Lawless reprobates. What's the real meaning?

[just-me]

well, do you believe that the father incarnated? Jesus talks about his will and the father's will, and they are different...

Jesus made changes to the law of Moses... or is that something you want to talk about?

Give some scripture that says Jesus will is different than His Father's will. I've never found that in scripture. What did Jesus change? Give scripture, like your interpretation of the sermon on the mount. I have studied the culture of that time, and the sermon Jesus preached confirms God's commandments and law, as not being changed but rightly defining the truth in the law.

 

[Dan_473]

Give some scripture that says Jesus will is different than His Father's will. I've never found that in scripture. What did Jesus change? Give scripture, like your interpretation of the sermon on the mount. I have studied the culture of that time, and the sermon Jesus preached confirms God's commandments and law, as not being changed but rightly defining the truth in the law.

that Jesus will is different from his father's... Jesus prayed 'not my will, but yours'

an example where Jesus changes the law... the law says don't murder, Jesus said don't call people fools...

 

[just-me]

that Jesus will is different from his father's... Jesus prayed 'not my will, but yours'

an example where Jesus changes the law... the law says don't murder, Jesus said don't call people fools...

It would do you well to study the spiritual meaning of the original instructions God gave to Israel. The teachings of both, that you mentioned, are revealing the desire and attitude of the heart. There is no difference. I'm sure that Jesus Christ is not saying it's ok to murder, just don't call anyone a fool. Neither one is a good thing according to Christ and His Father.

It would also do well to understand the intent of equity in relation to the sermon on the mount (turning the other cheek) and the eye for and eye thing in the law. There is no difference in intent. Jesus describes how to not let temptation take hold. This also relates to lust and adultery. Jesus instructs us to not let the intention take hold, instructing us not to follow through so we don't have to endure the "curse of the law." That's the difference from being under and free. It's us who need to see the works of the flesh via a carnal mindset.

 

[Dan_473]

It would do you well to study the spiritual meaning of the original instructions God gave to Israel. The teachings of both, that you mentioned, are revealing the desire and attitude of the heart. There is no difference. I'm sure that Jesus Christ is not saying it's ok to murder, just don't call anyone a fool. Neither one is a good thing according to Christ and His Father.

It would also do well to understand the intent of equity in relation to the sermon on the mount (turning the other cheek) and the eye for and eye thing in the law. There is no difference in intent. Jesus describes how to not let temptation take hold. This also relates to lust and adultery. Jesus instructs us to not let the intention take hold, instructing us not to follow through so we don't have to endure the "curse of the law." That's the difference from being under and free. It's us who need to see the works of the flesh via a carnal mindset.

yes! the desire and attitude of the heart! so, if keeping the law is just about the desires and attitudes in your heart, then I totally agree...

is this what you've been saying all along? that it's not about what you do physically with your actual hands?

I think all christians should keep the law that way!

 

[just-me]

yes! the desire and attitude of the heart! so, if keeping the law is just about the desires and attitudes in your heart, then I totally agree...

is this what you've been saying all along? that it's not about what you do physically with your actual hands?

I think all christians should keep the law that way!

Exactly. The law is still relevant, but it must be understood spiritually for God is a Spirit, and the persuasions in God's word are those things that motivate us into action according to His will. We then should study "all" of God's word, including the law He gave to Moses, and see the spiritual motivation of His will for us. Jesus Christ came to change us, He didn't come to change what cannot be changed and established by His own Father. The problem that causes adversity in the ranks of the church is that some false doctrines want to change the Word and blind us to the fact that Christ came to change us through faith in Him.

"Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be "established" with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein." Hebrews 13:9

 

[Dan_473]

Exactly. The law is still relevant, but it must be understood spiritually for God is a Spirit, and the persuasions in God's word are those things that motivate us into action according to His will. We then should study "all" of God's word, including the law He gave to Moses, and see the spiritual motivation of His will for us. Jesus Christ came to change us, He didn't come to change what cannot be changed and established by His own Father. The problem that causes adversity in the ranks of the church is that some false doctrines want to change the Word and blind us to the fact that Christ came to change us through faith in Him.

"Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be "established" with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein." Hebrews 13:9

sounds great! so, just to be sure we're talking about the same thing... the law says not to eat pork... but for us today that doesn't mean don't put pork in your physical mouth, it has a spiritual meaning... something like don't let bad stuff come out of you...

 

[just-me]

sounds great! so, just to be sure we're talking about the same thing... the law says not to eat pork... but for us today that doesn't mean don't put pork in your physical mouth, it has a spiritual meaning... something like don't let bad stuff come out of you...

I would put it a little different even though we totally agree. As believers in Christ Jesus, we are to be careful what we ingest and digest, because not every spirit is of God.

1 John 4:1-5
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. [SUP]
2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

This persuasion of truth can be seen in the "peace offerings" of the old Testament. The gallbladder and the kidneys were burned/destroyed along with the fat. Those items are for the digestive track, and the fat is strength for the flesh between meals. The fat also is fuel for the fire. When the carnal mind is destroyed by the blood of Christ it is a sweet savor unto the Lord via the High Priest who is our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 

[just-me]

sounds great! so, just to be sure we're talking about the same thing... the law says not to eat pork... but for us today that doesn't mean don't put pork in your physical mouth, it has a spiritual meaning... something like don't let bad stuff come out of you...

Even though a pig has a split hoof (that's of spiritual significance in itself) it doesn't have a cud to properly digest what it eats. The other thing about a pig is that it will eat garbage and is also of carnivorous origin. This all relates to the spiritual concepts of what we take into our thoughts, and digest within our hearts. We are never to digest corruption (even though we do because we live in a corrupt world) without a desire for God to cleanse us from the flesh on a daily basis.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

 

[Dan_473]

Even though a pig has a split hoof (that's of spiritual significance in itself) it doesn't have a cud to properly digest what it eats. The other thing about a pig is that it will eat garbage and is also of carnivorous origin. This all relates to the spiritual concepts of what we take into our thoughts, and digest within our hearts. We are never to digest corruption (even though we do because we live in a corrupt world) without a desire for God to cleanse us from the flesh on a daily basis.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

right, the law should be read to gain wisdom... the eating of physical bacon, though, isn't a problem...