Is the Mark of the Beast Post-Rapture?

[christiancanadian]

Is the Mark of the Beast Post-Rapture?
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Here is my opinion (Please note the word opinion):

I believe the Bible clearly shows the Rapture will occur before (Pre-Trib) the tribulation.

Here is what my NLT study Bible says (These are not direct Biblical quotes but the best opinions of multiple scholars):
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2 Thes 2:3-4 "...that two events must take place first: a "great rebellion against God" and the arrival of "the man of lawlessness."

2 Thes 2:10-11 The ones who will be lead astray by the man of lawlessness will be those who refuse to believe the Word of God. They will follow this man because they have chosen to reject God and His truth. Therefore, God in His sovereighnty will cause them to believe the man of lawlessness and his lies.

I think the Mark of the Beast in Revelations is so frightening to many of us Christians because those who do not accept the mark will not be able to buy or sell. Therefore, how do we survive?

However, I do believe that the anti-christ will arrive while we true Christians are here, but his activity will not begin until after the Rapture (Basically, Satan has been laying the groundwork for the anti-christ for a very long time). Thus, the real horror of the anti-christ will not start until after we're gone. It will be the new Christians (who convert to Chrisitianity Post-Rapture) who will have to go through the torment of not accepting the mark.

P.S. Just as a side note and nothing more, I think the so-called "alien/ufo" phenomenon will be used to explain away what happened to us Christians after the Rapture. I've personally seen these so-called "aliens" first hand and I can say for certain without any doubt whatsoever that they are in fact demons. This "alien/ufo" phenomenon is really happening but it's a satanic lie. They are nothing more than demons.

Again, this thread is my opinion but you are certainly entitled to state yours. I am not a teacher, it is only my opinion. Please be kind and RESPECTFUL to each other as these issues tend to bring out strong views.

Thanks and God Bless!

 

[onwingsaseagles]

No it is not, the mark of the beast is given out when the anti christ takes control , the rapture does not occur until the post trib 2nd coming of Christ.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Christiancanadian, I'm a post-trib rapture believer myself..and I've often wondered about this statement..

It will be the new Christians (who convert to Chrisitianity Post-Rapture) who will have to go through the torment of not accepting the mark.

If all the true geniune christians have been raptured..how on earth are new Christian converts going to be made? Because there will be no one to evangelise them. Or do we just expect everyone to go "wow, those christians must be right", and start picking up bibles and studying them? I doubt it.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Good thing I am grounded in my faith in the truth of scripture or I will now doubt my belief in the post trib rapture.

 

[Slepsog4]

I do not accept any part of the Premillenial interpretation. There is no way the original audience of the book of Revelation would ever have understood it like the premi view suggests.

From the standpoint of the writing and the original audience these things were to soon take place and stand completed.

Therefore from our vantage point, the events of Revelation are now all history except for those few things concerning the judgment and eternity.

The book is most likely about the fall of Rome and esp. the reign of Domition.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

I do not accept any part of the Premillenial interpretation. There is no way the original audience of the book of Revelation would ever have understood it like the premi view suggests.

From the standpoint of the writing and the original audience these things were to soon take place and stand completed.

Therefore from our vantage point, the events of Revelation are now all history except for those few things concerning the judgment and eternity.

The book is most likely about the fall of Rome and esp. the reign of Domition.

Absurd, every single one of the apostles and all their disciples were premillennialist. Do a church history study!!!

 

[Slepsog4]

wings,

Don't pop a gasket. You are absolutely wrong on this point. Do you even understand the setting of reason Paul wrote to the Thessalonians?

The early church, esp. the Jewish members, understood the apocalyptic language found in the OT as it was connected to the fall of nations.

Rome was the 4 empire of Nebuchadnezzar's image, etc...

 

[onwingsaseagles]

wings,

Don't pop a gasket. You are absolutely wrong on this point. Do you even understand the setting of reason Paul wrote to the Thessalonians?

The early church, esp. the Jewish members, understood the apocalyptic language found in the OT as it was connected to the fall of nations.

Rome was the 4 empire of Nebuchadnezzar's image, etc...

I am pretty sure that Christian Canadian was asking preterist their opinion on the mark of the beast or the rapture ect... further more that is not what he wants this thread to turn into. If you want to spread your preterist propaganda, start your own thread.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Slepsog, I think our views are similar on this issue.. I believe certain things happened in the past, associated with the Roman Empire. This means we believe we are further through fulfilled biblical prophecy than some I suppose who believe the mark of the beast etc has not yet happened. But if there is a world wide chip implant program, rest assured I might just be giving up those beliefs that it all happened in the past.

 

[christiancanadian]

Slepsog, I think our views are similar on this issue.. I believe certain things happened in the past, associated with the Roman Empire. This means we believe we are further through fulfilled biblical prophecy than some I suppose who believe the mark of the beast etc has not yet happened. But if there is a world wide chip implant program, rest assured I might just be giving up those beliefs that it all happened in the past.

??? You tell me when the mark of the beast has happened??? You tell me what time in history nobody could buy or sell without the mark??? You can't. Because it hasn't happened yet.

 

[christiancanadian]

Christiancanadian, I'm a post-trib rapture believer myself..and I've often wondered about this statement..

It will be the new Christians (who convert to Chrisitianity Post-Rapture) who will have to go through the torment of not accepting the mark.

If all the true geniune christians have been raptured..how on earth are new Christian converts going to be made? Because there will be no one to evangelise them. Or do we just expect everyone to go "wow, those christians must be right", and start picking up bibles and studying them? I doubt it.

You make it sound as though there will be nothing left of Christianity whatsoever after the Rapture. You don't think many of the people left behind are going to wonder what happened to the Christians? Of course they will. It will be a simple puzzle to solve because it will only be genuine Christians gone! That's where I believe satan will come in with his "alien/ufo" lie to explain what happened, so that people close to believing still wouldn't!! However, I think some will see through the lie. As for nobody left to convert the people left behind...the Bibles are not being Raptured! The millions of Chrisitian videos are not being Raptured! The non-believers who still attended church are not being Raptured! I'm sure the Post-Rapture people left behind will be able to figure out Christianity just fine if they seek it.

 

[Baptistrw]

The Holy Spirit has to be removed for AntiChrist is revealed, so the mark will come after the Rapture to answer your question christiancanadien.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thess 2:3-10 (KJV)

 

[onwingsaseagles]

You make it sound as though there will be nothing left of Christianity whatsoever after the Rapture. You don't think many of the people left behind are going to wonder what happened to the Christians? Of course they will. It will be a simple puzzle to solve because it will only be genuine Christians gone! That's where I believe satan will come in with his "alien/ufo" lie to explain what happened, so that people close to believing still wouldn't!! However, I think some will see through the lie. As for nobody left to convert the people left behind...the Bibles are not being Raptured! The millions of Chrisitian videos are not being Raptured! The non-believers who still attended church are not being Raptured! I'm sure the Post-Rapture people left behind will be able to figure out Christianity just fine if they seek it.

The post rapture Christians all are going to be in glorified bodies ruling in the millennium. There is no such event in scripture as the pretrib rapture, it is a myth created by satan and nothing more.

 

[MahogonySnail]

You make it sound as though there will be nothing left of Christianity whatsoever after the Rapture.

There won't be, if there's no christians left, there's no church on earth, there's no christianity. If there's no church on earth, then there is no evangelism..simple.

You don't think many of the people left behind are going to wonder what happened to the Christians? Of course they will.

And they'll automatically conclude it must be the rapture right? I don't think so. If they don't believe in God, they aren't going to believe in christians being raptured. Just like the Jews didn't believe Jesus was risen from the dead, I doubt they will believe christians were miraculously whisked away.

It will be a simple puzzle to solve because it will only be genuine Christians gone!

But non-believers won't know that. And even non-genuine christians think they are genuine, so they won't know any different.

That's where I believe satan will come in with his "alien/ufo" lie to explain what happened, so that people close to believing still wouldn't!! However, I think some will see through the lie.

Alien ufo lie? . Where is that in scripture? This seems the stuff of a fictional movie, probably not how it works out in practice.

As for nobody left to convert the people left behind...the Bibles are not being Raptured! The millions of Chrisitian videos are not being Raptured! The non-believers who still attended church are not being Raptured! I'm sure the Post-Rapture people left behind will be able to figure out Christianity just fine if they seek it.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid. Try it yourself.. put a bible in the middle of the street and see how many unbelievers say "wow, a bible", pick it up, read it and convert to God. I think the bible is pretty clear that the preaching of the Gospel is needed. And if all those great evangelists are whisked away... there will be little if any evangelism and none, if any , converts. If unbelieveres don't care for christianity now, what makes you think they'll care for christianity then? What will cause them to seek christianity? And even if a non-believer attends church, even they won't know anything unless there is someone there to explain it to them. Just picking up a bible and reading it doesn't make anyone an evangelist.

Unbelievers would probably burn any bibles they find, rather than read them and convert to God. And there aren't enough bibles in the world to be able to convert everyone in the world left behind. It would restrict the conversions to only those areas that had sufficient bibles. And There are millions of christians in the world who don't have their own bible in Africa for example. If they are whisked away, there will be nothing of christian bibles or anything in those countries. There will be no new African christians converted. So going by your hypothetical scenario, the christians who are converted after being left behind , will consist mainly of Westerners, those with sufficient access to christian material, books, videos, etc.

 

[christiancanadian]

I cite the following from a very good website... http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs039m.pdf It explains in great detail from Dr. Frutchdenaum why the Rapture is pre-Trib.

for the home page of the website go to www.ariel.org

Another great area with numerous topics is found:
http://www.ariel.org/dcs.htm

Dr. Frutchdenbaum is an excellent teacher and I highly recommend anyone who questions the truth of the pre-Trib Rapture or other isssues to take a look at it.

Just as a side note, I have no association with the website whatsoever. A friend showed me it and I've found it to be very informative.

 

[easygoing]

hey canadian instead of me reposting what baptist posted just check it out above. clearly pretrib is going happen, and there are scriptures to back it. As far as the mark goes it does not specify a specific point at which the mark is to be taken but it will have to be taken in order to basically do any kind of transactions.
Like the website btw.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

hey canadian instead of me reposting what baptist posted just check it out above. clearly pretrib is going happen, and there are scriptures to back it. As far as the mark goes it does not specify a specific point at which the mark is to be taken but it will have to be taken in order to basically do any kind of transactions.
Like the website btw.

You joking right, what baptistrw does not prove pre trib rapture it proves post look at the first verse he quotes.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

What day will not come until after the falling away and the revelation of who the antichrist is?

well lets look at the first 2 verses of this chapture instead of starting with the 3rd.

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


So what day will not occur before the falling away and the anti christ being revealed. The day of the 2nd coming when Jesus returns to gather or rapture His elect or church. This passage of scripture says the day of the 2nd coming and rapture (Which is a singular day) will not happen until after the anti christ is revealed, that is not pretrib my freind just the opposite.

 

[easygoing]

rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I am certain that this clears up who will be bringing the people left behind to the lord mohagany

 

[MahogonySnail]

thanks easy going.. that's easier for me to accept than the idea that unbelievers will somehow think to pick up bibles they find lying around and become a christian.

But isn't there one problem with that verse you posted.. this angel in Ch. 14 has come after the beast fought against God's people on earth and defeated them as it says in Ch. 13.

Some commentaries I was reading say it is symbolic of a great evangelical effort which takes place, which is done by God's persecuted church. So it may not be referring to how God's people are still on the earth in the first place.

Peoples New Testament commentary :

I saw another angel flying in mid heaven. An angel is a messenger. Any agency that does God's work or carries his message may be an angel. This angel is a symbol. (1) His flying indicates some movement or change that shall take place with great rapidity. (2) The fact that he has the everlasting gospel shows that the movement symbolized is the evangelization of the world. (3) That the movement will be world wide is shown in that he speaks to all races. (4) His proclamation shows that he not only offers the glad tidings, but declares the consequences of their rejection. This all implies that the purification of the Church will be followed by a mighty gospel impulse which will sweep over the world. There is a sublime missionary spirit on the part of the revived Church. Full of zeal, breathing the spirit of the Master, permeated with the apostolic spirit, as in the days of old it will go everywhere preaching the world. The old, old story told by a holy people, told with a burning zeal and overflowing love, shall exhibit its divine power in the salvation of the nations.

 

[Rosinsky]

The mark of the beast is post-rapture. When we look at Revelation 13:5, we see that we are in the middle of the seven years tribulation period. (Rev 13:5 - And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [42 months])

When you divide the 42 months by 12 years, you get 3.5 years. Then just after a few verses, we see the mark of the beast. So the mark of the beast is at least after the first 3.5 years of the seven years tribulation.