Catholics

[atwhatcost]

How does Mary point one to Jesus? And also why do some Pray to her? Is she not a regular human like the rest of us? I'm only asking to try to understand

​This will go back to my quicksand analogy. Most is hidden, but the affects are still felt. A Catolic will come bakc with, "We don't pray to Mary. We ask her to intercede for us."

Here's the reality,
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

Hello? Is the mother of God anything other than a god above gods? Was Mary holy? (Perfect. Sinless. Hallowed.) By what right does she pray for sinners? Because she's sinless?

They'll tell you they're asking for her to intercede. Really? Didn't Jesus show us in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, people don't have access to this world after they die? Didn't he tell us heaven is a place to worship God? Then why is Mary stuck (supposedly) listening to sinner's prayers to give them a boost up to heaven? How is that not praying to another god?

Much beneath the surface.

 

[passing_through]

John Calvin was a big proponent of Infant Baptism, there was a Spaniard who taught against it and Calvin had him burned at the stake.

On another point, and I feel like I am shying away from saying this because of my vehement opposition of Catholicism, but it is true, I love Catholics as all blood washed should too. We must separate error from the person in error and love them as Jesus does.

 

[atwhatcost]

Grace alone through FAITH ALONE?

Sure. The problem are in "faith in what?" and "grace from whom for what?"

 

[notuptome]

With respect the timeline for NT and OT are different.
NT evolved, as even jason ( sola scriptura advocate) notes there was indeed oral and written both parts of dei verbum, but he conjectures all of that was subsumed in the written eventually, but that rather ignores that some of what is tradition does not add to scripture but interprets it. As I contended with ignatiius/ Smyrna, or for example didache on baptism rite.

The apostles preached Christ from the OT scriptures and from first hand accounts of their time with Christ. They would have taken the Jewish traditions and shown from them the Lord Jesus Christ slain for their sin and resurrected for their victory over death and hell.

The gospel sets at liberty those who have been enslaved by sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[atwhatcost]

Its Mary on steriods

That's not Mary. Mary did the same thing all born-again Christians do and quite a few OT Jews -- she trusted in God for her salvation. She knew who Jesus was. That's some very heavy-duty trusting of God. I have no doubt Mary is saved. It's the Catholic version of her I have big problems with.

 

[DesiredHaven]

That's not Mary. Mary did the same thing all born-again Christians do and quite a few OT Jews -- she trusted in God for her salvation. She knew who Jesus was. That's some very heavy-duty trusting of God. I have no doubt Mary is saved. It's the Catholic version of her I have big problems with.

Its their Mary on steriods, the catholic version.
Meaning their doctrine of Mary.

That which is injected into Mary by them to make her bigger then what the apostles ever did.

 

[atwhatcost]

Where would I go online to learn the Catholics main doctrines and beliefs?

This is interesting. I've been online since 1994. I was in a Christian chat room on AOL, and someone else asked, so I yahooed it. (No Google back then. Yahoo was different, but it was still better then Alta Vista and other search engines of the time.) I found it. It was written like a law book. I remember looking up their latest ruling (that's when they ruled that homosexuality was still sin, but they couldn't help themselves, so let's just not worry about that), and it was in Section Something-another, Roman numeral something-another, and a number for where it was.

I just tried looking it up again, and can't find it. It is very much like what happened to the articles I was reading back then about a new change in treating homosexuals, back when shrinks were debating if it was a disorder or a newly-considered concept -- "they were born that way." I know I read such articles back then, but you'd be hard pressed to find them now.

When a group has an agenda, they work at hiding the past. They've done that with quite a few things online anymore (including there is no gay agenda, when clearly there is.)

The doctrine of the Catholic Church really does exist in book form. It's much like the findings of the American Congress -- clear explanations of every little thing Congress debated and resolved that day, right down to recognizing certain people on certain days. (My grandfather was recognized by Congress as an important figure to the Pennsylvania Railroad, so he is in the Congressional record, if I could find it and was willing to search through it that hard. lol)

So, if you're truly interested, you might well just call a rectory and ask. Or, even ask your friend, who is Catholic, to ask her priest. All you need is a name to the records (and the American Congress has only been around for 250ish years. The Catholic doctrine is much, MUCH older, therefore much, MUCH longer. lol) And it is organized along with basic tenant of that religion. Think something that makes the fattest encyclopedia look like a short story, but it is attainable. You'll just have a dickens of a time finding it online, because it's better to hide it.

Much, much more information is on the Internet now than there was in 1994, however, a lot of it is junk and smoke screens to avoid the truth. The Catholic doctrine is truly a worthwhile read to see the history of a church. I'm not saying all they believe is hogwash either. (Already said I understand infant baptism. I also think it was sweet to institute fish-on-Friday to revive a languishing industry.) It does show the history of Man since the 3rd or 4th century in long form.

 

[atwhatcost]

There are two possibilities. You either need to cultivate some veracity, or learn your cult, before speaking on it,

"Therefore the blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." p.252, # 969

"Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things." p. 252, # 966

Ah, Blain. Nevermind. JesusisAll knows the book. That's how it's set up. (And this is what happens because I respond as I go along. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

When the truth of God is the issue, please speak for yourself. Maybe you guys can PM kumbaya?

This isn't Mike's thread. It's Blain's. There is this sticky thread on the top of this forum, where you are free to keep the "Catholic is heresy" debate going forever, but that's not what this is about. Blain asked for clarification of what Catholics believe. You guys are clearly more into arguing with a wall than respecting the intent of the question. Blain is simply trying to figure out what a friend believes and how it's different. That's a shorter answer, if the arguing isn't encouraged on this thread.

(I'm not saying don't argue. I'm saying you guys are making it harder for Blain to learn because of the eternal argument sidelining his question.)

 

[pwrnJC]

Anything, any organization, any government, any social club, any congregation made of human beings will be just that..totally human, totally planned to a minimum level, totally 'on a trial by trial basis", and full of fault. Point me to the perfect STATE or International agency please...oops..I see no fingers pointing. Show me the perfect schoolhouse with perfect staff...uh, I"M still waiting. Show me the perfect denominational church...why am I hearing NOTHING?
When HIS Super touches our Natural....only then will we see any perfection. When JESUS is involved in the mix, only then we will begin to see eternal value. This is not just someone declaring heresy on catholicism, this is mankind living in a doomed world who's only escape is to have a daily relationship with it's CREATOR, accepting the only begotten SON of that Creator. Do we really have to live the rest of our lives bashing the imperfections around us? Why not live, walk, speak and reflect the answer, found in JESUS CHRIST to those we so easily put down. We would be so busy that posting our oppositions to catholicism would be extinct. In it's place would be praise, uplifting JESUS CHRIST, encouragment, testimonies and much more.

 

[atwhatcost]

Which of the 30,000 Protestant denominations is the true church of God?

​I caught the humor. Just a few pages go there were only 10,000 protestant churches. lol

 

[MarcR]

So I have heard it said that Catholics beliefs are heresy and that they are not saved, now i do agree their beliefs are wrong but I have never felt they were not saved. I always felt like they were family just a different branch with different ideas because I have always believed God looks at the heart of a person. It may be true that many of them aren't saved it may be true that their beliefs and doctrines are heresy I don't know I am not a bible scholar but I do know this- There are some catholics I have met that are different than the average Catholic.

For instance there is one I am talking too she and I have a very similar relationship with God one with intimacy and a deep love and hunger one where we desire to see with his eyes and his alone to love all others as he does and to take on his very spirit and divine nature. I told her nothing about my relationship with him what he and I talk about what I desire in him more than anything but she told me hers and I was shocked as many of the things she spoke of was in my heart and my relationship with him as well. The love she expressed for him the deep hunger and passion for him she showed confirmed to me she was indeed saved. I admit her beliefs about mary bug me a little but she was proof that all this catholic bashing and saying they weren't saved was wrong.

I am sure this will not be pretty but I am posting this because I think we need to really think about who we call unsaved

Blain,

There may indeed be saved believers within the Catholic Church. If a Catholic trusts in Jesus alone [not Mary or the saints nor a priest] for his / her salvation they are indeed saved. The catholic church does not promote such belief; and if it exists within the Catholic Church, it is rare.

 

[atwhatcost]

Sorry, I did research the fellow and found his life to be impeccable.

​Besides the bisexuality and the trying to change the Bible to what he wanted part? (And the scholars were diligent enough not to give him what he wanted, but that's God, not James.) Interesting concept of impeccable.

 

[atwhatcost]

Oh, it is so wrong, the infant has not the capability of contrition or repentance.

​Nor did the infant who had his foreskin removed.

 

[passing_through]

​Besides the bisexuality and the trying to change the Bible to what he wanted part? (And the scholars were diligent enough not to give him what he wanted, but that's God, not James.) Interesting concept of impeccable.

So what are you saying about the King James translation - it's tainted?

 

[atwhatcost]

So what are you saying about the King James translation - it's tainted?

I covered that. King James was no saint. (Covered that too.)

 

[passing_through]

I covered that. King James was no saint. (Covered that too.)

Catholics still attack him.

 

[weakness]

I don't really know where to start ??? My own personal experience, I was in a catholic building once to Play guitar because it echoed so nice. I knew some catholics. For a while I was so anti catholic, then not so much. I guess I am concerned about my own walk, and others. As far as protestant, they are so numerously unscriptural, even on here I have heard more false doctrine than could be invented in Catholicism. It is true from the first heresy has been around Seems like it was almost was ordained that they went out from us so as to be manifest they were not of us. Really I wouldn't know where to send a new soul except Jesus. You know Democracy was worshiped as a Goddess in times past.The whole world lies in sin and the prince of this world is its head.Will there be any faith on earth?? Just a remnant??Thousands of denominations , Can't any body see how really bad it is? We all have our pet groups. All of them. the baptist slavers killers ,Inquisitions wars, covetousness which is idolatry. All thats In the world the lust of the flesh ,lust of the eyes ,pride of life.....Denominational ,non-d It is insane and rightly so.Love the lord with all your heart.We all look at the splinter and not the beam, which is typical self deceit,common to fallen man. Why are we all so self righteous?And don't trust in God's love for us as imperfect or not mature? Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. Forgive us as we forgive others. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies.I guess sometimes I am just of low esteem and have to put down others to make myself feel more righteous. God don't play those Games. Born again is the only way out. God I love you.Be simple concerning evil. wise as serpents and harmless as doves. This is a pretty loose post can't seem to concentrate. forgive me. I just got out of the hospital and am almost dead,( for real)I don't know how long. Praise God he is so faithful and comforts those in tribulation.Lets care and strengthen one another, time is so short

 

[passing_through]

I don't really know where to start ??? My own personal experience, I was in a catholic building once to Play guitar because it echoed so nice. I knew some catholics. For a while I was so anti catholic, then not so much. I guess I am concerned about my own walk, and others. As far as protestant, they are so numerously unscriptural, even on here I have heard more false doctrine than could be invented in Catholicism. It is true from the first heresy has been around Seems like it was almost was ordained that they went out from us so as to be manifest they were not of us. Really I wouldn't know where to send a new soul except Jesus. You know Democracy was worshiped as a Goddess in times past.The whole world lies in sin and the prince of this world is its head.Will there be any faith on earth?? Just a remnant??Thousands of denominations , Can't any body see how really bad it is? We all have our pet groups. All of them. the baptist slavers killers ,Inquisitions wars, covetousness which is idolatry. All thats In the world the lust of the flesh ,lust of the eyes ,pride of life.....Denominational ,non-d It is insane and rightly so.Love the lord with all your heart.We all look at the splinter and not the beam, which is typical self deceit,common to fallen man. Why are we all so self righteous?And don't trust in God's love for us as imperfect or not mature? Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. Forgive us as we forgive others. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies.I guess sometimes I am just of low esteem and have to put down others to make myself feel more righteous. God don't play those Games. Born again is the only way out. God I love you.Be simple concerning evil. wise as serpents and harmless as doves. This is a pretty loose post can't seem to concentrate. forgive me. I just got out of the hospital and am almost dead,( for real)I don't know how long. Praise God he is so faithful and comforts those in tribulation.Lets care and strengthen one another, time is so short

You left out the numerous Anabaptists that were killed by the RCC.

 

[AngelFrog]

There is no credible evidence to support the purported rumors slandering King James.