Millions of years ago ! ?

[ivanc0]

By oldhermmit

In Gen 1 we are told that the earth was initially created in deluge but just how much water could have covered the earth?
A. Separating the waters.

1. Expanse = distance.
2. How much water covered the earth? 5.5 miles in depth minimum.
3. How much water was taken into the troposphere? At least 4 miles in depth.
4. How much water still covered the earth? Approx. 1.5 miles in depth.

B. Considered factors are the amount of water needed to cover Mt. Everest at 29,029 feet + 22 feet to satisfy the draft of the ark = 5.5 miles of standing water. This is not that inconceivable. Mariana's Trench at its deepest known point is 36,200 feet or 6.8 miles. The expanse of verse six is the formation of an atmosphere.

In chapter seven we find the account of the flood.

A. Flood dynamics, 11-24.

1. Eruption of ALL subterranean chambers, “The fountains of the deep burst open,” 11. This is total and prolonged geological upheaval and cannot simply be reconciled with any “local flood” theories confined to the Near East. Just from a scientific point of view what would be taking place on the earth if and event such as this occurred? He are some of the effects of such a catastrophic activity:

a. Dramatically and immediate enlarged ocean basins.
b. Rapid elevation of the continents, Psalms 104:4-5.
c. Massive global volcanic and seismic activity – earthquakes and tsunamis.
d. Oceans of rolling mud swallowing everything in its path.
All of this happening in a matter of days.

B. Depth of the flood waters – 29,029' + 22' to allow for the draft of the ark. This is a water depth of 5.5 miles needed to cover the highest mountain peaks if Mt. Everest is used as the standard.
C. The 'prevailing” of the waters – The waters continued to rise for 150 days, 18-24.

1. The rain stopped after 40 days.
2. The fountains of the deep continued to rise for an additional 110 days or five months, 8:2.

After all the activity ends:
A. A wind to facilitate the evaporation process – God uses the natural process of time and the elements – wind and heat.

B. The time sequence

1. For five months – 150 days the waters continued to rise.
2. After God brings the wind, it takes two months for the water to subside enough for the ark to touch ground.
3. After another two months and thirteen days, the mountain tops become visible. This probably represents a minimum water loss of 22'. This is now a total of nine months and thirteen days.
4. After forty more days, Noah opens the window of the ark. Sends out both the raven and the dove. Only the dove returns. Why. The raven, being a carnivore and a scavenger, is able to find both land and food. There are about thirty days of time here that are unaccounted for.
5. After seven more days he sends out the dove the second time and the dove returns.
6. After another seven days he sends the dove out for the third time and the dove does not return.
7. Noah remains in the ark for another ten days.
8. Total amount of time on the ark – twelve months, and ten days.

My Kind Friend I have to disagree with you.
What fountains of the interior? the earth is covered by water, there no not more possibility for internal fountains to flow, againts presure and gravity laws.

What tusunamis or earthquakes?

how many thousands of years after Noa events is psalm 104?

if all the ice and rain fall to earth at one instant, it will raise the ocean by some tens of meters, not thousands.

Your source is as unreliable a it could be, Is called Dogma.

 

[oldhermit]

My Kind Friend I have to disagree with you.
What fountains of the interior? the earth is covered by water, there no not more possibility for internal fountains to flow, againts presure and gravity laws.

What tusunamis or earthquakes?

how many thousands of years after Noa events is psalm 104?

if all the ice and rain fall to earth at one instant, it will raise the ocean by some tens of meters, not thousands.

Your source is as unreliable a it could be, Is called Dogma.

You have not really given this much thought or investigation to any of this have you. If all of the evolutionary theories are so unshakeable I cannot help but wonder why there are so many scientists in every field of scientific discipline who are creationists. They see the same evidences as the atheists. Why do you suppose there is such a disagreement in the interpretation of all of this evidence?

 

[Tintin]

more speculation, even 8kms is just a scar in earth dim mentions, and water put pressure evenly. keep reading you bible, I think you are good at it. but you need to change your name from tintin to tontin.

Tontin? You're ridiculous. And please work on your comprehension skills. You keep accusing some here of things they didn't even say.

 

[KJV1611]

You have not really given this much thought or investigation to any of this have you. If all of the evolutionary theories are so unshakeable I cannot help but wonder why there are so many scientists in every field of scientific discipline who are creationists. They see the same evidences as the atheists. Why do you suppose there is such a disagreement in the interpretation of all of this evidence?

You may find this interesting Oldhermit.

Evidence of enormous water reservoir trapped in the earth's mantle.

 

[ivanc0]

You have not really given this much thought or investigation to any of this have you. If all of the evolutionary theories are so unshakeable I cannot help but wonder why there are so many scientists in every field of scientific discipline who are creationists. They see the same evidences as the atheists. Why do you suppose there is such a disagreement in the interpretation of all of this evidence?

I am a Christian, I believe God created the cell, and support the theory of evolution, many people have two minds one at work and another at church. not me.

 

[ivanc0]

Tontin? You're ridiculous. And please work on your comprehension skills. You keep accusing some here of things they didn't even say.

my apologies.

 

[KJV1611]

I am a Christian, I believe God created the cell, and support the theory of evolution, many people have two minds one at work and another at church. not me.

Do you know of any scripture that supports evolution?

 

[oldhermit]

You may find this interesting Oldhermit.

Evidence of enormous water reservoir trapped in the earth's mantle.

Thanks for the link. This should not be knew knowledge because scripture already tells us that the waters of the subterranean chambers combined with the limited emptying of the waters in the troposphere were of such sufficient quantity to cover the earth with a depth of water that was sufficient to keep the ark above the highest peaks.

 

[Tintin]

I am a Christian, I believe God created the cell, and support the theory of evolution, many people have two minds one at work and another at church. not me.

No, not you. Not at all. Because evolution and church go together like bread and butter. *smirks*

 

[Tintin]

You may find this interesting Oldhermit.

Evidence of enormous water reservoir trapped in the earth's mantle.

And there are artesian basins all over the world that point to a global Flood.

 

[oldhermit]

I am a Christian, I believe God created the cell, and support the theory of evolution, many people have two minds one at work and another at church. not me.

Claiming to be Christian does not make one a Christian. Any time there is a conflict between the Bible and the scientific interpretation of physical 'evidences' it is NEVER the Bible that is in error. The Account in Gen is correct and all the 'evidences' in the world have never been able to stand against that account.

I am guessing you are no longer interested in continuing our examination of the nature of God. I really did not figure you would have the fortitude to stay with that discussion.

 

[JackH]

them believing in a 6,000 year old creation, because they take the Bible and Ussher's calculations and work from there. You can't get 10,000 or even 7,000 years from his calculations.

Who knows why Ussher's dates were removed from the bible?

 

[JackH]

If all of the evolutionary theories are so unshakeable I cannot help but wonder why there are so many scientists in every field of scientific discipline who are creationists. They see the same evidences as the atheists. Why do you suppose there is such a disagreement in the interpretation of all of this evidence?

Who are these scientists who provide evidence that the world is around 6,000 years old and in what reputable scientific journal is that evidence published?

Please provide a link to such information.

And please hurry because I'm holding my breath waiting for it.

 

[oldhermit]

Who are these scientists who provide evidence that the world is around 6,000 years old and in what reputable scientific journal is that evidence published?

Please provide a link to such information.

And please hurry because I'm holding my breath waiting for it.

Well, I think Tintin can probably provide you with this information better than I can but here is a list of sites you may want to look at. Perhaps this would be a good place to begin if you wish to research this.

From Creation Scientists with Outstanding Credentials
Dr Raymond V. Damadian - Inventor of the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) Dr Raymond V. Damadian would probably be too humble to accept the title 'super-scientist' but the many people whose lives have been saved by the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scanning technology he developed might think otherwise. Hailed as one of the greatest diagnostic breakthroughs ever, this technique, using advanced principles of physics and computing, lets doctors visualize many organs and their diseased parts without the risks of exploratory surgery or the radiation associated with traditional scanning methods. See http://answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v16n3_MRI.asp.
Dr. John R. Baumgardner(Geophysicist)
U.S. News & World Report (June 16, 1997) devoted a respectful four-page article to the work of Dr John Baumgardner, calling him "the world's pre-eminent expert in the design of computer models for geophysical convection." Dr. Baumgardner earned degrees from Texas Tech University (B.S., electrical engineering), and Princeton University (M.S., electrical engineering), and earned a Ph.D. in geophysics and space physics from UCLA. Since 1984 he has been employed as a technical staff member at Los Alamos (New Mexico) National Laboratory. Also see Scientists Who Believe: An Interview with Dr. John Baumgardner, and Probing the Earth's Deep Places.
Dr Ian Macreadie (Molecular Biologist and Microbiologist)Author of more than 60 research papers, he is a Principal Research Scientist at the Biomolecular Research Institute of Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO), and national secretary of the Australian Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. In 1997 he was part of a team which won the CSIRO’s top prize, the Chairman’s Medal. In 1995 he won the Australian Society for Microbiology’s top award, for outstanding contributions to research. See Interview with Dr Ian Macreadie.
Dr. Raymond Jones (Agricultural Scientist)This, combined with Dr Jones' other achievements in improving the productivity of the tropical grazing industries, caused CSIRO chief Dr Elizabeth Heij to describe him as ‘one of the top few CSIRO scientists in Australia’. Among the awards he has received are the CSIRO Gold Medal for Research Excellence, and the Urrbrae Award, the latter in recognition of the practical significance of his work for the grazing industry. See Interview with Dr. Raymond Jones.
Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (3 Doctorates and a 3-star NATO General)The late Dr. Arthur E.Wilder-Smith, an honored scientist with an amazing three earned doctorates. He held many distinguished positions. A former Evolutionist, Dr. Wilder-Smith debated various leading scientists on the subject throughout the world. In his opinion, the Evolution model did not fit as well with the established facts of science as did the Creation model of intelligent design. His background is referenced in footnote #4 at Do real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net.
Dr. Robert Gentry(nuclear physicist) Dr. Robert V. Gentry is a nuclear physicist who worked 13 years for the Oakridge National Laboratory as a guest scientist. During the time he worked there, he was recognized as the world's leading authority in his area of research. It is interesting to note that when he began his research, he was an evolutionist. Today, Dr. Gentry is a fully convinced young earth creation scientist.

 

[Tintin]

Who knows why Ussher's dates were removed from the bible?

Me. Because evolutionary teaching and/or uniformitarian beliefs became the mainstream and biblical creation was relegated to the understanding of myth. Thanks, 19th century German liberal Bible scholars! Those morons did a bang-up job of helping people disbelieve the Bible.

 

[valiant]

Who knows why Ussher's dates were removed from the bible?

Possibly by God? He knew that they were not reliable and should not be a part of His word.

Take the 'ages' of the patriarchs. Just go through and list how many end in 5 or 10. (5 was initially the basis of counting before the decimal system came in). It is extremely unlikely that they represent their factual ages. The truth is that these ages probably had a significance that we cannot now understand. In Abraham's time at Ur of the Chaldees the Sumerians had reached a peak in mathematics not known again for a thousand years.

Adam's age = 930 which is the perfect 70 short of 1000 the ideal age. He fell short of the ideal

Enoch = 365 years to fit the days of the year. He was a heavenly man.

Lamech 777 = divine perfection prior to Noah.

Noah 900 years = thrice completeness.

just some suggestions.

 

[oldhermit]

Me. Because evolutionary teaching and/or uniformitarian beliefs became the mainstream and biblical creation was relegated to the understanding of myth. Thanks, 19th century German liberal Bible scholars! Those morons did a bang-up job of helping people disbelieve the Bible.

Yep, and I think all of this can be traces back to Civil War America.Since the Civil War, this country has experienced a conscious shift from education based upon theology and religion to one rooted in science. Early nineteenth century America had very definite views about the causation and origin of the universe and man's role in creation. There were narrowly defined standards of what was morally acceptable both socially and privately. Since the second half of the nineteenth century however, there has been a deliberate shift in American society about how these issues should be addressed in the educational arena and how they should be represented by society as a whole. How did this shift begin and what prompted it? What have been its effects upon education and the moral fiber of society? What have been its effects upon the Church and how she is regarded within society?

This shift of an educational focus was the result of a reassessment of moral and religious values in Civil War America. Long held values and beliefs had come under fire during the years of the Civil War. Such philosophers as Oliver Wendell Holmes, William James, Charles Sanders Peirce, John Dewey and others began to reshape the value system of America on one side or the other.

Because of his experiences in the war, Holmes began to question the validity of religious value systems. He developed resentment toward all religious leaders. He believed that religious certitude was responsible for creating the social climate that plunged the country into three ears of bloodshed. He came to believe that matters of right and wrong were not based upon eternal principles but upon human circumstances, that truth was individually subjective and therefore unknowable. William James fostered a pragmatic philosophy of science and religion. James believed that the universe was run by pragmatism, not by design. This removed God completely from the equation. He believed that intellectualism superseded divine revelation as the American standard for life. He believed that one could know nothing for certain and had no use for a moral value system. This is much the same idea that was held by Adolphe Quetelet who said, "There is no certainty, there are only people who are certain."(p. 289). James was convinced that no truth could ever be determined as absolute and certainly not on the individual basis. It is always the social consciousness that is the ultimate standard rather than individual convictions.

These types of philosophical approaches to how social structures should be measured led to the complete overhaul of the private and public educational systems in America. As these men began to exert greater and greater influence in the universities, the shift from theologically based educational programs to a scientific based education began to spread rapidly. Religious values were set aside in favor of a more pragmatic and rationalistic approach to life and reality. The sciences were adopted as the new standard of education. What is considered to be knowledge has become more and more a product of social engineering. Over the past one hundred and forty seven years since the Civil War, God has been incrementally removed from our educational institutions as well as from the social consciousness. Right and wrong are no longer determined by a revealed standard but by a collective social consciousness.

The presence of these philosophical ideas is not just unique to secular education. They have not so subtly infiltrated schools of religious education as well. It has undermined scripture as the standard of morality and eroded the Christian ethic. The Church has lost her standing in society as the harbinger of right and wrong. She has been tolerated by society only so long as she does not attempt to impose any divine standard of morality. The Church will be tolerated only as long as she accepts the world's view of reality and adopts a collective social consciousness that agrees with the social aggregate.

 

[sltaylor]

Let's squash this debate of how long the days were with scripture and understanding once and for all.

JESUS said it is still day 6:
John 4: 34-"My food,"*said Jesus,*"is to do the will of him who sent me and to FINISH his work.*
John 5: 17-Jesus said to them,*"My Father*is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."*
So let's just break these two quotes from Jesus down..#1-Jesus came to finish the work in man so they could be like God...remember a man must be born again, God is holy, therefore we MUST BE HOLY, and as Hebrews 10:14 states-"because by one sacrifice he has made perfect*forever those who are being made holy."...and being MADE HOLY is still happening every day. This is why he stated "It is finished" while hanging upon the cross. What was finished??? The work he said he came to finish, a sacrifice of himself, so men could be wiped clean and put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and Holiness.
Verse #2: God is at his work to this very day: Jesus said it pretty clearly, remember they were accusing him of working on the Sabbath and pretty much Jesus told them they didn't understand, the work of Day 6, the day of which God said Let US make man, wasn't finished, the phrase US would take understanding, God started it, Jesus came to finish it. He is literally the Alpha and Omega, he finished the first chapter of Genesis.
God's image:Invisible holy beauty light honor power immortal.
Earthly man's image: darkness weakness dishonor sinful mortal
Christ is the resurrection: Born Again Man's image: immortal, holy thru the sacrifice, walks by the light, led by and one with the invisible spirit....sounds more like God's image right. God's image is more than appearance, it's a frame of mind:
Ephesians 4:23-to be made new in the attitude of your minds;*
24*and to put on*the new self, CREATED TO BE LIKE GOD in true righteousness and holiness.*
So to understand day six and the transformation of earthly man to spirit man, is more than one chapter in Genesis. It is an understanding in what Christ was saying about the Father and the lack of his Father in humanity. Holy is set apart and above, and humanity must be transformed by their minds and hearts to be that way as well. How do I know I am right, well it just makes too much sense. Sinful man is not like God. Jesus came to change that. He completed the beginning. That just makes too much sense. All things were created thru him, and by believing in his sacrifice, this is how man is created thru him as well, even to this very day.

 

[oldhermit]

Let's squash this debate of how long the days were with scripture and understanding once and for all.

JESUS said it is still day 6:
John 4: 34-"My food,"*said Jesus,*"is to do the will of him who sent me and to FINISH his work.*
John 5: 17-Jesus said to them,*"My Father*is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."*
So let's just break these two quotes from Jesus down..#1-Jesus came to finish the work in man so they could be like God...remember a man must be born again, God is holy, therefore we MUST BE HOLY, and as Hebrews 10:14 states-"because by one sacrifice he has made perfect*forever those who are being made holy."...and being MADE HOLY is still happening every day. This is why he stated "It is finished" while hanging upon the cross. What was finished??? The work he said he came to finish, a sacrifice of himself, so men could be wiped clean and put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and Holiness.
Verse #2: God is at his work to this very day: Jesus said it pretty clearly, remember they were accusing him of working on the Sabbath and pretty much Jesus told them they didn't understand, the work of Day 6, the day of which God said Let US make man, wasn't finished, the phrase US would take understanding, God started it, Jesus came to finish it. He is literally the Alpha and Omega, he finished the first chapter of Genesis.
God's image:Invisible holy beauty light honor power immortal.
Earthly man's image: darkness weakness dishonor sinful mortal
Christ is the resurrection: Born Again Man's image: immortal, holy thru the sacrifice, walks by the light, led by and one with the invisible spirit....sounds more like God's image right. God's image is more than appearance, it's a frame of mind:
Ephesians 4:23-to be made new in the attitude of your minds;*
24*and to put on*the new self, CREATED TO BE LIKE GOD in true righteousness and holiness.*
So to understand day six and the transformation of earthly man to spirit man, is more than one chapter in Genesis. It is an understanding in what Christ was saying about the Father and the lack of his Father in humanity. Holy is set apart and above, and humanity must be transformed by their minds and hearts to be that way as well. How do I know I am right, well it just makes too much sense. Sinful man is not like God. Jesus came to change that. He completed the beginning. That just makes too much sense. All things were created thru him, and by believing in his sacrifice, this is how man is created thru him as well, even to this very day.

Also Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

 

[sltaylor]

Expanse is not just merely atmosphere for on day 4 he puts the sun moon and stars in that very expanse, the expanse of the sky is the universe and on the other side, the highest heaven, aka: waters above the sky.