For those who believe in false conversions even when people return...

[Elin]

Question #2...... After we are converted are we then perfect? Question #3 We never ever sin again? and if we did Question #4 Were we not really converted the first time? Which leads me back to Question #2......Any answers? Cookie while we wait?

Who will answer these questions?

The NT answers them all.

 

[psychomom]

Speaking of blondes. . .
One got on the plane and went straight to first-class section without a first-class ticket.
None of the personnel on the plane could get her to move
With repeated attempts, she would just reply, "I'm blonde, I'm pretty, and I'm going to Houston."
Finally someone came out from the cockpit, whispered in her ear, and she got up and went to her seat in the back.

The personnel were anxious to know what he told her.
He said, "I told her first class doesn't go to Houston."

whether or not this happened, you definitely need to tell more jokes!

LOL

 

[oldthennew]

So Blond here......Question.......Who determines who is converted and who isn't?

==========================================================

like the previous poster said, 'above all, God determines who is converted,
because He is the gift Giver.

we know that our Father presents His gifts to each of us at different
times in our walk - not all at once by any means, we will always have
heavenly opportunities bestowed upon us as we grow and learn His ways.

as we see in these verses, John and Paul were able to determine in these cases
the imposters from the real deal.

another example is that Paul clearly understood that the Pharisees in Galatians
did not have the Spirit, or they would have most definitely understood that the
teachings of Paul were valid.




1JOHN 2:19.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,
that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1CORINTHIANS 11:19.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved
may be made manifest among yu.

 

[Jason0047]

Doing an internet search is far from stalking.
If you do something on the internet it is public information, and to act outraged because you did something embarrassing is silly. You did it, not Dcon.

I have said this before, and as Marc noted, you don't listen to good advice. Altho I too disagree with Dcon and others here about sin, one should always judge themselves first, as scripture points out, so that we have no need of being judged by others. If you are a believer then other believers have, not only the right, but a duty to judge you.

You like seeing your name on the screen. You have the appearance of being prideful, and the bible has a few things to say about pride. I would suggest,and do so without bitterness or anger, that you look in the mirror. Everyone, including me, have things we need to improve on. Physically and spiritually. To not believe that is to display arrogance and pride. Think about it Jason.

Oh, good. Do you want me to have a private eye stalk you in public and video capture everything wrong you do in public? No. Of course not. It is stalking (Whether it was public or private, or even on the internet). Besides, it was something that I did when I was not following Jesus Christ and before I renewed my faith. But do you really care about that? Do you think digging up things in a Christian's life that they have repented of is going to win you brownie points with God? I say thee nay. If a believer confesses and forsakes their sin they are forgiven. Honestly, I cannot really blame you for attacking me. You cannot help it. The children of the bondwoman have always persecuted the children who are free. For did I set out to discredit DC or you? No, most certainly not. DC's life and your life is between you and God. I cannot look at what you did in the past and determine if you repented of it or not.

Anyways, may the Lord's love shine upon you.
And I do hope you see the truth in where I am coming from.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Ephesians 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

This is the mystery;

1 Corinthians 2:9-10

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


None of us know the goodness of God when we are first coming to Him. We only hoped for mercy and provision. Just like the prodigal son. We didn't know how much more we would be given, freely. Just like the prodigal son...

We are Seated with Him in Heavenly places... Indeed. It is truly a Mystery .. When you know your Election of God and understand this, the adversary gets very nervous. Lolz. Good place to have him!!!

 

[Jason0047]

That MAY be part true,but you left out one other part. Whatever is NOT of AGAPE LOVE is sin. That type of love CAN NOT SIN. And none of have reached the point where we love so completely as God loved us. And sin is MISSING the mark of AGAPE LOVE. Because remember the SUM of the law and the prophets is to LOVE the Lord God with ALL your mind,heart,soul and strength and the second is to LOVE your neighbor as yourself. And none of have reached we do so COMPLETELY. (We're still in training)

No. John says if you do not love your brother you are in darkness (See 1 John 2). He also says that he that hates his brother is a murderer, and then he says we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (See 1 John 3). Meaning, if a believer hates their brother, then there is no eternal life abiding within them. For he that does not love does not know God. For God is love. John's point is that if you do not love others, then how can you love God in whom you have not seen? (1 John 4:20). In other words, the two are tied together (i.e. Loving others and loving God).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

No. John says if you do not love your brother you are in darkness (See 1 John 2). He also says that he that hates his brother is a murderer, and then he says we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (See 1 John 3). Meaning, if a believer hates their brother, then there is no eternal life abiding within them. For he that does not love does not know God. For God is love. John's point is that if you do not love others, then how can you love God in whom you have not seen? (1 John 4:20). In other words, the two are tied together (i.e. Loving others and loving God).

How do you love apostates? Lots of those today. Whhooa. Nellie! You love them from a distance... And after more than 3 rebukes .. You reject them. God the Father knows His Own. You leave them and from their they will continue to be Hardened as Pharaoh was hardened , He able to keep them unto their day of visitation and destruction!

 

[Jason0047]

Nope. . .justification is God's declaration of "not guilty," rightwise (righteous) standing before him by grace alone through faith.

What kind of faith are you talking about? A demon belief type faith that is mentioned in James 5? For the devil's also believe and tremble. True faith is described as bearing good fruit as seen In Hebrews 11.

That would be the obedience of saving faith.

God does save us in Justification. He does give us grace to do those things that He commands us to do. We do these commands because we love Him. For Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. Jesus said if you are his mother, brother, and sister are those who do God the Father's will. But if we do not obey Jesus Christ, it proves that our conversion was either false or we have chosen to turn away from God and then love this world and or sin instead. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.

Glorification is what happens to the believer's physical spiritual body in the resurrection (1Co 15:43),
as it did to Jesus physical spiritual body in his resurrection.

Believers are resurrected spiritually in the Pre-Trib Rapture. But Scripture still says in several places that Jesus still has a physical body. It i snot some glorified body that the church likes to teach these days. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say or imply Jesus has a glorified body. That is just someone's imagination working overtime.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

This was according to prophecy (Luke 1:15, Luke 7:28)

John 7:33 For John the Baptist came ((neither)) eating bread (( nor )) drinking wine;

and ye say, He hath a devil.


John 7:34 The Son of man ((is come)) eating (( and )) drinking;

and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, (( and )) a winebibber,

a friend of publicans and sinners!

Which is again according to what the Lord would do the charge are according to the highlights (in contrast between John) sent before Christ and Christ (who come after John) and the eating and drinking accusations (as in truth Christ come doing so and what their wisdom called these things (thats why) ... YE SAY (in accord) which is the same as here

The befreinding of sinners is the charge against him according to the same

Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

There is (right there) his goodness and his uprightness being charged (falsely) in their doing just this

To slap on a sexual deviance charge againt the Lord (in their own sayings) is wrong, thats a false charge. One they didnt even make (through observing him).

They observed the eating (he come doing) and the drinking (he come doing) and spilled out the whole gluttonous (according to the flesh) and winebidder (according to the flesh) charges in their own after the flesh judgments (in their wisdom).

So also was the freind of sinners, which is an accusation of the very goodness and uprightness of God (in that doing) their own wisdom missed.

But they never even attributed Jesus doing something sexually immorral but rather would test him in their own thoughts (as he knew them) in respects to their perception of what he was doing, and what he should have known (according to him) like when at the house of a pharisee, saying This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

But again, that charge of befriending sinners belongs to him

Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

Not any sexual immorality

My reply had nothing to do with Jesus and understand quite well he did not engage in any immoral sexual activity.
I was using Luke 8 to show folks the past Character of the women he delivered, that walked with him.

 

[Elin]

Nope. . .justification is God's declaration of "not guilty," rightwise (righteous) standing (position) before him by grace alone through faith.

What kind of faith are you talking about? A demon belief type faith that is mentioned in James 5? For the devil's also believe and tremble. True faith is described as bearing good fruit as seen In Hebrews 11.

I'm talking about God justifying (Ro 4:5) and reconciling to himself the wicked (Ro 5:10), not the obedient.

What kind of justification and gift of righteousness (Ro 5:17) are you talking about?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

GOD! no one else can read a heart

About all we can do is discern someone gospel. as if it is from God or not. otherwise he can not discern a persons true spiritual status

The Bible says the Holy Spirit will show you all things.

When I was a Pastor, I was told many times by the Holy Spirit during the altar call who needed Jesus and who would refuse.

He would also show me what was keeping a person from receiving Jesus Christ, so I could minister to that person.

This is why there is a big difference between witnessing and sharing the gospel.

Your witness should be read of all men, saved or unsaved.

Only the Holy Spirit can lead you to share the Gospel.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Forgot to mention yesterday in the testimony about sorcery and it being forced on me to confirm to an image. God Himself brought a helpmeet my way who, with her son had experienced the same thing. Amazing how He works with His Own. Indeed!

 

[DesiredHaven]

Your not listening to a word I am saying, If your not going to listen, they why bother responding?

Your scripture reference has nothing to do about what I said, because that is what the author said about him, not what the Jewish Sadducee and pharisees said about him.

The Holy Ghost by Jesus Christ showed in scripture what they called him there and by what reason he was called that in that very context.

Scripture, nor its author, or the witness in it of the Sadducees and Pharisees have nothing to do with the words you inserted into them. So it has everything to do with what YOU said, because its not in the record.

your sitting here and going to argue that I said jesus was a sinner, when I never said anything even remotely like that!

Please dont lie, I never said you said Jesus was a sinner. We know already they believed him to be according to what is written of him (and even according to what is there).

I said You said (((that they said))) Jesus was a sex fanatic addict, and all I did (BIG MISTAKE)

was asked WHERE (in the scripture) does it show that they did that?

And its been like doing the two step with you as usual. You and him are equal in beating around the bush, in fact you have Jason beat, he is LESS tiring to do rounds with.

This is the conversation,


Its a dishonest game to play trying to throw people off your path of being dishonest and in respects to your own words from the start which were questioned , lastly you respond after quoting my post which is preceeded by you laughing as if its not going anywhere whereas you are blantantly lying against Jesus Christ even if it be through the Pharisees

You are corrupting Gods words

Your not listening to a word I am saying, If your not going to listen, they why bother responding?

You said,

poor Jesus did not get the memo. he was called a drunkard and a sex fanatic because he hung out with drunks and prostitutes

Thats a lie, I asked,

Where was Jesus called a sex fanatic? I missed that one.

I just see

John 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine;

and ye say, He hath a devil.

John 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking;

and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

He was called such (gluttonous, and winebibber) for coming in doing those things, being a FRIEND OF these. he was NOT accused of being a sex addict/ fanatic.

the sinners would have been the prostitutes. How many prostitute friends did jesus have?

The idea, is like the idea of the legalistic church, If you hang out with them, you must participate in their sin, or may fall into temptation. so we must separate ourselves from them.

No. We need to be like Christ and go out to them.

I might be pushing with the sex addict thing, since your right it does not come out and say that. But I am sure

they did, all his prostitute friends (he even stood up for one when he said let he who has no sin cast the first stone)

This was according to prophecy (Luke 1:15, Luke 7:28)

John 7:33 For John the Baptist came ((neither)) eating bread (( nor )) drinking wine;

and ye say, He hath a devil.


John 7:34 The Son of man ((is come)) eating (( and )) drinking;

and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, (( and )) a winebibber,

a friend of publicans and sinners!

Which is again according to what the Lord would do the charge are according to the highlights (in contrast between John) sent before Christ and Christ (who come after John) and the eating and drinking accusations (as in truth Christ come doing so and what their wisdom called these things (thats why) ... YE SAY (in accord) which is the same as here

The befreinding of sinners is the charge against him according to the same

Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

There is (right there) his goodness and his uprightness being charged (falsely) in their doing just this

To slap on a sexual deviance charge againt the Lord (in their own sayings) is wrong, thats a false charge. One they didnt even make (through observing him).

They observed the eating (he come doing) and the drinking (he come doing) and spilled out the whole gluttonous (according to the flesh) and winebidder (according to the flesh) charges in their own after the flesh judgments (in their wisdom).

So also was the freind of sinners, which is an accusation of the very goodness and uprightness of God (in that doing) their own wisdom missed.

But they never even attributed Jesus doing something sexually immorral but rather would test him in their own thoughts (as he knew them) in respects to their perception of what he was doing, and what he should have known (according to him) like when at the house of a pharisee, saying This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

But again, that charge of befriending sinners belongs to him

Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

Not any sexual immorality

Who is not listening???

Just to note

I did not claim jesus was a drunkard or sex addict. I said he was convicted of it bythe jewish legalists.

I never said you claimed, you claimed that they claimed, please get that staright after the multitude of posts will you? And start laughing at yourself for dragging this thing out.

You said just this,

poor Jesus did not get the memo. he was called a drunkard and a sex fanatic because he hung out with drunks and prostitutes

And from the start I kep asking where he was called this

I just didnt see where he was convicted of being a sex addict or sex fanatic as you coin the term as that would make Jesus (not being married) to be both a fornicator and a sinner in accord with the truth (when we know he is not).

Then I quote to you the scriptures (in that place) which show exactly what they called him (for the third time)

Then you respond

Your not listening to a word I am saying, If your not going to listen, they why bother responding?

Your scripture reference has nothing to do about what I said,(snip)

Yes it does, because post #58 only rehighlights the first paragraph of post #55 to you which you apparently missed. You were the one quoting the words I posted and then you asked in according to those very things this...

so your gonna say the pharisees did not call jesus these things?

I asked using the scriptures themselves WHERE they called him these things and you keep throwing up diversions.

Your posts arent lost as if no one can see how you wanted them buried while you two stepped.

You attach your false sexual immoral charges against the Lord Jesus Christ and blame it on others (as if they said what you said). They accused him falsely ( no doubt) but and now you (hiding behind them) put your own false charges against the Lord into their mouths (which are against him) and then wipe your own mouth as if you did nothing wrong.

All this so you can be some champion of truth all the while corrupting the truth.

This is my last response to this folly

(as well as those who support you in these lies)

 

[DesiredHaven]

My reply had nothing to do with Jesus and understand quite well he did not engage in any immoral sexual activity.
I was using Luke 8 to show folks the past Character of the women he delivered, that walked with him.

Yes I know what they were

Even the parable shows the same

Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first.
Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not:
but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it,
repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

This is pretty elemental

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Question#2...... After we are converted are we then perfect?

No, We are babes in Christ, and as babes, must learn. So it would be impossible to be perfect. However, we are in Christ, so positionally (via the blood) we are perfect Conditionally we are not.

Question #3 We never ever sin again?

1 John 1, If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves. and there is no truth in us, Not my words. but the words of the apostle John.

and if we did Question #4 Were we not really converted the first time?

Maybe, maybe not.

Which leads me back to Question #2......Any answers? Cookie while we wait?

Who will answer these questions?

Yes, I would love a cookie!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Holy Ghost by Jesus Christ showed in scripture what they called him there and by what reason he was called that in that very context.

Scripture, nor its author, or the witness in it of the Sadducees and Pharisees have nothing to do with the words you inserted into them. So it has everything to do with what YOU said, because its not in the record.

So the scripture you posted said that jesus was a sinner? (since you claiming that is what I said) wow. Now I have heard everything.

Just so you know. Jesus never sinned. In case you forgot.

Please dont lie, I never said you said Jesus was a sinner. We know already they believed him to be according to what is written of him (and even according to what is there).

I said You said (((that they said))) Jesus was a sex fanatic addict, and all I did (BIG MISTAKE)

was asked WHERE (in the scripture) does it show that they did that?

And I admitted after you showed me that I may have been wrong, But you did not want to stop there. you want to keep going on. So I must wonder why?

And its been like doing the two step with you as usual. You and him are equal in beating around the bush, in fact you have Jason beat, he is LESS tiring to do rounds with.

lol. Thanks, Now I know where your coming from. Why don't you join Jason.

This is the conversation,


Its a dishonest game to play trying to throw people off your path of being dishonest and in respects to your own words from the start which were questioned , lastly you respond after quoting my post which is preceeded by you laughing as if its not going anywhere whereas you are blantantly lying against Jesus Christ even if it be through the Pharisees

You are corrupting Gods words



You said,



Thats a lie, I asked,



He was called such (gluttonous, and winebibber) for coming in doing those things, being a FRIEND OF these. he was NOT accused of being a sex addict/ fanatic.






Who is not listening???




I never said you claimed, you claimed that they claimed, please get that staright after the multitude of posts will you? And start laughing at yourself for dragging this thing out.

You said just this,



And from the start I kep asking where he was called this



Then I quote to you the scriptures (in that place) which show exactly what they called him (for the third time)

Then you respond




Yes it does, because post #58 only rehighlights the first paragraph of post #55 to you which you apparently missed. You were the one quoting the words I posted and then you asked in according to those very things this...



I asked using the scriptures themselves WHERE they called him these things and you keep throwing up diversions.

Your posts arent lost as if no one can see how you wanted them buried while you two stepped.

You attach your false sexual immoral charges against the Lord Jesus Christ and blame it on others (as if they said what you said). They accused him falsely ( no doubt) but and now you (hiding behind them) put your own false charges against the Lord into their mouths (which are against him) and then wipe your own mouth as if you did nothing wrong.

All this so you can be some champion of truth all the while corrupting the truth.

This is my last response to this folly

(as well as those who support you in these lies)

nothing else was worth responding to. Please do not converse with me anymore. It is obvious you like to argue.

 

[SarahM777]

Question #2...... After we are converted are we then perfect? Question #3 We never ever sin again? and if we did Question #4 Were we not really converted the first time? Which leads me back to Question #2......Any answers? Cookie while we wait?

Who will answer these questions?

So again the question should be is Did David or Peter ever LOSE their faith? I have yet to find. Jesus NEVER says Peter would lose his faith. So was it their faith that CAUSED both Peter and David to repent?

 

[Jeff_56]

yahweh's grace and their heart ..... remember they had a heart after (seeking, longing for) yahweh/ TORAH/ TRUTH.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Yes I know what they were

Even the parable shows the same

Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first.
Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not:
but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it,
repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

This is pretty elemental

If this all pretty elemental, then why did you even reply the first time and what is your point with this reply?

Or do you just like the sound of your own typing?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

The Holy Ghost by Jesus Christ showed in scripture what they called him there and by what reason he was called that in that very context.

Scripture, nor its author, or the witness in it of the Sadducees and Pharisees have nothing to do with the words you inserted into them. So it has everything to do with what YOU said, because its not in the record.


Please dont lie, I never said you said Jesus was a sinner. We know already they believed him to be according to what is written of him (and even according to what is there).

I said You said (((that they said))) Jesus was a sex fanatic addict, and all I did (BIG MISTAKE)

was asked WHERE (in the scripture) does it show that they did that?

And its been like doing the two step with you as usual. You and him are equal in beating around the bush, in fact you have Jason beat, he is LESS tiring to do rounds with.

This is the conversation,


Its a dishonest game to play trying to throw people off your path of being dishonest and in respects to your own words from the start which were questioned , lastly you respond after quoting my post which is preceeded by you laughing as if its not going anywhere whereas you are blantantly lying against Jesus Christ even if it be through the Pharisees

You are corrupting Gods words



You said,



Thats a lie, I asked,



He was called such (gluttonous, and winebibber) for coming in doing those things, being a FRIEND OF these. he was NOT accused of being a sex addict/ fanatic.






Who is not listening???




I never said you claimed, you claimed that they claimed, please get that staright after the multitude of posts will you? And start laughing at yourself for dragging this thing out.

You said just this,



And from the start I kep asking where he was called this



Then I quote to you the scriptures (in that place) which show exactly what they called him (for the third time)

Then you respond




Yes it does, because post #58 only rehighlights the first paragraph of post #55 to you which you apparently missed. You were the one quoting the words I posted and then you asked in according to those very things this...



I asked using the scriptures themselves WHERE they called him these things and you keep throwing up diversions.

Your posts arent lost as if no one can see how you wanted them buried while you two stepped.

You attach your false sexual immoral charges against the Lord Jesus Christ and blame it on others (as if they said what you said). They accused him falsely ( no doubt) but and now you (hiding behind them) put your own false charges against the Lord into their mouths (which are against him) and then wipe your own mouth as if you did nothing wrong.

All this so you can be some champion of truth all the while corrupting the truth.

This is my last response to this folly

(as well as those who support you in these lies)

Yeah, you like the sound of your own typing alright.