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E
imagine living in such a terrifying place, though. 
not realizing God has justified us, we seek to justify ourselves.
i am also guilty of this at times.
not realizing God has justified us, we seek to justify ourselves.
i am also guilty of this at times.
and yeah, Satan trys to convict us all the time. with things, like how can you expect God to love you. look what you do. God ain't gonna save you.
I hear it often myself.
That MAY be part true,but you left out one other part. Whatever is NOT of AGAPE LOVE is sin. That type of love CAN NOT SIN. And none of have reached the point where we love so completely as God loved us. And sin is MISSING the mark of AGAPE LOVE. Because remember the SUM of the law and the prophets is to LOVE the Lord God with ALL your mind,heart,soul and strength and the second is to LOVE your neighbor as yourself. And none of have reached we do so COMPLETELY. (We're still in training)
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Nope. . .justification is God's declaration of "not guilty," rightwise (righteous) standing before him by grace alone through faith.
That would be the obedience of saving faith.
Glorification is what happens to the believer's physical spiritual body in the resurrection (1Co 15:43),
as it did to Jesus physical spiritual body in his resurrection.
That would be the obedience of saving faith.
Glorification is what happens to the believer's physical spiritual body in the resurrection (1Co 15:43),
as it did to Jesus physical spiritual body in his resurrection.
P
God's great love....who can comprehend it?
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,
that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us,
to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen. (Eph 3:14-21)
He'll get us there.
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,
that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us,
to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen. (Eph 3:14-21)
He'll get us there.
V
Excellent point, and one which most posters on the thread have overlooked. There is a sudden flurry of attention in Christian literature and media concerning so-called "false conversions" based on supposed evidence of their falsity by the behavior of the converts. This bogus nonsense knows no doctrinal nor denominational boundaries, affecting hyper-Calvinist and Pentecostal alike.
A book by a newlywed couple three years ago titled "Falsified" is a prime indicator of the ridiculous measure those adhering to the concept go to prove the problem is "epidemic." They take a slice of a Christian's life -- what they can observe now, up close -- and make judgment based on that as to whether that Christian is actually saved or not. It ignores a myriad of warnings by Christ and His apostles about how we are to judge, and needlessly drives wedges between brothers and sisters in Christ.
No one, no matter how Christlike, looks like Christ 24/7/365. It is impossible. The best of saints undergoes trial and testing and comes up short. But that's what trials and testings are about -- showing the weaknesses we all have so that we will allow the Holy Spirit to mold and shape us into something useful.
If you take an hour, a day, or a whole year out of any Christian's life and try to judge their salvation by it, chances are you're going to find a lot of "unsaved people." But remember Christ's words from the Sermon on the Mount.
In reviewing the words on this thread, I'd say there's a lot of logs to go around. I carry a log remover for myself on my smart phone. It's an app of the NASB. I walk around dropping my logs everywhere.
A book by a newlywed couple three years ago titled "Falsified" is a prime indicator of the ridiculous measure those adhering to the concept go to prove the problem is "epidemic." They take a slice of a Christian's life -- what they can observe now, up close -- and make judgment based on that as to whether that Christian is actually saved or not. It ignores a myriad of warnings by Christ and His apostles about how we are to judge, and needlessly drives wedges between brothers and sisters in Christ.
No one, no matter how Christlike, looks like Christ 24/7/365. It is impossible. The best of saints undergoes trial and testing and comes up short. But that's what trials and testings are about -- showing the weaknesses we all have so that we will allow the Holy Spirit to mold and shape us into something useful.
If you take an hour, a day, or a whole year out of any Christian's life and try to judge their salvation by it, chances are you're going to find a lot of "unsaved people." But remember Christ's words from the Sermon on the Mount.
Matthew 7, NASB
1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
In reviewing the words on this thread, I'd say there's a lot of logs to go around. I carry a log remover for myself on my smart phone. It's an app of the NASB. I walk around dropping my logs everywhere.
Man in his/ her rebellion fueled by the other sower, thumps his/her chest. Says, I am in control here..... I call these the Al Haig's of apostate Christianity .... He/she goes on in their rebellion gathering converts that fit there mold. In Truth the Merits of Salvation, whom He calls, perfects their faith in Him, and eventually calls Home, those Merits are grounded in Christ and His appeasement at the Cross, as the Father gives these souls to Christ For Salvation, this process ordained and initiated In Heaven without the spot of carnal stained flesh of men and women...
P
Question #2...... After we are converted are we then perfect? Question #3 We never ever sin again? and if we did Question #4 Were we not really converted the first time? Which leads me back to Question #2......Any answers? Cookie while we wait?
Who will answer these questions?
yes, please.
O
do you think we might say Christ intercedes for us so that we may come to repentance? [/QUOTE
======================================
well pm,
it certainly seems to be His plan, and we are personally ecstatic about this!
not having to live with a guilty conscience when we offend our Master,
it's so much to our benefit - because we know from experience that
a guilty conscience definitely gets in the way of our Spiritual growth.
being gifted with His forgiveness upon our repentance is our liberation,
a heavenly treasure that we can experience here on earth.
even though we have to say that we both have carried the burden of
a guilty conscience around needlessly, it has refined and redefined us
because we can't grasp the love of God 'all at once' and His many
benefits -
we've had so much experience in 'failing Him' that we have grown to
know that He is always there to stretch-out His hands and pick us up.
what can we say, except, PRAISE HIM, PRAISE HIM, ALL YE LITTLE CHILDREN'.
[/QUOTE======================================
well pm,
it certainly seems to be His plan, and we are personally ecstatic about this!
not having to live with a guilty conscience when we offend our Master,
it's so much to our benefit - because we know from experience that
a guilty conscience definitely gets in the way of our Spiritual growth.
being gifted with His forgiveness upon our repentance is our liberation,
a heavenly treasure that we can experience here on earth.
even though we have to say that we both have carried the burden of
a guilty conscience around needlessly, it has refined and redefined us
because we can't grasp the love of God 'all at once' and His many
benefits -
we've had so much experience in 'failing Him' that we have grown to
know that He is always there to stretch-out His hands and pick us up.
what can we say, except, PRAISE HIM, PRAISE HIM, ALL YE LITTLE CHILDREN'.
One should not be surprised at the amount of false conversions today.. The prince of the power of the air has been very busy sowing his weeds..... He's allowed to do this to fulfill the Word of God, he needs a congregation... The Eternal commands His own to stay in the Love of God , observant and vigilant, looking for His Mercy and His Return from Heaven for them.
Ephesians 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
This is the mystery;
1 Corinthians 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
None of us know the goodness of God when we are first coming to Him. We only hoped for mercy and provision. Just like the prodigal son. We didn't know how much more we would be given, freely. Just like the prodigal son...
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
This is the mystery;
1 Corinthians 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
None of us know the goodness of God when we are first coming to Him. We only hoped for mercy and provision. Just like the prodigal son. We didn't know how much more we would be given, freely. Just like the prodigal son...
Speaking of blondes. . .
One got on the plane and went straight to first-class section without a first-class ticket.
None of the personnel on the plane could get her to move
With repeated attempts, she would just reply, "I'm blonde, I'm pretty, and I'm going to Houston."
Finally someone came out from the cockpit, whispered in her ear, and she got up and went to her seat in the back.
The personnel were anxious to know what he told her.
He said, "I told her first class doesn't go to Houston."
One got on the plane and went straight to first-class section without a first-class ticket.
None of the personnel on the plane could get her to move
With repeated attempts, she would just reply, "I'm blonde, I'm pretty, and I'm going to Houston."
Finally someone came out from the cockpit, whispered in her ear, and she got up and went to her seat in the back.
The personnel were anxious to know what he told her.
He said, "I told her first class doesn't go to Houston."