I Feel Condemned

Willie-T · Apr 15, 2015

Jere said:

Have you ever read the story of The Prodigal Son?

If not, read it. If you have, read it again.

The hero of the story is NOT the son. It was nothing he did that got him welcomed back... only that he came. In fact, he was not repentant. He was not sorry. He was only hungry, and he remembered that Dad had plenty of food. Do you know that he was intending only to try and talk his father into hiring him as a farm worker so he could get something to eat? He even had a sob story already formulated and practiced that he hoped would work.

But he never got the chance to recite it because his Dad was already looking out across the landscape for him, and the father is the one who made all the overtures.

That's simply the way our Father, God, operates. He only wants us to come to him. He expects no great job of looking sorry to convince Him. In fact, nothing we can do will be good enough to be worthy anyway, so all our efforts really don't do anything at all. He's already convinced He wants us back in His arms.

Utah · Apr 15, 2015

atwhatcost said:

Since you've been here longer than I have, I would have guessed you could use this site easier. To go back to a post you only read the first to sentences of, you can either go to the top of this thread or the bottom of this thread. Around there are links that tell you what page you're on, so you can decide which page you want to go back to. Handy-dandy device. (My answer was on page one.)

Next, you have to do something you have claimed you don't do on another thread. Read a whole post. Granted, I don't really care if you read all of what I said or not, until the moment you play cut-and-paste on what I really did say to make it look like I said something else. If you aren't going to read the whole thing, don't read the beginning either. It's fine. You're choice. Sure beats this game.

BUT, since you've decided you're above it all and you can just cut-and-paste a portion of what I said, to prove your pointless point. (And if something is pointless, this certainly fills the bill), let me just quote all of what I said in that whole paragraph, so people don't waste time thinking you're on to something.

(Italics added, since that's the part you chose to ignore.)

And since you've made this much bigger than it really is, let me clarify for you what I was thinking when I wrote that. I was a virgin when I was gang raped. I certainly do know what it is like to have a gun (well, in my case, it was an ax) to my head and to be forced to do what I did not want to do. I spent a couple of years wondering if I had sinned anyway or not. Even had a pastor tell me I did through no fault of my own.

Like this young man who asked this question, ultimately I came to the right conclusion. Since there really was an ax to my head, it wasn't sin. The partying too hard that got me there? Truly, truly that was sin. Clear enough for you? Or do you need to judge me some more?

I won't tell you what stand out about your post any more.

I'm sorry, did you say something?

Delivery · Apr 15, 2015

Jere said:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

Once you have Jesus you are no longer condemned for the things you do wrong. Just ask Jesus to help you and He will.

Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved. (Psalms 55:22)

The only thing that makes you righteous is belief in Jesus. Your belief in Jesus cleanses you from all your sin.

Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you (I Peter 5:7)

Some people use those verses in Hebrews to condemn people who they feel aren't obeying the rules and following Jesus the way they should. But just cause you make mistakes and commit sins does not mean you are falling away. It really means your sins do not cause you to "fall away" because Jesus' final blood sacrifice for your sins has cleansed you from all your sins forever. Once you believe in and receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, your sins and disobedience cannot cause you to lose your Salvation cause otherwise Jesus would have to come again in the flesh to suffer and die for your sins again in order for you to get re-saved. It's impossible for that to happen, therefore it's impossible for you to lose your salvation just cause you commit sins after you are saved. That's what those verses in Hebrews are talking about.

The one in Mathew 7:19-20 is talking about the fruit that comes out of your mouth, the things you say. This is clarified in Luke's Gospel:

[SUP]3[/SUP] For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]44[/SUP] For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
[SUP]45[/SUP] A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Again, people use these verses to condemn people for things they do that they consider to be bad and wrong. The problem is that some people have a narrow minded view point of how a Christian is supposed to act if they are a true Christian. So they try to make the point that a person doesn't have good fruit because of how he's acting. But the ones who try to point these faults and sins of others to supposedly show that they don't have good fruit and therefore aren't true Christians, are, themselves just being judgmental hypocrites. It is also unchristian to be judgmental of others in their sins. Because we're all sinners saved by the Grace of Jesus.

The fruit that proves you are a good tree is the fruit of what comes out of your mouth. Cause what comes out of your mouth proves whats in your heart. If you can say "Jesus, you are Lord of my life. thank-you for dying for me, forgiving me for all my sins and giving me your free gift of everlasting life." Then your fruit is good, and you are one of the righteous who will live forever.

[SUP]3[/SUP] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

WheresEnoch · Apr 15, 2015

Willie-T said:

The son was in a different country living recklessly (in sin/flesh/apart from God). The son had to stop his reckless life and make his long way back to the father... After the son had traveled all the way back home, then the father ran out to meet the son on the road.

The act of repentance in the story is turning from sinful ways and walking towards the father. Once back with the father, the son could would not be able to fall back into his old way of life without first leaving the father and the fathers country again.

Repentance does not have to be emotional and full of tears and begging. It could be but all that is required is to turn from sinful ways and follow in the steps of Christ.

Willie-T · Apr 15, 2015

WheresEnoch said:

And actually the son's sin began much earlier than the partying. His bigger sin was, in effect, telling his father that he couldn't wait for him to die to get his hands on his part of the money.

atwhatcost · Apr 15, 2015

Utah said:

Yup a childish response followed by a temper tamper. It fits.

Utah · Apr 15, 2015

atwhatcost said:

Woman, but no lady; you've got that right. At least you're honest. I respect honesty.

AuntieAnt · Oct 26, 2016

I'm a bit confused, Jere. You posted almost this exact same op on April 14, 2015. And you also included the very same Dave Wilkerson video.

Then you concluded on June 29th, 2015 this comment: (click on link below)

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/116836-will-god-take-me-back.html#post2151739

Now here you are again proclaiming that you're in fear of going to hell and you're advertising the same Dave Wilkerson video.

Are you affiliated with the World Challenge Youth Ministry?

Just wondering.

If not, I suggest you speak to a professional Christian counselor about your anxiety regarding hell. Praying for you.

mpaper345 · Oct 26, 2016

Jere said:

All sin can be forgiven,even if you live in sin for a year,it can be forgiven,and if you sincerely give up sin,and do not desire it,and allow the Spirit to lead you,you are not condemned,which we cannot doubt that this is possible,and we should not be hard on our self and hinder God's forgiveness,and love.

If you have received the Spirit,the gifts and calling of God are without repentance,which means God will not turn from it,although we might,but we can always give up the sin,and continue on as before.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

If we confess Christ,and have received the Spirit,if we do err from the truth,we can give up the sin,and all is right again.

If truly saved,sin can be forgiven all the day long,but we should not take advantage of God's forgiveness,and mercy,and love,knowing He will forgive,and it can be a gamble if we sin that we might get caught up in it.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This falling away has to be someone that has stopped believing in the truth,and then later they came back to the truth,for if a person does get caught up in sin,but they still believe in God,and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior,all they have to do is repent of those sins,and not want them anymore,and they should be back on track with the Lord.

So this cannot mean a person that started sinning,but still confessed Jesus as Lord and Savior,which they did not deny the truth,but enjoyed sin for a while,but if they give it up,it can be forgiven.

Which this will explain it.

The Bible says that the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ,until there is a falling away first.

This falling away consists of people that do not believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

Which the Bible says in the latter times some will depart from the faith,and give heed to a false interpretation of the Bible,that is based on nature worship,and denies that Jesus is Lord and Savior,but is a great teacher in spiritual evolution(1 Timothy 4:1-5).

Which this interpretation will become so popular,that the time will come when they will not want to hear the truth of the Bible,but will want to hear the Bible according to their own lusts,and be turned on to fables(2 Timothy 4:2-4),which is when there is a unified religious system.

Which wanting to hear the Bible according to their own lusts,and are fables,is a nature worship interpretation that exalts people.

They deny Jesus as Lord and Savior,and exalt themselves,and in the future people will only want to hear it that way,for the world will view religion as spiritual evolution,by way of nature,but it is the time for the world to head to the beast kingdom.

So when the Bible says if they shall fall away,to renew them again unto repentance,it must mean they gave up on the truth,and then believed the truth again,for if a person is truly saved,led of the Spirit,and they sin for a while,but they still believe in God,and do not deny Jesus as Lord and Savior,all sin can be forgiven,even if a person lives in sin for a while.

So it cannot mean they sinned for a while,and cannot be renewed,for all they have to do is repent,and it is forgiven,that simple.

But these people that have fallen away,and believed again,want to do it all over again from scratch,the same as when they first came to God,and if they stop believing,and then believe again,and want to do it from scratch,they put the Son to an open shame.

So if you did not deny Jesus as Lord and Savior,but only engaged in sin for a tad bit,it is as simple of not wanting that sin anymore,and it will be forgiven,and allow the Spirit to lead you,and you will be back on the right track.

That is if you got saved rightly the first time,and if not,get saved the right way,which confess Christ,and allow the Spirit to lead you,but I do not believe that you fall under the category for falling away,and coming back,if you always as at the first,believed that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These scriptures is what applies to a person that has been saved,and goes back to sinning,but they did not fall away in the sense of denying Jesus,but they enjoyed sin,but sin can be forgiven at any time.

So the falling away is someone that believed the truth,and then stopped believing the truth,but then believed the truth again,and wanted to start from scratch,which God said they would put the Son to an open shame,but does not apply to someone that engaged in sin for a while,but did not deny Jesus as Lord and Savior,for all they have to do is repent of that sin,and it is forgiven,and they are back on track with Jesus.

The New Age movement might have people like this,that believed the truth,and then gave heed to the new age movement's interpretation of the Bible,that Jesus is not Lord and Savior,but a good teacher,like other teachers,and then found out the new age is wrong,and went back to believing Jesus as Lord and Savior,which that would be an example of someone falling away,but also some people that did not give heed to the new age did the same thing,believed Jesus is Lord and savior,and then stopped believing,and then came back,or believing in God,then stopped believing,which they would not confess Christ under that circumstance,and then believed in God again.

Adstar · Oct 26, 2016

Then your sinning is not Willful sinning... Willful sinning is sinning and not being willing to stop.. Willful sinning is sinning and being proud of it not ashamed... Your showing a repentant spirit by wanting to stop sinning... Therefore you need to trust in the Atonement of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins.. The preaching makes you feel guilty.. That's good because we are all guilty and in need of the Atonement of Jesus.. If you reacted to those verses with laughter and mockery then i would be in fear for you..

Believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for you.. Resist sin but don't lose heart when you fail.. Remember salvation is about what Jesus did for us.. Not about how much we achieve..

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I Feel Condemned

Willie-T

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Utah

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WheresEnoch

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Willie-T

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atwhatcost

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Utah

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AuntieAnt

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mpaper345

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