Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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All this blather about relics and such. God made certain that the body of Moses was never to be found. God did this because God knew the sinful nature of man would cause him to venerate and worship the bones of Moses.
All of creation is Gods and we ought to rejoice and praise God for it. Creation testifies to the greatness of our God but we are to worship God and not His creation no matter how magnificent it happens to be and how much awe it inspires.
Religion venerates stuff while God desires hearts that seek His companionship. Rejoice to be in the presence of God not a pile of bones and such. God took the arc away for the same reason.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
All of creation is Gods and we ought to rejoice and praise God for it. Creation testifies to the greatness of our God but we are to worship God and not His creation no matter how magnificent it happens to be and how much awe it inspires.
Religion venerates stuff while God desires hearts that seek His companionship. Rejoice to be in the presence of God not a pile of bones and such. God took the arc away for the same reason.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
M
Only because you do not understand the shroud or Jewish burial custom, and have not researched them. I will leave you to discover why you are wrong, since you refuse to research anything, and it will be good for you to research then ,criticise in that order instead for once.
Even modern science cannot make it, so they could not. Your assertion is laughable, or would be if you knew enough to know how laughable it is! I cannot work out whether you are stupid or just lazy.
Even modern science cannot make it, so they could not. Your assertion is laughable, or would be if you knew enough to know how laughable it is! I cannot work out whether you are stupid or just lazy.
I realise you have no explanation for anything lol. you are all talk.
In October 2009 it was announced that scientists in Italy had made a cloth bearing an image very similar to the shroud. Luigi Garlaschelli, a professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, stated that, 'We have shown that it is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud'. One media article noted that, 'Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages. They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face. The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries. They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.
In October 2009 it was announced that scientists in Italy had made a cloth bearing an image very similar to the shroud. Luigi Garlaschelli, a professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, stated that, 'We have shown that it is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud'. One media article noted that, 'Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages. They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face. The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries. They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.
M
Which has no correspondence to the physics of the shroud, but since you will believe in anything , I am sure you believe this too,
your lack of knowledge of the shroud is astounding! You can discount his fake on a lot of details of what is said right there but I doubt if you know that. You may have a degree or even two, you learnt nothing but how to superimpose valiant world on what is really there.
So you give me five good reasons why that fake is irrelevant non research by a sceptic who failed to study the original, I can think of at least ten. When you can do that , you are worthy of further discussion. But not until.
We are not to Worship the Shroud like the Catholics do. To the Catholics physical items (relics) seem to be greater than God. What does God have to do with a piece of cloth? Why Mikeuk do you put so much faith in a piece of cloth and so little Faith in Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ died for our sins! Rejoice Mikeuk! Its God that matters, not a piece of cloth!
What exactly are you trying to prove with that piece of cloth? Is your PRIDE of being a Catholic that great that you focus on a piece of material and ignore what Jesus Christ did for you? Are you trying to prove you are a greater Christian then others because you have some secret knowledge we do not have?
It matters not if it was a shroud or pieces of cloth that was on Jesus! ITS NOT THE CLOTH! Its who was under those wraps that count Mikeuk!
Why Mikeuk do you have your eyes on the physical things and not on Jesus?
We are to Worship the Creator, not on the created!
The whole story is how Jesus Christ died FOR OUR SINS, not on how He was buried!
This is why Mikeuk you are not a True Christian following Jesus Christ. Instead you are trying to impress people with your knowledge of a stupid piece of cloth that means nothing to us.
When will you realize Mikeuk that its God that is our focus in life, not on relics!
Its why Jesus Died that is our focus. Our focus is not on how He was buried. Its the fact that Jesus arose from the dead after 3 days that is our focus. Not on how He was buried. If Jesus had been buried in a coffin it would not have made any difference. He would have still arose after 3 days.
This is why God removed His Children from the Catholic Church.
Jesus Christ died for our sins! Rejoice Mikeuk! Its God that matters, not a piece of cloth!
What exactly are you trying to prove with that piece of cloth? Is your PRIDE of being a Catholic that great that you focus on a piece of material and ignore what Jesus Christ did for you? Are you trying to prove you are a greater Christian then others because you have some secret knowledge we do not have?
It matters not if it was a shroud or pieces of cloth that was on Jesus! ITS NOT THE CLOTH! Its who was under those wraps that count Mikeuk!
Why Mikeuk do you have your eyes on the physical things and not on Jesus?
We are to Worship the Creator, not on the created!
The whole story is how Jesus Christ died FOR OUR SINS, not on how He was buried!
This is why Mikeuk you are not a True Christian following Jesus Christ. Instead you are trying to impress people with your knowledge of a stupid piece of cloth that means nothing to us.
When will you realize Mikeuk that its God that is our focus in life, not on relics!
Its why Jesus Died that is our focus. Our focus is not on how He was buried. Its the fact that Jesus arose from the dead after 3 days that is our focus. Not on how He was buried. If Jesus had been buried in a coffin it would not have made any difference. He would have still arose after 3 days.
This is why God removed His Children from the Catholic Church.
That's good I won't have to put up with all your nonsense. I knew you wouldn't be able to face the facts.
Although the artist did try to reproduce images that might have touched a crucified body and left a mark, the two images are not even simultaneous representations of the same body. This can be seen from the arms as they are shown in the early depictions. If you lie on the ground and place your elbows in the same position as those on the back image of the Shroud, you can quickly see that it is impossible to hold the position of the crossed arms in the front. There is a difference of seven centimetres between the lengths of the two bodies. Then again the heads do not meet, suggesting that this was not a cloth that was ever folded over an actual head. A cloth laid on a body would pick up its contours, but there is no sign of this. Again, the hair of the body would have fallen back if the figure had been lying down but the blood is as if it is trickling down the hair of a standing figure.
Although the artist did try to reproduce images that might have touched a crucified body and left a mark, the two images are not even simultaneous representations of the same body. This can be seen from the arms as they are shown in the early depictions. If you lie on the ground and place your elbows in the same position as those on the back image of the Shroud, you can quickly see that it is impossible to hold the position of the crossed arms in the front. There is a difference of seven centimetres between the lengths of the two bodies. Then again the heads do not meet, suggesting that this was not a cloth that was ever folded over an actual head. A cloth laid on a body would pick up its contours, but there is no sign of this. Again, the hair of the body would have fallen back if the figure had been lying down but the blood is as if it is trickling down the hair of a standing figure.
trust JESUS. trust JESUS - and go to JESUS for help in time of need. and go to the FATHER IN HEAVEN through and by JESUS for grace to help in time of need......
anyone who went to mary, was told by mary to go to JESUS. (when she was alive and conscious on earth among people).
JESUS ONLY. not thru paul. not thru peter. not thru mary..... not one of those or any other can help.
GO STRAIGHT TO THE THRONE OF GRACE -- all horrible sinners are welcome there. (but if they trust demons in the rcc, they will be cast out).
receive forgiveness from the FATHER through YAHSHUA(JESUS). there is NO OTHER WAY.
anyone who went to mary, was told by mary to go to JESUS. (when she was alive and conscious on earth among people).
JESUS ONLY. not thru paul. not thru peter. not thru mary..... not one of those or any other can help.
GO STRAIGHT TO THE THRONE OF GRACE -- all horrible sinners are welcome there. (but if they trust demons in the rcc, they will be cast out).
receive forgiveness from the FATHER through YAHSHUA(JESUS). there is NO OTHER WAY.
We are to focus upon God and what He has done for us to allow us to enter into Heaven with Him.
We are not to be sidetrack by the Catholics into debating with them about how Jesus was buried.
We are to bring to the Catholics the Truth that Jesus Christ was born to be a sinless sacrifice for our sins. That He died on the Cross for ALL the sins of the World. That He was buried. ( It does not matter how He was buried). That He arose from the grave after 3 days. That He walked on this Earth for 40 days and then was taken up into Heaven to prepare a place for those who are His True sheep.
Anything outside of that is a waste of time with the Catholics.
Until the Catholics return to God we need to treat them as people who do not have God and witness to them about the Love God has for them. How God died for their sins also. How they can enter into Heaven along with us True Children of God.
I agree with Mike, arguing over a piece of cloth is ridiculous. We should not lower ourselves to their level.
We are not to be sidetrack by the Catholics into debating with them about how Jesus was buried.
We are to bring to the Catholics the Truth that Jesus Christ was born to be a sinless sacrifice for our sins. That He died on the Cross for ALL the sins of the World. That He was buried. ( It does not matter how He was buried). That He arose from the grave after 3 days. That He walked on this Earth for 40 days and then was taken up into Heaven to prepare a place for those who are His True sheep.
Anything outside of that is a waste of time with the Catholics.
Until the Catholics return to God we need to treat them as people who do not have God and witness to them about the Love God has for them. How God died for their sins also. How they can enter into Heaven along with us True Children of God.
I agree with Mike, arguing over a piece of cloth is ridiculous. We should not lower ourselves to their level.
J
Debating generally. The fact is, you can't debate with a Catholic on theological grounds. It's a rabbit hole, a circle. They have walls of books, that screw up everything imaginable in theology. They have this Pandora's box they opened of testifying to themselves and their own, self-appointed authority, which they based on very faulty scripture exegesis, so faulty as to comprise an excuse to form the world's largest Christian cult. Their Popes are like a whole, long line of Ellen Whites or Joseph Smiths. From there, they can paint themselves clean into a corner, in terms of God's word, that falls off into hell, and you know what it will all come down to? It's so, because the Pope says so. They can invent man made religion, of no basis in spiritual reality and of no real authority from God, ad infinitum. It's like arguing with a novel writer he can't have this or that character, or event, in his fiction. It's not worthwhile to debate anything. Exposing the corruption and lies is about all you can do, of purported Christians who don't really accept the finality of the word of God.