Someone please answer my question .

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Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#1
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#1
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

When anyone calls any Holy Bible "scripture",
yet believes only the O.T. original autographs
were given by inspiration of God, it is dishonest.

They don't have the O.T. original autographs.


or if anyone believes only the original O.T. & N.T. autographs
were scripture given by inspiration of God,
it is also dishonest to call what they scripture.

They don't have the O.T. or N.T. original manuscripts.


What is the truth about this ?




 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#2
Jul 28, 2012
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#2
I really do not think anyone is going to take you seriously from here on out. You may as well not clutter up the site with pointless questions that are only intended to create an argument.
 
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Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#3
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#3


no, I'm serious, not to doubtful disputation,

strive or contention but in sincerity, I ask

What is the truth about this ?



 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#4
Jul 28, 2012
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#4
Very well. Yes, the original are the inspired documents. These were recopied from many sources over the centuries my men who were fallible and as a result we find many variants within the surviving ancient manuscripts because translators and copiers are not inspired yet, the inspiration of the content of scripture remains in tact. There are a number of reasons for the existence of MSS variants All translations without exception have issues with translational errors. This is due to a number of reasons. Sometimes these variations reflect the bias of the translators, whether it is a translational comity or an individual as in the case of the Phillips translation or the Moffit translation or the Berkley translation or the McCord translation, etc. Sometimes it is due to the fact that there are some words in the Hebrew or the Greek languages that simply do not have an English equivalent. In such cases, the only thing that the translators can do is try to convey the meaning that the original word expresses. This can sometimes be subject to personal bias. Still, other times these variations are the result of differences between the ancient manuscripts themselves. These differences are the result of a number of possibilities that have nothing to do with deliberate or nefarious intent such as fatigue, misspelling, poor lighting, line confusion, poor eye sight, or just simple carelessness on the part of the scribe who was copying the document. There are lots of reasons why the variants appear. Most linguistic scholars try very hard to uphold the integrity of the original languages. Oddly enough, this seems especially true of those scholars who are nonbelievers. The reason is because they have no religious agendas nor any thoelogical axes to grind. The only thing they care about is their reputation as a linguistic scholar. Therefore, they are more concerned about getting it right than about defending any particular religious doctrine.
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#5
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#5



I know, so, please oldhermit, since only the original manuscripts

were scripture given by inspiration of God,

what we have now are reliable reconstructed texts, right, yes ?



 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#6
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#6
oldhermit said:
Very well. Yes, the original are the inspired documents. These were recopied from many sources over the centuries my men who were fallible and as a result we find many variants within the surviving ancient manuscripts because translators and copiers are not inspired yet, the inspiration of the content of scripture remains in tact. There are a number of reasons for the existence of MSS variants All translations without exception have issues with translational errors. This is due to a number of reasons. Sometimes these variations reflect the bias of the translators, whether it is a translational comity or an individual as in the case of the Phillips translation or the Moffit translation or the Berkley translation or the McCord translation, etc. Sometimes it is due to the fact that there are some words in the Hebrew or the Greek languages that simply do not have an English equivalent. In such cases, the only thing that the translators can do is try to convey the meaning that the original word expresses. This can sometimes be subject to personal bias. Still, other times these variations are the result of differences between the ancient manuscripts themselves. These differences are the result of a number of possibilities that have nothing to do with deliberate or nefarious intent such as fatigue, misspelling, poor lighting, line confusion, poor eye sight, or just simple carelessness on the part of the scribe who was copying the document. There are lots of reasons why the variants appear. Most linguistic scholars try very hard to uphold the integrity of the original languages. Oddly enough, this seems especially true of those scholars who are nonbelievers. The reason is because they have no religious agendas nor any thoelogical axes to grind. The only thing they care about is their reputation as a linguistic scholar. Therefore, they are more concerned about getting it right than about defending any particular religious doctrine.
Click to expand...
A good summary. I would add that there are quite a number of Hebrew words we simply do not know the meaning of. Furthermore if the Hebrew text was translated literally large numbers of people would have great difficulty in knowing what it meant because of its idioms. The AV is not a literal translation of the Hebrew.
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#7
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#7
Makahiya2028 said:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

When anyone calls any Holy Bible "scripture",
yet believes only the O.T. original autographs
were given by inspiration of God, it is dishonest. They don't have the O.T. original autographs. or if anyone believes only the original O.T. & N.T. autographs were scripture given by inspiration of God, it is also dishonest to call what they scripture. They don't have the O.T. or N.T. original manuscripts.

What is the truth about this ?
Click to expand...
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous

the truth is hard to take. is anyone ready? .................. anyone ......

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God.."

no scripture is open to interpretation by men.

only as God grants understanding does anyone understand anything.

unless you give up family, friends, homes,
unless you give up everything,

you cannot be Jesus' disciple.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#8
Jul 28, 2012
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#8
Makahiya2028 said:



I know, so, please oldhermit, since only the original manuscripts

were scripture given by inspiration of God,

what we have now are reliable reconstructed texts, right, yes ?
Click to expand...
Yes, I would agree with that.
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#9
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#9
ok, so, if what we have today are reliable reconstructed texts,

then what can we call scripture ?


Obviously, an individual is dishonest or a novice

to call the N.T. "scripture" if they believe

only the O.T. is scripture .
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#10
Jul 28, 2012
9,145
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#10
Makahiya2028 said:
ok, so, if what we have today are reliable reconstructed texts,

then what can we call scripture ?


Obviously, an individual is dishonest or a novice

to call the N.T. "scripture" if they believe

only the O.T. is scripture .
Click to expand...
The OT is as much scripture as the NT. The term scripture is applied to sacred writings. Whatever God has revealed to man and recorded for our learning and instruction is scripture.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#11
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#11
valiant said:
A good summary. I would add that there are quite a number of Hebrew words we simply do not know the meaning of. Furthermore if the Hebrew text was translated literally large numbers of people would have great difficulty in knowing what it meant because of its idioms. The AV is not a literal translation of the Hebrew.
Click to expand...
Why the H___ can't people EVER seem to understand this simple fact?
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#12
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#12
oldhermit said:
The OT is as much scripture as the NT. The term scripture is applied to sacred writings. Whatever God has revealed to man and recorded for our learning and instruction is scripture.
Click to expand...

I am carefully reading your statements.

I'm refreshed this morning and I am serious and sincere.

The Lord's mercies are new every morning.

Which Holy Bibles does that include ?



 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#13
Jul 28, 2012
9,145
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#13
Makahiya2028 said:
I am carefully reading your statements.

I'm refreshed this morning and I am serious and sincere.

The Lord's mercies are new every morning.

Which Holy Bibles does that include ?
Click to expand...
I am not sure what you are really asking here. While most translations are reliable there are others that are obviously perverted, some profoundly so.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#14
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#14
Where in scripture do we find that God's word can be lost or corrupted?
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#15
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#15
oldhermit said:
The OT is as much scripture as the NT. The term scripture is applied to sacred writings. Whatever God has revealed to man and recorded for our learning and instruction is scripture.
Click to expand...

Which Holy Bibles today does that include ?

 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#16
Jul 28, 2012
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#16
KJV1611 said:
Where in scripture do we find that God's word can be lost or corrupted?
Click to expand...
"not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ." Gal 1:7

"as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." 2Pet. 3:16

"But ‘the burden of the LORD’ you shall mention no more, for the burden is every man’s own word, and you pervert the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God." Jer. 23:36

"and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them." Acts 20:30
 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#17
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#17
KJV1611 said:
Where in scripture do we find that God's word can be lost or corrupted?
Click to expand...
I had the same thought.

I presented my theory based upon the thought :

Psalms 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them
from this generation for ever.






 
Makahiya2028

Makahiya2028

Banned
#20
Apr 13, 2015
257
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#20

It is perfectly obvious, oldhermit is a novice

and really insincere and a little creepy .
 
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