The Correct Path
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God has poured out his grace upon all humanity, all have the capasity to believe, even those who have never heard his word. The way you are looking at it only those who hear His word have hope of salvation. The way I look at Romans 10:17, is our faith is increased by hearing his word because we have a greater witness than those who have never heard the gospel.
"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Peter 3:10
"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Peter 3:10
Rom 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Rom 10:17 faith cometh by hearing, not faith is increased by hearing.
It's God's perceptive will not any should perish, but men will not comply.
Rom 10:17 faith cometh by hearing, not faith is increased by hearing.
It's God's perceptive will not any should perish, but men will not comply.
F
Below is the correct order and how it unfolds.....
1. The natural man cannot know, discern and or spiritually understand the word of God as it is foolishness unto him and he cannot KNOW IT.
2. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God
3. In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH<--salvation is the result of faith (out of faith)
4. Being saved allows for being transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may put to the test what is that good and acceptable will of GOD
5. By having number 1, thru 4 a person is
a. Born from above and has the spirit so as to compare spiritual with spiritual and can now understand the word of God and how to apply it
b. Can now do number 4 on the list and begin to be transform outside because of the transformation on the inside (Trasformed <---comes from a Greek word that we get metamorphoses from) Change outside because of the change inward....a buttery fly is a caterpillar and is changed into a butterfly due to metamorphoses
C. A man that is saved by faith which is born from above who has begun to take the word of God and understand what it means and how to apply it can in turn begin to grow and produce fruit and do the works that have already been prepared before the casting down of the world........
A man that is already SAVED by FAITH, having had the righteousness of GOD imputed by faith as a gift (saved, born again), who is now sanctified in Christ (positionally) and sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of God, can now and only now begin to understand the word which will shape, form and fashion him after the workings of CHRIST. Then and only then can they do the works that were prepared for the ALREADY CHILDREN OF GOD BY FAITH.
The just shall love by faith......
But with out faith (a clear spiritual gift 1st Corinthians 13) it is impossible to please God......
What is first on the list.......FAITH=HOPE--->RESULTS IN LOVE (this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not heard to bear (love God and love your neighbor)
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE (first on the list is faith (believe=save)
If you believe in you heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved (Faith first on the list (believe=saved)
With the heart man BELIEVETH unto righteousness (faith first on the list=unto righteousness)
Therefore being justified by FAITH (faith first on the list=justified-->rendered legally innocent before God)
Faith has always come before works.....and faith is a GIFT FROM GOD........WORKS do not add to, facilitate, or get the free gift of FAITH.......
Faith which saves and makes it all possible.....see the numbered list above again
1. The natural man cannot know, discern and or spiritually understand the word of God as it is foolishness unto him and he cannot KNOW IT.
2. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God
3. In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH<--salvation is the result of faith (out of faith)
4. Being saved allows for being transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may put to the test what is that good and acceptable will of GOD
5. By having number 1, thru 4 a person is
a. Born from above and has the spirit so as to compare spiritual with spiritual and can now understand the word of God and how to apply it
b. Can now do number 4 on the list and begin to be transform outside because of the transformation on the inside (Trasformed <---comes from a Greek word that we get metamorphoses from) Change outside because of the change inward....a buttery fly is a caterpillar and is changed into a butterfly due to metamorphoses
C. A man that is saved by faith which is born from above who has begun to take the word of God and understand what it means and how to apply it can in turn begin to grow and produce fruit and do the works that have already been prepared before the casting down of the world........
A man that is already SAVED by FAITH, having had the righteousness of GOD imputed by faith as a gift (saved, born again), who is now sanctified in Christ (positionally) and sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of God, can now and only now begin to understand the word which will shape, form and fashion him after the workings of CHRIST. Then and only then can they do the works that were prepared for the ALREADY CHILDREN OF GOD BY FAITH.
The just shall love by faith......
But with out faith (a clear spiritual gift 1st Corinthians 13) it is impossible to please God......
What is first on the list.......FAITH=HOPE--->RESULTS IN LOVE (this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not heard to bear (love God and love your neighbor)
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE (first on the list is faith (believe=save)
If you believe in you heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved (Faith first on the list (believe=saved)
With the heart man BELIEVETH unto righteousness (faith first on the list=unto righteousness)
Therefore being justified by FAITH (faith first on the list=justified-->rendered legally innocent before God)
Faith has always come before works.....and faith is a GIFT FROM GOD........WORKS do not add to, facilitate, or get the free gift of FAITH.......
Faith which saves and makes it all possible.....see the numbered list above again
Simple answer, fruit of the spirit faith is not saving faith.
The fruit of the Spirit faith is only rendered as faith in the KJB/KJV. The NASB and other versions call it faithfulness.
The Fruit of the Spirit Faithfulness is a character trait, like the rest of the fruit of the Spirit.
Saving faith is the measure of faith that God has given each man.
How can you have fruit of the Spirit, which are character qualities of the Holy Spirit, before conversion and the Holy Spirit comes to live in you?
The fruit of the Spirit faith is only rendered as faith in the KJB/KJV. The NASB and other versions call it faithfulness.
The Fruit of the Spirit Faithfulness is a character trait, like the rest of the fruit of the Spirit.
Saving faith is the measure of faith that God has given each man.
How can you have fruit of the Spirit, which are character qualities of the Holy Spirit, before conversion and the Holy Spirit comes to live in you?
F
Christ saved you eternally over two thousand years ago. You were born again of the Spirit sometime after your natural birth, probably unrecognized, and you were converted (turned around) in 1994. There is a difference in regeneration and conversion. Regeneration always comes before conversion. I appreciate your believing in the elect, A lot of God's children ignore it.
Where do you see the word (man's) in number three? And you assume a lot........!
3. In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH<--salvation is the result of faith (out of faith)
AND...if you have read anything I have posted then you would know that I have made it very clear that a man is saved, justified and sanctified by the PERFECT FAITH OF/FROM Christ.............and last time I checked...faith is a GIFT from God and has been dealt out to men by measure...except Jesus who was dealt faith without measure!
3. In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH<--salvation is the result of faith (out of faith)
AND...if you have read anything I have posted then you would know that I have made it very clear that a man is saved, justified and sanctified by the PERFECT FAITH OF/FROM Christ.............and last time I checked...faith is a GIFT from God and has been dealt out to men by measure...except Jesus who was dealt faith without measure!
i didn't read anything following this post yet - just happened across it like 2 pieces of driftwood passing in the sea ....
it is TRUTH that no one has FAITH unless YAHWEH grants it from heaven. and it is TRUTH that YAHWEH has mercy on whom HE CHOOSES TO HAVE MERCY, and that YAHWEH hardens whom HE chooses to harden.
it is TRUTH that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD,
and
it is TRUTH that THERE IS A FAMINE OF THE HEARING OF THE WORD OF GOD TODAY. )and has been for a long time, and will be until yahshua returns.
....it is TRUTH that no one has FAITH unless YAHWEH grants it from heaven. and it is TRUTH that YAHWEH has mercy on whom HE CHOOSES TO HAVE MERCY, and that YAHWEH hardens whom HE chooses to harden.
it is TRUTH that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD,
and
it is TRUTH that THERE IS A FAMINE OF THE HEARING OF THE WORD OF GOD TODAY. )and has been for a long time, and will be until yahshua returns.
- John 3:34 - Bible Gateway
www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 3:34
John 3:34 (ESV) [SUP]34[/SUP] For he whom God has sent
utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. - Malachi 3:10 - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Malachi 3:10
Put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, And see if I do not open the floodgates
of heaven for you, and pour down upon you blessing without measure!
he has blessed me without measure - there is no end and no (human nor discernible) limit to his blessing and his anointing upon me, as he is pleased so to do, so to give, so to bless;
completely in line with all of HIS WORD which HE GUARDS FAITHFULLY AND FOREVER.
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What you fail to understand is that both statements are right......
1. Faith is a gift from God, it is spiritual and given to every man by measure (except Jesus)....the end result is simple God is the source of EVERYTHING.....
2. DAY unto DAY uttereth speech, night unto night sets forth KNOWLEDGE....THE INVISIBLE things of GOD testifies of God's power and the GODHEAD........
3. WITHOUT a doubt the bible ALSO states that faith cometh by hearing dia the WORD (hearing with the implication of understanding)<----NATURAL MAN cannot KNOW, NOR DISCERN the word of GOD because it is FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM.....
So what does all that say....A man that has not been born again CANNOT SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORD as it takes a spiritual birth to understand the word.....man cannot have a spiritual birth and understand the word without FAITH which is a spiritual GIFT.....GOD has dealt to every man the ABILITY TO BELIEVE (a divine spark) of belief and testifies by creation......if man exercises FAITH into the message of salvation (the ability to believe which is from God) they will be BORN AGAIN and from that moment on have the ability to spiritually discern and exercise FAITH into ANY message and or word that comes from GOD......rather simple at the end of the day......!
1. Faith is a gift from God, it is spiritual and given to every man by measure (except Jesus)....the end result is simple God is the source of EVERYTHING.....
2. DAY unto DAY uttereth speech, night unto night sets forth KNOWLEDGE....THE INVISIBLE things of GOD testifies of God's power and the GODHEAD........
3. WITHOUT a doubt the bible ALSO states that faith cometh by hearing dia the WORD (hearing with the implication of understanding)<----NATURAL MAN cannot KNOW, NOR DISCERN the word of GOD because it is FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM.....
So what does all that say....A man that has not been born again CANNOT SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORD as it takes a spiritual birth to understand the word.....man cannot have a spiritual birth and understand the word without FAITH which is a spiritual GIFT.....GOD has dealt to every man the ABILITY TO BELIEVE (a divine spark) of belief and testifies by creation......if man exercises FAITH into the message of salvation (the ability to believe which is from God) they will be BORN AGAIN and from that moment on have the ability to spiritually discern and exercise FAITH into ANY message and or word that comes from GOD......rather simple at the end of the day......!
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F
The Holy Spirit is given to indwell in you at regeneration (born again), not at conversion, which happens after you are born again. The natural man, void of the Spirit, has no spiritual faith according to 1 Cor 2:14. The only way that the natural man can be born again is explained in Eph 2. When they are yet in sin, having no faith.
F
All scriptures must harmonize before you can understand the truth. So, are you telling me that the natural man, explained in 1 Cor 2, that God dealt him a measure of spiritual faith? The natural man has a natural faith of man, but not spiritual faith. So, how does he get born again, spiritually, in your thinking. God dealt a measure of spiritual faith to every spiritual man.
Eph 2 says a child of wrath, rebellion and disobedience is saved by grace, through FAITH, not the fruit of the spirit, faithfulness. The faith in Eph 2 is saving faith that God has given every man a measure of.
1 Cor 2.14 does not say that natural man is void of the spirit because he has no faith, it is says the thing of the SPirit are foolishness to him, because he does not have the Holy Spirit. In Matt 16 Simon Barjonah did not naturally know Jesus was the Christ, the anointed one,. Flesh and blood understanding did not reveal who Jesus was to Peter, The Father in Heaven did.
1 Cor 2.14 does not say that natural man is void of the spirit because he has no faith, it is says the thing of the SPirit are foolishness to him, because he does not have the Holy Spirit. In Matt 16 Simon Barjonah did not naturally know Jesus was the Christ, the anointed one,. Flesh and blood understanding did not reveal who Jesus was to Peter, The Father in Heaven did.
I have explained it to you numerous times....as well as others......I am sorry that you cannot figure out that God has dealt to every man the ability to believe.....and testifies to every man by creation......and like Joshua said...as long as you believe in the TULIP doctrine there is no sense in discussing the ability of man to believe the word......