Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

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Feb 7, 2013
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Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law (Torah), or the prophets : I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Therefore 'keep on thinking' like in example, a 'Pharisee' of the Torah and 'remain unfaithful', being in the Torah still.

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST forgive you and bless you in 'Spiritual discernment' of the written HOLY BIBLE, to be learned by the 'Help' of the HOLY SPIRIT, 'anointed' in us of 'FAITH' to all of them.
 
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Biblelogic01

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Ok, so let's look at it that way. Fine.

But for Torah to be completely done away with, it also states until earth and heaven have passed away. Earth and heaven are both still in existance. Along with that, Yeshua had to of taught to follow Torah, if Yeshua taught to not follow Torah He would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven according to His own words. Same with the apostles.

Also for Torah to be inexistance after the cross would have to imply God changed Himself to benefit us.
I mean with the way you're wording everything towards me as far as me following Torah, is kind of like you're accusing me of being sinful for following it. How is it sinful to follow something that is holy? It's not only concidered holy according to God but also according to the apostles (which is who we get our teachings from)? Also if I've only seen good, and a closer relationship in my walk come out of Torah, how is that from "satan"? In the Torah its says do this and you will be blessed. What you've stated is because I've followed Torah, and have had blessings in doing so, it's from "satan", even though that contradicts what scripture says. Why would John say sin is lawlessness? Again at this period of time there was only 1 thing they would be referencing when they say "the law", and that is Torah. So according to John, sin is Torahlessness. So based off of that, you telling me I'm wrong for following Torah, is the same as telling me it's ok for us to be sinful. To me that would be abusing grace. I'm not saying I am sinless or I am perfect, no one is perfect. But we are called to walk with the Spirit and follow Yeshua, and be disciples. Do you know what a disciple is? It's someone who follows after someone and learns their ways. So if we are to be disciples of Yeshua, we are to be following Him and walking in His ways. If Yeshua and God are one, then the Torah was given by Yeshua and the Torah is His ways.

I have not seen any evil come from Torah, except these ridiculous debates, and people saying it's wrong to follow Torah and judge those who do follow it (I have not judge one person, I just state my point of view). Torah makes you aware of sin, it isn't sin itself. Are we not to be aware of what is sinful and what is not? Or are you saying we are to just walk blindly and not be aware of sin to avoid it?

Now if your come back to that is 'well we walk in the Spirit'. My answer, is the Spirit is aware of what sin is, the Spirit already knows which way to walk, and the Spirit (whether it is taught or not) is going to lead someone in the same walk of Torah. The majority of people who walk in the Spirit are walking in a lot of Torah, but don't even know it. When Yeshua or the apostles stated to "not fall into idoltry, not to murder, not steal, not to fall in adultry, not hate, not to look to mediums or phsycics", where do you think they got this from? It wasn't something new that they came up with, it was from the Torah.


Again blessings from the Most High to you, I will not slader you or curse you. If you really think I am so so so wrong in following Torah, then let God judge me for it and I will find out in the end if I was wrong in doing so or not. You are not my judge, He is.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Therefore 'keep on thinking' like in example, a 'Pharisee' of the Torah and 'remain unfaithful', being in the Torah still.

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST forgive you and bless you in 'Spiritual discernment' of the written HOLY BIBLE, to be learned by the 'Help' of the HOLY SPIRIT, 'anointed' in us of 'FAITH' to all of them.
We are not 'killing' the Torah, but 'upholding' them according to the New Covenant, given by the MESSIAH, to be 'rooted' in 'FAITH', and 'practicing', 'abiding' and in 'action'.

By this the 'Torah', in 'FAITH' now as 'born again' of the New Covenant, is, with or without us, already considered 'fulfilled' by our LORD JESUS CHRIST for GOD and HIS believers, believe as it is written, in 'FAITH' lambs and sheep who have been 'fed' and being 'fed' the same time and time again until the 'man of GOD perish'.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Ok, so let's look at it that way. Fine.

But for Torah to be completely done away with, it also states until earth and heaven have passed away. Earth and heaven are both still in existance. Along with that, Yeshua had to of taught to follow Torah, if Yeshua taught to not follow Torah He would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven according to His own words. Same with the apostles.

Also for Torah to be inexistance after the cross would have to imply God changed Himself to benefit us.
I mean with the way you're wording everything towards me as far as me following Torah, is kind of like you're accusing me of being sinful for following it. How is it sinful to follow something that is holy? It's not only concidered holy according to God but also according to the apostles (which is who we get our teachings from)? Also if I've only seen good, and a closer relationship in my walk come out of Torah, how is that from "satan"? In the Torah its says do this and you will be blessed. What you've stated is because I've followed Torah, and have had blessings in doing so, it's from "satan", even though that contradicts what scripture says. Why would John say sin is lawlessness? Again at this period of time there was only 1 thing they would be referencing when they say "the law", and that is Torah. So according to John, sin is Torahlessness. So based off of that, you telling me I'm wrong for following Torah, is the same as telling me it's ok for us to be sinful. To me that would be abusing grace. I'm not saying I am sinless or I am perfect, no one is perfect. But we are called to walk with the Spirit and follow Yeshua, and be disciples. Do you know what a disciple is? It's someone who follows after someone and learns their ways. So if we are to be disciples of Yeshua, we are to be following Him and walking in His ways. If Yeshua and God are one, then the Torah was given by Yeshua and the Torah is His ways.

I have not seen any evil come from Torah, except these ridiculous debates, and people saying it's wrong to follow Torah and judge those who do follow it (I have not judge one person, I just state my point of view). Torah makes you aware of sin, it isn't sin itself. Are we not to be aware of what is sinful and what is not? Or are you saying we are to just walk blindly and not be aware of sin to avoid it?

Now if your come back to that is 'well we walk in the Spirit'. My answer, is the Spirit is aware of what sin is, the Spirit already knows which way to walk, and the Spirit (whether it is taught or not) is going to lead someone in the same walk of Torah. The majority of people who walk in the Spirit are walking in a lot of Torah, but don't even know it. When Yeshua or the apostles stated to "not fall into idoltry, not to murder, not steal, not to fall in adultry, not hate, not to look to mediums or phsycics", where do you think they got this from? It wasn't something new that they came up with, it was from the Torah.


Again blessings from the Most High to you, I will not slader you or curse you. If you really think I am so so so wrong in following Torah, then let God judge me for it and I will find out in the end if I was wrong in doing so or not. You are not my judge, He is.
Torah/God's law, not mans traditions are for the "lawless" for sure. Those that demand to be absent from Torah are lawless. No one can escape this truth. Jesus never taught anything that was against His Father's original plan and chronology. First things first. It's a allegory, not an analogy according to our liking. What was in the beginning according to God's creation still is relevant for today. If it wasn't God would have not preserved it for our understanding. If we know the creation story, we should also know the Torah.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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When the temple veil tore, I believe that was the spirit being released. Behind the veil was the Holy of Holys which is where the spirit dwelled.
Is that stated anywhere in Scripture?

There is Scripture which states the curtain was opened (torn) so we could with confidence now enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, whose body was torn to open the way into the divine presence, allowing the born again's access to the throne of grace (Heb 10:19-22).
 
Jan 19, 2013
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There is a right way and a wrong way for Christians to observe the law. First that it is spiritual, and yes it is the schoolmaster. The wrong way for Christians to observe it is continuing to view it as condemnation, which we all know we are free from in Christ. Before salvation it was condemning to us, revealing to the carnal mind, and fleshly persuasions that dominated us before our salvation.
It was condemning for one reason only, imperfect obedience to it (Gal 3:10) which does not save.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Work and wisdom of a believer is all given through Christ via the Holy Spirit. Backing away from God as the Israelites did, is by the worshiping of false god's.
That is unbelief--not just a failure to keep the Mosaic regulations--for which there is no forgiveness.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
Therefore 'keep on thinking' like in example, a 'Pharisee' of the Torah and 'remain unfaithful', being in the Torah still.

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST forgive you and bless you in 'Spiritual discernment' of the written HOLY BIBLE, to be learned by the 'Help' of the HOLY SPIRIT, 'anointed' in us of 'FAITH' to all of them.

Ok what you are saying does not make sense or lines up with scripture. Are you stating that Yeshua was teaching against Torah and not to follow it? I would like a direct answer to this question.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
Is that stated anywhere in Scripture?

There is Scripture which states the curtain was opened (torn) so we could with confidence now enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, whose body was torn to open the way into the divine presence, allowing the born again's access to the throne of grace (Heb 10:19-22).
You worded it better than I did sister. I do agree with you on that. But that is what happenned when the veil tore. I'm stating that the veil tearing is not the abolishment of the Torah, which is what the post I commented on stated.


P.S.
Sometimes when I say something it comes out different than what I meant to say. I've always had that problem :(
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Jason 0047 said:
While certain teaching of the Old Testament have been repeated in the New Testament, there are obviously many things in the New Testament that conflicts with the Old Testament. The New Testament Law of Christ replaces the Old Testament Law of Moses. The Old has passed away and given way to the New. For you cannot put new wine into old wine skins otherwise they will burst.
If that is the case the Word contradicts itself.
The word no more contradicts itself than God contradicts himself in the cessation of animal sacrifices.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Well, I gave you the scriptures for you to read, so with your post and what you said I will quote. Paul was instructed and like all others like me and him, were/are not able to follow it with perfection. We agree on that one for sure.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

Is there a difference between observing and believing in your opinion? Semantics I suppose.
Yes, that law foretold the coming of the Anointed One, and his redemptive work establisihing the new order (Heb 9:10), which changed the Levitical priesthood to the new eternal priesthood of Melchizedek, make the old covenant obsolete, fulfilled the entire law in only two commandments, etc.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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We all see the spiritual relevance in what Jesus taught about the sycamine tree being uprooted and thrown into the sea, describing faith as a tiny mustard seed. We also see the spiritual relevance of having faith to move a mountain out of our way. Why is it so difficult for the professing Christian to see spiritual relevance in the written law that God gave to Moses? It's just like the eye for and eye and at tooth for a tooth thing. Jesus never contradicted the true meaning of the law in any way. He wasn't attempting to teach something different in the law's original spiritual concepts.
What's the problem?
The NT describes it in Ro 13: 8, 9, 10; Mt 22:7-40.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Observing is watching. Observing is to see the spiritual concepts of what it represents. If we see the truth in our observation, we believe it as Paul believed it in Acts 24:14. I like what Paul believed. Substance and light are necessary to cast a shadow.
If we, as professing Christians want the shadow gone, because we have the substance of faith (Hebrews 11:1) then we have to also get rid of the light and substance.
Who made that rule? Is it found anywhere in Scripture?

Whether or not there is a shadow of anything does not alter the reality of the thing.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I thought that JC allegedly said that he came NOT to destroy the law .... 'not one not or title would pass away' .... etc etc
Seems to me he was an observant Jew. Did they not call him 'Rabbi' ?
Yes, he was born, lived, preached and died under the old covenant, observing its laws.

New covenant revelation could not be fully given until after his death, since his death was the basis of it all.

All NT revelation is not contained in the gospels alone.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Jason0047 An eye for an eye agrees with the turning of the other cheek in relation to the God of equity.
That makes no sense.

Where in Scripture do we find this "God of equity"?
 
Feb 7, 2013
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'spirit being released'. Behind the veil was the Holy of Holys which is where the spirit dwelled.
i am sorry to say this on behalf of you lambs and sheep of the Living GOD given to CHRIST in knowledge and action 'FAITH'.

REPENT 'oh ye little faith' Biblelogic01!

For you are a 'liar' of our written HOLY BIBLE knowledge 'FAITH', which we have received by the 'Help' of the 'Teacher' representing CHRIST and HE is the HOLY SPIRIT, again HE is representing the 'author and finisher of our faith'-LORD JESUS CHRIST, according to HIS 'authored' HOLY BIBLE, HE has written for us all and left behind.

To tell you the Truth' and 'witnessing knowledge faith' testimonies, whether they are 'false' or are in 'founded truth', as it is already written, yherefore 'listen and pay attention' that it is actually the 'presence of GOD' who left the 'Holy of Hollies', for the MESSIAH have 'accomplished' all things for us in knowledge 'FAITH', and now LORD JESUS CHRIST is the GREAT HIGH PRIEST in the 'original Holy of Hollies' in Heaven, 'pleading and praying' for us all, who are 'rooted' in 'Living written knowledge testimonial faith and action', to the 'living' and to the 'lost', for them to 'work out' or to 'receive' GOD's Salvation according to the New Covenant..

Stop continue to 'lie' to those who are 'taught' according to the HOLY BIBLE knowledge and in 'FAITH', and therefore rather 'repent/stop turn around' and learn to be Kingdom 'wise' in 'witnessing' spiritual people of GOD, or else you are only laboring in 'vain', in carnal/flesh 'passions and desires' and for the 'devil', in his quest to 'devour'.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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We are not to make judgments concerning vengance, for it is God's right not ours. God is a God of equity, and if you study the law of the eye for an eye thing you would see that it is not humans who make the equity status right. Jesus didn't change the concepts of God's equity, and how we are suppose to adhere to that by loving Him and our neighbor.
"God of equity"?

Where is that in the Bible?
 
Apr 9, 2015
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That makes no sense.

Where in Scripture do we find this "God of equity"?
he's following a political correct God, which is created by Man as he/she pulls God down to his/her level and makes Him out to be 'what they want Him to be'.. Political correctness, no matter what country it rears its lovely but diababolical manipulation is one of the fruits of the Mystery of Iniquity! its alive and well in about every country on this planet today. It will tie into the Opening of the Seals and the Horseman.. indeed.. the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, according to these people.. CANNOT NOT HAVE Favorites or His Elect, in their 'eyes everybody is Elected'.. use that wisdom when you elect a governeor or President.. all citizens then are 'elected. .no... parties CHOOSE their canidates .. Just as God has CHOSE THOSE IN HIM SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, if ALL were elected.. whats the Point in an Election? lolz.. see the confusion.. oh and the serpent has sowed those tares , strategically and cunningly.. indeed.. oh believe me, i've gone face to face with these imposters and apostates, they get really nervous because the Merits of Salvation and His Character have NEVER changed... they try to 'change' Him.. He Laughs at their tactics.. smh
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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"Causing enmity to cease." Just this part of the quote in context is a profound meditation, and carries the great revelation so many should receive. Thank you J-M, this is an incredible share....
Yes, the Gentiles are no longer unclean because they are not Jews.

There is no longer a religious basis for enmity between the two.