The Sons of God and the Nephilim (Genesis 6:1-4)

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Feb 24, 2015
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#61
What happened to them?
Assuming we are talking about compatible genetics, the offspring may have been seriously unhealthy. The problem with being a giant is simple, you need bucket loads of food. Why are the people in India, China etc so short? Because with continuous famines, harvest failures, wars, it is the people who survive on only a little who pull through.
Add to this if you are a giant, there are big circulation problems, health problems associated with weight and bulk just having to move around such a massive amount of material but with the same bones and muscles as everyone else.

So it is little wonder that these people are no more.

As far as contact with humans now, I suggest with the internet etc. they would be crazy to try, because there are no small corners of the world you can disappear into.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#62
Well, for one this is not a vision of Job's nor is he recounting this story. Also, the book of Job was written more than likely by Moses, not Job. So, are you assuming that because Satan and God are having this conversation that this "presentation" of the sons of God is something that is taking place in heaven? If so, what could this possibly have to do with Job and why would one automatically assume that Satan must be in heaven for this conversation between Satan and God to be taking place? Leviticus defines the terminology for us about one's presentation to Jehovah.
How do you reconcile Job 1.7 & Job 2.2 with your answer?

[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.


[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#63
Sons of God is a possessive term that identifies the people of God and belonging to God. Does being the Son of God mean that Jesus was an angel?
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I don't think so, but, then again, I'm not a Bible scholar to know yet. I've been working on the whole Bible in order for the last 13 months and I'm only on Lev. 23. It's going to take me a looooooooong time to get to Job or the NT. Don't tell me how it ends. lol (j/k. God wins. I've read it many times before. This is the first time I'm studying it from beginning to end verse by verse.)
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#64
When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the LORD said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

GENESIS 6:1-4 (5-8 must also be read for context, so...)

The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out from the earth the human beings I have created—people together with animals and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found favor in the sight of the Lord.


I've heard/read four views concerning the 'sons of God' in this most mysterious of Bible passages.

The sons of God:
1. Refers specifically to 'fallen' angels.
2. Represents the 'godly' descendants of Seth, one of Adam's sons.
3. Were kings or rulers who were described as 'gods'.
4. Were human beings possessed by demonic fallen angels.

Ever since my childhood, I've held to the first option being true. But in the past few years, I've reconsidered my position. I was possibly more influenced by Greek mythology than what the text truly said. The second option doesn't seem viable in my opinion, nor the other two, although I did consider them for a time. I'm going to propose a fifth option.

Taking into consideration the preceding chapters and the verses following Genesis 6:1-4:

5. a) We know Adam and Eve had many children (both sons and daughters) following the births of Cain, Abel (deceased) and later, Seth. Cain, after killing his brother, Abel, greatly feared God, while Seth followed in His ways. The two patriarchs would've passed their beliefs/attitudes/values onto their children eg. Enoch, Enosh). As numbers increased, some of Adam's children fell away from God (not just Cain's bloodline). It's very likely the different families moved away (Cain before all others) and that they later encountered each other in their travels/trade. During this time, the men of God fell for the ungodly women and married them (remember Sethites weren't all godly and all Cainites weren't evil). Therefore, the sons of God turned from God.

b) 'Nephilim' is an untranslated word meaning 'fallen ones'. This probably means nothing more than those people who followed their own hearts rather than God's. In one word: sinners - people who only did what was right in their own eyes. A pre-Flood example is the proud and violent Lamech (not Noah's father) who was the first to take two wives (Genesis 4:17-24 - Adah and Zilla), not one as God had commanded. Post-Flood examples abound: descendants of Shem, Ham and Japheth (Noah's sons) and their wives, made names for themselves through their tyrannical rules or ferocious military exploits and were recognised as great heroes. As we can see from history, many ancient cultures made religions of violence and war. Finally, possibly 'heroes' and 'warriors of renown' refer to early post-Flood descendants who lived considerably longer lives than their children and could be seen as 'great' for that reason alone.

Thoughts?

In all other OT occurrences of 'sons of God' the references are clearly to angels.

In exrta-Biblical Jewish writings 'sons of God' consistently refers to angels.

Why should this usage be different? IMO our understanding of the nephilim must hinge on our understanding of 'sons of God'.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#65
To:"And what changed that they are no longer mating with humans?" I would answer because of the judgement God gave to the first angels that did it. Chained in darkness until the judgement doesn't sound fun for anyone. After the first incursion "Genesis 6" and after the flood I think they learned how to open gateways and still had entities whispering to them through the shadows to instruct them. That's what some think the tower of Babel was, a gateway to the other realm. I also think this ties into modern day and the whole Alien abduction thing and why they are always said to be interested in our eggs and sperm. They can’t just have sex anymore because either, they know what will happen, or God made it where it can’t happen at all that way anymore? Also it never says the Nephilim could reproduce themselves, so they could have kids too. Plus once their bodies died they became the disembodied spirits we call demons, so they could still relay anything they know to humans that open themselves up to them.

That’s just a couple possibilities, but I’m not trying to present it like I KNOW or anything like that.

Wow! Sounds like Stargate. Where did you get this? And, more importantly, why do you trust it? (I like Stargate. I just don't use it for thoughts on theology or God.)
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#66
How do you reconcile Job 1.7 & Job 2.2 with your answer?

[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.


[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”
If this is a worship scenario the presence of God is among his worshipers (See the examples of the offering of sacrifices in Exodus 25:22 "There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.") This then is an earth bound experience. Clearly, Satan is also present. This does not necessitate that this is taking place in heaven. This is unwarranted conjecture.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#67
Sons of God is a possessive term that identifies the people of God and belonging to God. Does being the Son of God mean that Jesus was an angel?
Why are you and Marc disagreeing? I already got used to you two being right all the time. This is confusing me. :eek:
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#68
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I don't think so, but, then again, I'm not a Bible scholar to know yet. I've been working on the whole Bible in order for the last 13 months and I'm only on Lev. 23. It's going to take me a looooooooong time to get to Job or the NT. Don't tell me how it ends. lol (j/k. God wins. I've read it many times before. This is the first time I'm studying it from beginning to end verse by verse.)
Just get a concordance and look at all the times the term 'sons of God' is used and see who the subject is .
 
Apr 9, 2015
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#69
If this is a worship scenario the presence of God is among his worshipers (See the examples of the offering of sacrifices in Exodus 25:22 "There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.") This then is an earth bound experience. Clearly, Satan is also present. This does not necessitate that this is taking place in heaven. This is unwarranted conjecture.

be that as it may .. in your 'theology'. did the Israelites Possess the Literal Ark of the Covenant in the OT? ? then it would be Earthbound.. yes.. but satan manifesting himself amongst those 'worshippers'? why would he want to expose himself in True form to those he is deceiving? they would have to know he is there, what he looks like... if these are flesh/bone 'worshippers' in the LORD... they WOULD UNDERSTAND and know the reality of his appearance and character,mmmmmmmm as the Great Deceiver, he is what he is... unwarranted conjecture on my part, NO.. sorry.. that Mystery if Real.. it truly is.. sorry..
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#70
Assuming we are talking about compatible genetics, the offspring may have been seriously unhealthy. The problem with being a giant is simple, you need bucket loads of food. Why are the people in India, China etc so short? Because with continuous famines, harvest failures, wars, it is the people who survive on only a little who pull through.
Add to this if you are a giant, there are big circulation problems, health problems associated with weight and bulk just having to move around such a massive amount of material but with the same bones and muscles as everyone else.

So it is little wonder that these people are no more.

As far as contact with humans now, I suggest with the internet etc. they would be crazy to try, because there are no small corners of the world you can disappear into.
Have you ever been to Erial, NJ? Even people who live in Erial can't find Erial. (I'm not kidding. Drive through it and you think you simply drove past a railroad crossing in the middle of some woods.) Yeah, you can still hide. lol

I'm sorry, unless someone can give me strong evidence for this theory, I'm not buying it.
 
Apr 9, 2015
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#71
If this is a worship scenario the presence of God is among his worshipers (See the examples of the offering of sacrifices in Exodus 25:22 "There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.") This then is an earth bound experience. Clearly, Satan is also present. This does not necessitate that this is taking place in heaven. This is unwarranted conjecture.

Plus God is speaking to him (satan), so those 'worshippers' (flesh/bone) would of heard God's Voice as he talked with Satan who was amongst them.... as they worshipped and satan's dialoague with the ETernal One... was on going.. or as they were ready to present themselves.... putting a carnal aspect on a Supernatural event as Described in the Word, can lead to misinterpretation... indeed!
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#72
be that as it may .. in your 'theology'. did the Israelites Possess the Literal Ark of the Covenant in the OT? ? then it would be Earthbound.. yes.. but satan manifesting himself amongst those 'worshippers'? why would he want to expose himself in True form to those he is deceiving? they would have to know he is there, what he looks like... if these are flesh/bone 'worshippers' in the LORD... they WOULD UNDERSTAND and know the reality of his appearance and character,mmmmmmmm as the Great Deceiver, he is what he is... unwarranted conjecture on my part, NO.. sorry.. that Mystery if Real.. it truly is.. sorry..
Do you not think Satan is often present in the assembly of the Saints today seeking whom he may devour?

The Lord was there, did they know what he looked like. Do you think the presence of the Lord at the altar was a visible manifestation, or that this conversation was audible to the worshipers? Satan is no more visible to us that the Almighty is.
 
Apr 9, 2015
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#73
Do you not think Satan is often present in the assembly of the Saints today seeking whom he may devour?

The Lord was there, did they know what he looked like. Do you think the presence of the Lord at the altar was a visible manifestation? Satan is no more visible to us that the Almighty is.

Sorry I must disagree with this.. His Anointing will show you.. indeed.... He is present in the Litigation room where he accuses and he is present in this world, the god of this world.. to say he is INVISIBLE to all.. well.. those who War against Him, 'who goeth about a good wafare' KNOW what he looks like and his manifestation in the flesh he uses.. oh indeed! One would be very bad 'soldier' if one went out fighting an 'enemy' he/she claims to be invisible.... Soliders in His Army, they have been Equipped for the Battle, both in Sight and Hearing.. indeed... thats the difference between those walking in a fleshly state of mind.. and those Led of the Spirit.. indeed.. Unfortunately those in religion, when taught about the reality of a living devil, being exposed and his manifestations, well, those usually jump on the pharmaceutical band wagon and say.. 'more meds'.. and by that their fruit is manifest! indeed... Satan is a great deceiver, one does not expose him because they are crazy in the mind, nor have their eyes on the devil.. lolz. I heard this from so many religious people 16 year ago... darkness does not expose darkness.... LIGHT exposes darkness... even darkness coming posing as 'light'.. lots of that.!
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#75
Wow! Sounds like Stargate. Where did you get this? And, more importantly, why do you trust it? (I like Stargate. I just don't use it for thoughts on theology or God.)
I would say I "trust" it in the sense I think it happened, to be honest there are many more theories on how the Nephilim "returned" after the flood. I can't even remember the first place I heard the "Tower of Babel/Gateway" thing, But think a kind of gateway makes more sense than them building it tall enough to reach heaven in that way. Besides if the actual height was the only problem then you would think God would have stopped many of the modern building projects of the last 2 centuries.

I also want to put this in super clear perspective, I do feel this is what happen, and I think the bible supports it, that being said I really feel it’s a secondary issue and has no real bearing on salvation. To me it fits perfectly and even ties in to the other religions and other “gods” of this world, but I don’t think my eternal salvation would be at risk if I went with the Sethite theory. So as far as “trusting” it goes, I don’t see that necessarily a “trusting in” issue.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#77
Sorry I must disagree with this.. His Anointing will show you.. indeed.... He is present in the Litigation room where he accuses and he is present in this world, the god of this world.. to say he is INVISIBLE to all.. well.. those who War against Him, 'who goeth about a good wafare' KNOW what he looks like and his manifestation in the flesh he uses.. oh indeed! One would be very bad 'soldier' if one went out fighting an 'enemy' he/she claims to be invisible.... Soliders in His Army, they have been Equipped for the Battle, both in Sight and Hearing.. indeed... thats the difference between those walking in a fleshly state of mind.. and those Led of the Spirit.. indeed.. Unfortunately those in religion, when taught about the reality of a living devil, being exposed and his manifestations, well, those usually jump on the pharmaceutical band wagon and say.. 'more meds'.. and by that their fruit is manifest! indeed... Satan is a great deceiver, one does not expose him because they are crazy in the mind, nor have their eyes on the devil.. lolz. I heard this from so many religious people 16 year ago... darkness does not expose darkness.... LIGHT exposes darkness... even darkness coming posing as 'light'.. lots of that.!
The only times in scripture where God is seen in any form has always been in some type of theophonic manifestation where God assumes a form that is compatible with the limited capacity of the human senses. The only time this exception is presented is with Moses in Exodus 33 and this was an experience that was bound by extraordinary limitations and still it was too much for Moses. God simply cannot be seen by man except when God limits his appearance to something in the natural world. This does not reveal to us what God looks like.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#78
Sons of God is a possessive term that identifies the people of God and belonging to God. Does being the Son of God mean that Jesus was an angel?
oldhermit, What you have given is the NT usage of Sons of God; and within the context of the New Testament, you are quite correct.

The Hebrew and Greek languages differ from each other in many ways including syntax and idiom.

Even in Hebrew there is a significant difference between 'sons of God' and 'Son of God'. In Hebrew idiom, 'sons of God' refers to angels; but no individual angel would ever be called a Son of God. The Heberew word malach means messenger; and is used in reference to angels; but also in reference to human messengers: i. e. prophets, pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. The word malach is also used in reference to theophanies (pre-incarnate appearances of Christ). In His pre-incarnate appearances, Jesuis is refered to as (the Angel of God) very distinct fron an angel of God.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#79
If this is a worship scenario the presence of God is among his worshipers (See the examples of the offering of sacrifices in Exodus 25:22 "There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.") This then is an earth bound experience. Clearly, Satan is also present. This does not necessitate that this is taking place in heaven. This is unwarranted conjecture.
Clearly and without any conjecture you are educated beyond your means.