventually brought us to conversion when we surrendered our life to Christ and experienced the dawning of His Holy Spirit in our hearts having been cleansed and completely forgiven by Christ and His blood.

I guess someone believing without conviction is pretty much false conversion?

Mental accent is not true faith it can never convict to bring about a real conversion. As seen by the example of the Pharisee and the tax collector.

Penny for your thoughts..

only a penny geesh!

Or two cents..

Well you strike a hard bargain sir.......deal!.......

I would agree with this and what was missing in the OP, was the enlightening work of the Holy Spirit both convicting us of our sin and opening our eyes and heart to the factthat Jesus is truly the Son of God.

Amen, brother crossnote, but it was still a fine OP....... got us all thinking and speaking in a edifying way, i'd rather be here than in some other threads i aint even gonna mention

Romans 8:12-17
12So then, brothers,[SUP]e[/SUP] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons[SUP]f[/SUP] of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Btw please forgive me for jumping in here brother Dc but i felt it necessary to speak. Thank you for another edifying thread

 

[royalscot]

I would agree with this and what was missing in the OP, was the enlightening work of the Holy Spirit both convicting us of our sin and opening our eyes and heart to the fact that Jesus is truly the Son of God.[/QUOTE
sorry i had to add this to bring the two quotes together.

what law convicts , a gentile of sin.(acts 15) even a believer has romans 8 v 1
when was Cornelius convicted of sin, or told to repent.Acts 10
cornelius first believe jesus is the son of god.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal


its the truth that sets you free.is there a god or is there not a god. what dose this god require. etc
li

Originally Posted by wattie

My question is: Can someone be converted without first being convicted of their need for salvation?

I don't think someone can.. but I do know someone is saved by grace thru faith in Christ. So does that faith need to be exercised out of conviction first?

I guess someone believing without conviction is pretty much false conversion?

Penny for your thoughts..


Or two cents..fe.John 3

 

[buttons]

Paul said to forget the past and press on toward the mark and high calling of our Lord Jesus.....what exactly is your point and or what are you trying to say?

I suppose, thanks,,

 

[Ella85]

I agree and Amen!

It can take a lifetime in some cases for someone to come to the truth.
Although without faith, the truth will never shine.
It seems the ones who lack faith are also the ones who lack hope, they are spiritually dead and do not have a clear path ahead of them.
There are some that believe that being a good person will get you into heaven and that the Lord will recognize this as doing His will, although without having a true relationship with Christ, these things are done out for ones self instead of to please the Lord.
Time and time again throughout the bible we see several verses that the Lord blesses those who are faithful servants. The ones who put Him first and pray about ceasing.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.


Thank you for your thread, as always it is very encouraging to read your posts

 

[crossnote]

what law convicts , a gentile of sin.(acts 15) even a believer has romans 8 v 1
when was Cornelius convicted of sin, or told to repent.Acts 10
cornelius first believe jesus is the son of god.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal


its the truth that sets you free.is there a god or is there not a god. what dose this god require. etc
li

Originally Posted by wattie

My question is: Can someone be converted without first being convicted of their need for salvation?

I don't think someone can.. but I do know someone is saved by grace thru faith in Christ. So does that faith need to be exercised out of conviction first?

I guess someone believing without conviction is pretty much false conversion?

Penny for your thoughts..


Or two cents..fe.John 3

Jesus answered that by saying the healthy have no need of a physician. One must see their need (their sinful state) before they see any need to come to Jesus AS SAVIOR.

 

[SeaBass]

--The natural man can read the word of God/hear the word of God preached and understand what is read/preached. Many examples of this in the bible as Acts 7:54.

--If faith is a gift in the sense man can only have faith if given to him by God, the God becomes morally culpable for all those that are faithless.

--Faith is work, 1 Thess 1:3; Mk 2:1-5, faith is dead if it is not a work.

 

[MarcR]

If you believed you are saved, even having a renewal of your mind, and find your self in a situation that you reacted wrong, but having a difficulty forgiving yourself,,

Jesus said you are forgiven. you can argue wiyh him about it; but what is the point.

 

[dcontroversal]

--The natural man can read the word of God/hear the word of God preached and understand what is read/preached. Many examples of this in the bible as Acts 7:54.

--If faith is a gift in the sense man can only have faith if given to him by God, the God becomes morally culpable for all those that are faithless.

--Faith is work, 1 Thess 1:3; Mk 2:1-5, faith is dead if it is not a work.

You know...every time you open your mouth you end up posting things that are contrary to the truth...I suggest you actually trust Jesus, get saved and start studying the word of God....

1st Corinthians 2:14 But the NATURAL MAN receiveth not the things of the spirit of GOD: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him: NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.

JESUS spoke in parables because it was not given unto them to KNOW the word of God...

And FAITH is a SPIRITUAL GIFT.....1st Corinthian 13 and GOD HAS DEALT to every man a MEASURE of faith....

The two sets of scriptures you gave have nothing at all to do with saving faith...I suggest you study the word of God in light of the gospel and the truth as opposed to your working for salvation COC doctrine.....It is evident you have no clue!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said you are forgiven. you can argue wiyh him about it; but what is the point.

AMEN to that for sure.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree and Amen!

It can take a lifetime in some cases for someone to come to the truth.
Although without faith, the truth will never shine.
It seems the ones who lack faith are also the ones who lack hope, they are spiritually dead and do not have a clear path ahead of them.
There are some that believe that being a good person will get you into heaven and that the Lord will recognize this as doing His will, although without having a true relationship with Christ, these things are done out for ones self instead of to please the Lord.
Time and time again throughout the bible we see several verses that the Lord blesses those who are faithful servants. The ones who put Him first and pray about ceasing.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.


Thank you for your thread, as always it is very encouraging to read your posts

Amen as the truth is encouraging and like Jesus said...it will set us free from the religions that bind men down under a yoke that they cannot possibly bear......appreciate your words Jo......

 

[dcontroversal]

I suppose, thanks,,

Your welcome buttons....amen!