What was the language spoken before Babel

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 12, 2015

It appears that the one language spoken before Babel is closely related to Abram. According to what I have read in the first book of Enoch (I cannot remember what chapter and verse) Abraham re-established the language of “Eber” henceforth he is called a Hebrew. In Genesis 14:13 is the first time that term is used in the Bible. Then Abraham's name was changed with the addition of (ha ה) signifying God's grace that gave faith to Abraham. “And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew (עברי)--now he dwelt by the terebinths of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner; and these were confederate with Abram.” Hebrew עברי5680 `Ibriy ib-ree' patronymic from 5677; an Eberite (i.e. Hebrew) or descendant of (אבר) Eber:--Hebrew(-ess, woman). Eber עבר5677 `Eber ay'-ber the same as 5676; Eber, the name of two patriarchs and four Israelites:--Eber, Heber. Genesis 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, (אבר) the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born. כא וּלְשֵׁם יֻלַּד, גַּם-הוּא אֲבִי, כָּל-בְּנֵי-עֵבֶר--אֲחִי, יֶפֶת הַגָּדוֹל Curiously, the first two applications of this root עבר ('abar) are in names. The first time this root appears is in the name Eber (Genesis 10:21; all the sons of Eber). The second instance of our root is in the first occurrence of the name עברי ('ibri or Hebrew) in Genesis 14:13, where Abram is called a Hebrew. This seems to suggest that the kind of transition this root conveys takes signature precedence in Eber, and the result of Eber's transition is the Hebrews and their transition. Nimrod is mentioned in Genesis 10:8-10 and the beginning of his kingdom. This was before the confounding of languages mentioned in Genesis 11:7 for in Genesis 11:1 it says “And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.” So the first language that was spoken or written is very closely related to the Hebrew language if not the exact written Hebrew of the Pentateuch, for the “Eber” was the language of Shem who survived the flood during the time of Noah. Arguments in a gentle way are welcomed.

eber is possibly identified with ibrium of ebla...the language spoken in ebla was a semitic language known as eblaite...not hebrew... so the statement in the book of enoch that abram revived the language of eber is probably simply false... although for that matter it is not even certain that abram actually spoke hebrew...so he might have even spoken a north semitic derivative of eblaite...

valiant · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

you are clearly unaware that all Hebrew words are based on Hebrew verbs which usually basically contain three letters. Thus Methuselah comes from Mathah (man) and shalach 'dart, javelin, spear'. It means man of the javelin.

atwhatcost · Apr 12, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

This is an intelligent answer, therefore I'm going to assume you are an intelligent person who has studied this to some extent. Was it wrong to study this? In my opinion, God gave us a vast universe to study in his glory. We won't learn it all no matter how much we study.

I would like to put a face on God, but he made sure I could not. Still, I am capable of looking up scripture to see where people made contact with God to see if they ever saw what he looked like. To some extent I have. They never describe him because he doesn't want to be described physically, so there is no way I can figure out what God looks like physically. I can try. It's not a sin for trying. (It is a sin for imagining that which isn't there.) So far, I got his feet are on something that looks like a bluish color. Not his feet and not really sapphire, but whatever it is, it was important enough for God to mention more than once in his book.

In like kind, Just-me wants to figure out an ancient language. If God wants Just-me to learn that answer, he will give it to her. If he chooses not to let her learn it, she won't get it. Either way, this is a plus, because she explored something of God's universe. Pretty cool, because that's what she is after.

We're learning things about God even when we're trying to learn something else about him. That's a plus.

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

that is not what i was saying...

what i was saying is that much like the case where the greek writers of the new testament used the greek translation of 'rock'...namely 'peter'...to refer to 'kepha' which was the aramaic name meaning 'rock' that he would have actually been given...in the same way the hebrew writer of genesis used the hebrew translation 'methuselah' to refer to a person whose name meant 'his death will bring' in an earlier pre flood language...

so i am not saying the name was made up after the fact...i am saying the meaning of the original name was translated into hebrew...

valiant · Apr 12, 2015

Abraham did not call himself a Hebrew. He was called it by outsiders (whoever composed the narrative concerning his covenant with Melchizedek). The Israelites were called Hebrews by the Egyptians. In both cases it was probably related to the Habiru, stateless people who initially owned no land. Thus it is doubtful if Hebrew means descended from Eber.

And if it includes that idea Eber's sons had many sons. Thus his descendants would be widespread by the time of Abraham. If anything it would suggest an Aramaic script as being the common one.

just-me · Apr 12, 2015

atwhatcost said:

I'm a guy. LOL Blue in color. I appreciate your support.
I'm under the impression that the Hebrew language is the preferred language God has given, as he has also inspired other languages. Jesus talked to Paul in the Hebrew language while Paul/Saul was on the road to Damascus. It was a language spoken by Israel, God's chosen, in the Old Covenant. It is 3, or maybe even 4 denominational unlike any other language in the world. Those who are skeptical of the Hebrew Roots movement, (that I am NOT affiliated with) and those that say the law has been crucified with Christ, is only for the Jews, and or is legalistic because the law is an adversary of grace and faith, will not want to be persuaded that the Hebrew language was God given to Adam and Eve in the garden. I even question it, but the Bible sure indicates that to be true. After studying the feast, those that are in the Hebrew Roots movement argue against what I've found saying there are 7 feast when the Bible says there are only 3. Those that are against the law of Moses will argue with me and assume that I am in the Hebrew Roots thing just because I estimate the law as relevant for Christians for learning even after faith is given to us.

Can't win for losing. LOL

The Bible is the final authority in every case, and it can confirm the truth that we study in other books and the net. Thanks.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2015

atwhatcost said:

Thanks for your answer. And I agree, It is probably not going to hurt to try to figure out things, as I love history and science. I love this myself. That is how I came up with my points, because I too have studied this as I found it a curious topic.

However. I think some people go overboard. The hebrew roots movement is a movement which wants to base relating to God with law. traditions, customs and roots.

Just-Me happens to come from this movement, If you read his posts since he has been here you will see this. He seems to want to make every excuse in the book to do this, this is just another attempt in my view.

Even that does not matter, My point was this should not be such a conversation as to cause division and argument, which I fear it will, because one person is hell bent on making his Jewish focused relating to God a priority, where it is not.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2015

valiant said:

from what I gather.

Semitec peoples would include them all. A name given to those descended from Shem And aramaic was the common language, I agree, this is most likely Abrahams native tongue when he left the ur and went to cannan.

Hebrew was a term given to the peoples descended from Eber. and was not just a name given to Abrahams children through Sarah,

The people of Israel were typically called Judeans. Hence the name jews.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

The hebrew roots. as with all roots, come in different types.

Just because you may not agree with all they say, does not make you part of what they are.

You have a history of wanting to return to your hebrew roots. this is just another attempt to try to get us to follow you.

Thanks, but no thanks.

you have been given ample evidence to see the likelihood that hebrew was adams tongue or noahs tongue or even abrahams tongue is very slim. But you refuse to look at this. or even contemplate this, all yuo want to do is argue with this. (this is not the first time you brought this up, you did it a few times awhile ago, and the same arguments are presented.) and you were the same back then.

just-me · Apr 12, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

I see, sorry for my misunderstanding. I think the name was first translated in the first Septuagint used during the time of Jesus but the Hebrew Scriptures were still used in the Temple or numerous synagogues. Ultimately it was translated into English and whatever was in between before that. With Israel being captured by the Assyrians, and Judah the Babylonians there surely must have been other translations, but if that were the case, I'm sure that the original Hebrew writings were never all destroyed. I think Hezekiah's priests found some original scrolls of the law of Moses after they returned from the Medo Persian Empire to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple.

weakness · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

Thanks for your story, but I hope this thread is not derailed with another "tongues" controversy. It is hard to understand that a language professor listening to an ancient language no longer used in this world, that he knew of, could even begin translating it without identifying the language first. That description is contradictory to itself.

The other thing, is that there is no reason to pray without understanding because God doesn't invent prayers that only He can understand, henceforth praying to Himself and using a human as a mediator doesn't make sense either.

If there is no unbeliever present to hear tongues, which is still a gift of the Holy Spirit, there is no reason to speak in tongues.

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." 1 Corinthians 14:22

"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Corinthians 14:15

No let's go back to the question of OP[/QUOTE1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaks in an unknown tongue , speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him, howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries. Paul says in Cor that it is better to prophesy than speak in tongues ,except he interpret, which is basically prophesying.This is In the meeting of the church. vs. 4 He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself. vs. 15 ....I will pray with the Spirit and I will pray with understanding. So there is a reason to pray with no understanding , and God does make Prayers unto himself!! I am sure there are more things... I think this post was on topic for the thread, But yours is border line.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Apr 12, 2015

With all do respect to the OP, the question of Hebrew being an original spoken language is not edifying let me explain.......
Let's say Hebrew was the original spoken language prior to or after babel and could be proven....does this edify?
Let's say Hebrew was not the original spoken language prior to or after babel and could be proven....does this edify?

Here is something that does edify Christians.

Original Nicene creed.......
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The word "catholic" with a lower case 'c' does not mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the universal Christian Church as a whole.

(source)

just-me · Apr 12, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

If Abraham Is identified in the Bible as a Hebrew, what other language could, or would he have spoken since Hebrew is an identified dialect attributed to Abram and not a nationality. Abraham wasn't a nation. Jacob i.e. Israel was.

just-me · Apr 12, 2015

1 Corinthians 14

weakness said:

Emphasize "with"

God doesn't need or want a mediator other than Jesus Christ Himself. I am at peace knowing that I will never have that responsibility, it is just too hard to even comprehend taking on that enormous responsibility. God doesn't need us to pray to Himself cause He doesn't pray to Himself. If we Babble, it doesn't mean we are special intellectually, or Spiritually, even though it might be a special case in an obtuse way when that happens.

Willie-T · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

I started a thread 2 days ago called http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/111219-lords-prayer-hebrew.html
There was more interest in language translations than discussion that could have expanded spiritual meaning to each phrase Jesus used to teach the diciples how to pray, so I thought it would be interesting to talk about the Hebrew language, where, when , and how it came to be.

So what was the one language spoken prior to the Tower of Babel?

The following is from a website "the origin of the Hebrew language"
When God created Adam he spoke to him (Genesis 2:16) indicating that God gave Adam a language and this language came from God himself, not through the evolution of grunts and groans of cave men. When we look at all the names of Adam's descendants we find that all the names from Adam to Noah and his children are Hebrew names, meaning that their name has a meaning in Hebrew. For instance, Methuselah (Genesis 5:21) is Hebrew for "his death brings" (The flood occurred the year that he died). It is not until we come to Noah's grandchildren that we find names that are of a language other than Hebrew. For instance, the name Nimrod (Genesis 11:18), who was from Babylon/Sumer/Shinar and possibly the Tower of Babel, is a non-Hebrew name. According to the Biblical record of names, Adam and his descendants spoke Hebrew.

My other question is why did Jesus speak to Paul in the Hebrew language? (Acts 26:14) What was the purpose of doing that when people spoke mostly Greek and or Aramaic during the time of Paul?

As I research, I find that most scholars say the Hebrew language is much different today than it was during the time of Paul, and also a stark difference in that language from Abraham to Paul's day. It is obvious that Paul spoke just about all dialects known during his day, so why did Jesus have to speak to Paul in Hebrew? Couldn't Paul have understood the same message from Jesus in the Aramaic or the Greek language? Maybe it was necessary for Paul to know that it truly was Jesus the true Messiah, and not just the God Saul knew. But if that were the case, Paul knew that the language came from Abraham and his descendants which makes the language Paul heard no big deal. Jesus told him who He was.

"And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." Acts 26:15

What makes the Hebrew language so special in New Testament writings if it wasn't the language normally spoken then?

I would say that the language spoken then would not have been identified at all, because it simply existed, and there was nothing to compare it to. It just WAS..... Much like God said "I AM, that I AM."

just-me · Apr 12, 2015

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

With all do respect to the OP, the question of Hebrew being an original spoken language is not edifying let me explain.......
Let's say Hebrew was the original spoken language prior to or after babel and could be proven....does this edify?
Let's say Hebrew was not the original spoken language prior to or after babel and could be proven....does this edify?

Here is something that does edify Christians.

Original Nicene creed.......
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The word "catholic" with a lower case 'c' does not mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the universal Christian Church as a whole.

(source)

The way Hebrew is written, it can and does give deeper spirirual meaning and understabding more than English language ever could or can because of its dimensions that are more than our language.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

Fair enough, i felt it necessary to speak what was posted by me here. Have a nice day, and best wishes for you and those involved in this discussion to get the most out of this discussion

didymos · Apr 12, 2015

just-me said:

That can be fixed

wincam · Apr 12, 2015

Willie-T said:

a bit like at Pentecost when they all heard them even though they spoke different languages - this could only have been telepathy like the thousands of starlings we see coming home to roost as they sway in perfect unison and order - wincam

didymos · Apr 12, 2015

wincam said:

So starlings are telepathic now?

But seriously, Pentecost was the work of the Holy Spirit,
no telepathy or other occult phenomons involved.

What was the language spoken before Babel

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