Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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Mary the mother of Jesus is not omnipresent she does not have the ability to hear the prayers of anyone.
Only God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Mary has none of these qualities. She is a human not a god.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Only God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Mary has none of these qualities. She is a human not a god.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
M
OK agreed God is the Omnipotent One. How do you suppose Gabriel knew exactly where Mary was to deliver God's message? How did he know what God's message was? Was it due to his relationship with God?
Could it also be that Mary is near Jesus in Heaven? I am sure He likes being near His mother. Could it be that Mary has a relationship with Jesus in heaven? We also know where Jesus sits in heaven. Could it also be that Mary is the woman clothed in the sun, who brought forth a man child to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and her child was caught up unto God and His throne?
Could it also be that Mary is near Jesus in Heaven? I am sure He likes being near His mother. Could it be that Mary has a relationship with Jesus in heaven? We also know where Jesus sits in heaven. Could it also be that Mary is the woman clothed in the sun, who brought forth a man child to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and her child was caught up unto God and His throne?
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First of you are correct, our Blessed Mother is not omnipresent, ever Catholic knows that! Sheezzz... Also no one in the Catholic Church says we are to worship Mary, nor is she divine. a double sheezz!!!! However, she is the best among us creatures because God lived in her, respect that and know that no one can be saved without The Messiah, so quit trying to disprove something you don't even know the correct answer too. Although there are various biblical indications that the saints in heaven are quite aware of what is happening on the earth. One of the clearest is Hebrews 12:1.
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us" Your probably wondering how does this relate to the subject at hand?
Well.....Word Studies in the New Testament (Marvin R. Vincent, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1980; orig. 1887; vol. 4, p. 536), a standard Protestant language source, comments on this verse as follows:
'
Witnesses' does not mean spectators, but those who have borne witness to the truth, as those enumerated in chapter 11. Yet the idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principal idea. The writer's picture is that of an arena in which the Christians whom he addresses are contending in a race, while the vast host of the heroes of faith who, after having borne witness to the truth, have entered into their heavenly rest, watches the contest from the encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with lively interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid.
This would seem to be a good biblical argument against yours and others claim that these saints are dead and can't hear our prayers. They know about us because they are in a higher state of knowledge than we are. Being more intelligent or aware does not logically entail something close to omniscience. You are simply, and unnecessarily ruling out categories other than quasi-omniscience in those alive after departing this earth.
The Bible says that we will "judge angels" (1 Cor 6:3), and that "when he appears we shall be like him" (1 Jn 3:2). Jesus said, "in the resurrection they . . . are like angels in heaven" (Mt 22:30). It's reasonable to assume that we will have knowledge in the afterlife at least akin to that of the angels (which is itself extraordinary). The Bible says, "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance" (Lk 15:10). So notuptome....Who has joy? Who is rejoicing? Sure sounds to us Catholics its the folks in heaven!
Also notuptome, we see an example of "imprecatory prayer" in heaven, asking for justice (Rev 6:9-11). We observe men in heaven (Rev 5:8) and also angels (Rev 8:4) somehow possessing the "prayers of the saints". Why? What are they doing with them, pray tell? Why are they involved in prayer at all? Those three passages mi amigo prove that they are speaking of it to God." The problem with your arguments against the communion of saints is that you collapse the recourse to intermediary intercessors in prayer (i.e., the ones who have died) with requests to them as if they had the ability to answer the prayer, which is God's prerogative and power alone. Catholic prayers to saints (i.e., rightly understood, in accordance with Catholic dogma) presuppose this, but because it's not stated every two seconds, Protestants/non-Catholics too often falsely supposes that Catholics think saints can grant prayers in and of themselves apart from God. This (a supremely important point) is the fallacy or misunderstanding or both.
Pax Christi
"From hencforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.
p.s. Any Catholic that knows thier fath knows Mary is not God. Sheezzz!
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us" Your probably wondering how does this relate to the subject at hand?
Well.....Word Studies in the New Testament (Marvin R. Vincent, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1980; orig. 1887; vol. 4, p. 536), a standard Protestant language source, comments on this verse as follows:
'
Witnesses' does not mean spectators, but those who have borne witness to the truth, as those enumerated in chapter 11. Yet the idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principal idea. The writer's picture is that of an arena in which the Christians whom he addresses are contending in a race, while the vast host of the heroes of faith who, after having borne witness to the truth, have entered into their heavenly rest, watches the contest from the encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with lively interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid.
This would seem to be a good biblical argument against yours and others claim that these saints are dead and can't hear our prayers. They know about us because they are in a higher state of knowledge than we are. Being more intelligent or aware does not logically entail something close to omniscience. You are simply, and unnecessarily ruling out categories other than quasi-omniscience in those alive after departing this earth.
The Bible says that we will "judge angels" (1 Cor 6:3), and that "when he appears we shall be like him" (1 Jn 3:2). Jesus said, "in the resurrection they . . . are like angels in heaven" (Mt 22:30). It's reasonable to assume that we will have knowledge in the afterlife at least akin to that of the angels (which is itself extraordinary). The Bible says, "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance" (Lk 15:10). So notuptome....Who has joy? Who is rejoicing? Sure sounds to us Catholics its the folks in heaven!
Also notuptome, we see an example of "imprecatory prayer" in heaven, asking for justice (Rev 6:9-11). We observe men in heaven (Rev 5:8) and also angels (Rev 8:4) somehow possessing the "prayers of the saints". Why? What are they doing with them, pray tell? Why are they involved in prayer at all? Those three passages mi amigo prove that they are speaking of it to God." The problem with your arguments against the communion of saints is that you collapse the recourse to intermediary intercessors in prayer (i.e., the ones who have died) with requests to them as if they had the ability to answer the prayer, which is God's prerogative and power alone. Catholic prayers to saints (i.e., rightly understood, in accordance with Catholic dogma) presuppose this, but because it's not stated every two seconds, Protestants/non-Catholics too often falsely supposes that Catholics think saints can grant prayers in and of themselves apart from God. This (a supremely important point) is the fallacy or misunderstanding or both.
Pax Christi
"From hencforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.
p.s. Any Catholic that knows thier fath knows Mary is not God. Sheezzz!
Yes, I agree!!! The healing grace of the sacrament of penance that washes away our sins, and give us the strength to avoid that sin again os awsome. The more we love the Lord, the more we are aware of the smallest sins and the more we want to say, "I am sorry. Please forgive me." I am sure this is why Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II went to confession weekly.
I feel sorry for our non-Catholic brothers and sisters that don't get to experince the beauty and grace we receive from this great gift God has given us in the sacrament of reconciliation.
Sure, drop me a line via PM sometime.
Pax Christi
"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." -----Luke 1:48
now you are being stupid.
I will leave you to work it out.
we have no reason to think that Mary is especially 'near Jesus in heaven'. we who are Christians will all be near Jesus in heaven. Jesus is omnipresent.
don't be foolish. we are talking about Almighty God not some pathetic little earth creature. Once He had commenced His ministry Jesus made no attempt to be 'near His mother'. indeed He refused to speak to her at one stage because her heart and motives were wrong. why should His attitude have changed in heaven? in heaven she is just one of the saved. she is not His mother there. this is typical roman catholic foolishness so they can have a goddess because it appeals to foolish old women...
C not one any closer than anyone else. she has no special claim on Jesus. she was not the mother of the essential Son of God. she was mother of his humanness and even failed at that.
Actually you don't. He sits on the throne of God, 'in the midst of the throne'. He sits at God's right hand in His humanness as Messiah. He is everywhere in Heaven He is everywhere on earth. these are all pictures to help us understand. They do not express the great reality. its time you grew up.
that is a roman catholic myth and absurd. the woman clothed with the sun moon and stars was Israel (Gen 37.9). after Jesus ascended she fled into the wilderness and had many offspring. It was Israel who produced the Messiah (Mic 5.2). You will notice that the mention of Mary is totally absent from any of the letters of the Apostles. she had no importance in the early church. she was a nonentity.
I will leave you to work it out.
we have no reason to think that Mary is especially 'near Jesus in heaven'. we who are Christians will all be near Jesus in heaven. Jesus is omnipresent.
don't be foolish. we are talking about Almighty God not some pathetic little earth creature. Once He had commenced His ministry Jesus made no attempt to be 'near His mother'. indeed He refused to speak to her at one stage because her heart and motives were wrong. why should His attitude have changed in heaven? in heaven she is just one of the saved. she is not His mother there. this is typical roman catholic foolishness so they can have a goddess because it appeals to foolish old women...
C not one any closer than anyone else. she has no special claim on Jesus. she was not the mother of the essential Son of God. she was mother of his humanness and even failed at that.
Actually you don't. He sits on the throne of God, 'in the midst of the throne'. He sits at God's right hand in His humanness as Messiah. He is everywhere in Heaven He is everywhere on earth. these are all pictures to help us understand. They do not express the great reality. its time you grew up.
that is a roman catholic myth and absurd. the woman clothed with the sun moon and stars was Israel (Gen 37.9). after Jesus ascended she fled into the wilderness and had many offspring. It was Israel who produced the Messiah (Mic 5.2). You will notice that the mention of Mary is totally absent from any of the letters of the Apostles. she had no importance in the early church. she was a nonentity.
you poor soul, needing a mother to look after you. I weep for you. Its time you grew up. of course she is not omnipresent. she is in Heaven among the great multitude that worship before the throne. There will be many nearer to God than she is. She did not excel in spirituality.
Jesus did not see her as 'the best among us creatures'. when she tried to see Him to persuade Him to give up His ministry, He said, 'WHO IS MY MOTHER??' And His reply was, those who do the will of My Father. (Mar 3.21, 31-35).
When the woman called out, 'blessed is the womb that bore you and the nipples you have sucked,', Jesus reply was, 'yea RATHER blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it'. (Luke 11.27-28).
So Jesus did not see her as 'the best among creatures'. She bore a baby for God. That was all. And later she failed Him.
,
that is the first true thing you have said.
I would day the same to you!!!!!
the great cloud of witnesses were in chapter 11. there is no suggestion at all that they could actually see the Hebrews being persecuted. that is pure sentimental nonsense with no basis in fact. the language was figurative. it is never suggested anywhere else. Commentators can get very sentimental and very foolish
Up to this point he was sticking to the text.
purely his opinion with no Scripture to go on. the point was that they should look back at those witnesses and IMAGINE that they were cheering them on. It is typical hyperbole.
LOL he had a good imagination. so all Christians around the world are being watched by these witnesses and being cheered on by them with their telescopic vision and their universal omnipresence. YOU MUST BE JOKING.
Jesus did not see her as 'the best among us creatures'. when she tried to see Him to persuade Him to give up His ministry, He said, 'WHO IS MY MOTHER??' And His reply was, those who do the will of My Father. (Mar 3.21, 31-35).
When the woman called out, 'blessed is the womb that bore you and the nipples you have sucked,', Jesus reply was, 'yea RATHER blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it'. (Luke 11.27-28).
So Jesus did not see her as 'the best among creatures'. She bore a baby for God. That was all. And later she failed Him.
,
that is the first true thing you have said.
I would day the same to you!!!!!
the great cloud of witnesses were in chapter 11. there is no suggestion at all that they could actually see the Hebrews being persecuted. that is pure sentimental nonsense with no basis in fact. the language was figurative. it is never suggested anywhere else. Commentators can get very sentimental and very foolish
Up to this point he was sticking to the text.
purely his opinion with no Scripture to go on. the point was that they should look back at those witnesses and IMAGINE that they were cheering them on. It is typical hyperbole.
LOL he had a good imagination. so all Christians around the world are being watched by these witnesses and being cheered on by them with their telescopic vision and their universal omnipresence. YOU MUST BE JOKING.
L
Great post, Fordman! 1 Cor 6 is a good reference 
I think frequent confession is awesome. Life changing!...
I think frequent confession is awesome. Life changing!...
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Those who have died are in the grave! They are not in Heaven! Mary is in the grave because she died and Mary is waiting for Jesus to come back and take her to Heaven with the rest of us! Therefore Mary IS NOT in Heaven like you corrupted Catholics teach!
How can Mary hear your prayers? To hear your prayers Mattp0625, Mary needs Omnipresent. Only God has the power of Omnipresent. For Mary to answer your prayers Mattp0625 Mary needs to have Omniscient. Only God has the power of Omniscient.
Therefore Mattp0625 the corrupted Catholics have made Mary their God!
The woman in Genesis is NOT Mary! This Woman is the Nation of Israel, not Mary!
This clearly proves that you Mattp0625 have never received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. For if you did have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit would have told you that this Woman is not Mary. Without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit Mattp0625 you can never understand Spiritual things from God!
1 Corinthians 2:10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP] these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Its by the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in us that we are taught the Truths from God. You Mattp0625 cannot understand what the Scriptures say because you have not received Salvation and have not received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who teaches us all Truths. The Truth that Mary was a sinner and is in the grave, you cannot receive nor understand because you cannot understand the Spiritual Truths from God. All you can do is follow the lies of the World about Mary because you are not Spiritual.
Ephesians 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes when you receive Salvation!
Repent Mattp0625! Turn away from the evil Catholic Church! Turn away from Mary as YOUR God! Accept the Salvation that God has for you!
Stop praying to and Worshiping Mary. Reject Mary! Seek God only!
[h=2][/h]
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Those who have died are in the grave! They are not in Heaven! Mary is in the grave because she died and Mary is waiting for Jesus to come back and take her to Heaven with the rest of us! Therefore Mary IS NOT in Heaven like you corrupted Catholics teach!
How can Mary hear your prayers? To hear your prayers Mattp0625, Mary needs Omnipresent. Only God has the power of Omnipresent. For Mary to answer your prayers Mattp0625 Mary needs to have Omniscient. Only God has the power of Omniscient.
Therefore Mattp0625 the corrupted Catholics have made Mary their God!
The woman in Genesis is NOT Mary! This Woman is the Nation of Israel, not Mary!
This clearly proves that you Mattp0625 have never received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. For if you did have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit would have told you that this Woman is not Mary. Without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit Mattp0625 you can never understand Spiritual things from God!
1 Corinthians 2:10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP] these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Its by the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in us that we are taught the Truths from God. You Mattp0625 cannot understand what the Scriptures say because you have not received Salvation and have not received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who teaches us all Truths. The Truth that Mary was a sinner and is in the grave, you cannot receive nor understand because you cannot understand the Spiritual Truths from God. All you can do is follow the lies of the World about Mary because you are not Spiritual.
Ephesians 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes when you receive Salvation!
Repent Mattp0625! Turn away from the evil Catholic Church! Turn away from Mary as YOUR God! Accept the Salvation that God has for you!
Stop praying to and Worshiping Mary. Reject Mary! Seek God only!
[h=2][/h]
Then stop praying to her. Jesus Himself said that those in the presence of God cannot interact with those in this life. There is a great gulf affixed between them and us as well as them in condemnation.
If you knew Christ you would know that God is never too busy to help any soul that seeks Him.
To contend that departed saints can aid us is to engage in speculation and fantasy by implying things to scripture that are not there. They are a witness and a testimony for God but they do not directly interact with souls here on the earth.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you knew Christ you would know that God is never too busy to help any soul that seeks Him.
To contend that departed saints can aid us is to engage in speculation and fantasy by implying things to scripture that are not there. They are a witness and a testimony for God but they do not directly interact with souls here on the earth.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
you are clearly naive in your view of Revelation which like your church you use as a source book for weird ideas.
Lets look at the serpent (drakon). It has seven heads and ten horns. The seven heads are seven kings and seven mountains. The ten horns are ten kings. (Rev 17). So the serpent is a composite creature. It also includes within it the beast which represents empire.
The man child is both Jesus and the body of true believers (compare the Son of man in Daniel 7). Both are attacked by Satan and his minions. Both are seized up to Heaven (1 Thess 4.13 ff). Both will shepherd the nations with a rod of iron (Rev 2.27). Indeed the only ones who will shepherd with a rod of iron prior to this point are the believers.
So BOTH are composite figures. .It would therefore be surprising if a woman with twelve stars on her head would be any different. They represent the patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel
Lets look at the serpent (drakon). It has seven heads and ten horns. The seven heads are seven kings and seven mountains. The ten horns are ten kings. (Rev 17). So the serpent is a composite creature. It also includes within it the beast which represents empire.
The man child is both Jesus and the body of true believers (compare the Son of man in Daniel 7). Both are attacked by Satan and his minions. Both are seized up to Heaven (1 Thess 4.13 ff). Both will shepherd the nations with a rod of iron (Rev 2.27). Indeed the only ones who will shepherd with a rod of iron prior to this point are the believers.
So BOTH are composite figures. .It would therefore be surprising if a woman with twelve stars on her head would be any different. They represent the patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel
You say one thing but your actions tell something altogether different. Pagan rites are pagan rites saying they are not does not change them. Repetitive prayers are not prayers of Christians but pagans.
No need to be flippant. God directed Gabriel. Mary was a vessel chosen by God for a special purpose. How many other women were of equal merit only God knows.
You are endeavoring to understand 1 Cor 6 through your doctrine not according to the truth of Gods word.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No need to be flippant. God directed Gabriel. Mary was a vessel chosen by God for a special purpose. How many other women were of equal merit only God knows.
You are endeavoring to understand 1 Cor 6 through your doctrine not according to the truth of Gods word.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger