The curse of the law
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There are two things the Word tells us the law did by arriving...one is it showed the Holiness of God. It is a Law that God has ordained and found perfect. Ok, that was easy.
Now step two, as it was given, we were without it before we had it right?!! Duh! So I have compared it to a tennis game.
Let's say we go and watch a tennis game, we call it that anyway..and we watch as two people hit balls anyway they feel led. score on the bases of whatever they feel is right to score by, and at the end both think they have won, because they both had separate rules to the Game. The crowd may have been amused but rather confused.
So now jumps in the Holy Laws. Or the rules to the game of tennis in my example, based on God's perspective the wise perspective.. Now we have a distinct winner and loser to the game. Now some that had worked hard at their own rules hate the new ones because it isn't theirs. So they fight the new ones. But some like the new rules and like the rule giver. So they follow it to win the game.
But , alas, they never get to win the game. even tho they played by the Holy rules they still always lost, because they couldn't succeed at the rules all the time.. They ask what's the point of this game if one can never win it? Then God jumps in and says to them, "AhA! you now get it, trying to follow the rules under your current state of being won't get it done!" "You have gotten the point correctly!"...
now here is the answer to the entire problem of not being able to win, "You all suck so bad at this game I have not seen even one able to play it well enough to win, but I will tell you something, come close, I already knew that before I gave you the rules, You see this guy Adam was the first player of the game and I saw he decided to not follow the rules. And I realized he was such a bad player I would have to change the whole way this guy and people like him would be able to win the game. So I have chosen one that is capable of not only playing the game within the rules, but winning the game every time He plays it. In fact the opponent and I have agreed to play one game to represent all of you, what the opponent doesn't realize is how much it will cost him to lose that game for himself... So I have had Jesus represent all of you in this one game to win the game. And I will endorse him."
So then History tells us of the game of tennis that is not even close in comparison to the real battle against Satan but I have to stay in character because I started this dumb example...smile...So the cross becomes the end game for us all now we can never re play the game to win, for we are unable to win. But we can always win the game as we exercise our right to be apart of the winning side and winning experience as God no longer sees the crude player in us but the great player in Christ, for this is how he sees us now. because God goes on to say that .."God has given us eternal life and this life is in His son; he who has the son has life." But of coarse if only Christ is seen anyone outside of Him then loses or pays the cost of that first terrible player Adam that we are just as bad as. Hell is for those that just don't accept the perfect plan of Salvation.
so we can put the rackets down now it's over. The only thing we have to do now is live it out. self and Satan are our only nemesis.Yet, the Master liar has a force we have seen in our own lives. And even in these forums, subtlety is a strong diverter.
The curse is where we once thought ourselves to be worthy from sins fate of death...now has a definite guideline of failure and success. cursing us in our old-Self's Spirit....that leads to death.. It is the realization of that condition. But the curse has an answer. The best one money can't buy! Jesus Christ's victory on the cross. An all-inclusive victory over sin and death. Free . Satan wants us all to think it is too good to be true. He's a liar!
I admire your prowess slave, and I agree that the tennis game is a little off as you do. The rules of the law are not comparable to a game of winning or losing. Not only that, the rules that first came were to Israel were accepted cause they said they would abide by it. It didn't work, but it wasn't God's fault for making up messed up rules that one day wouldn't be binding and the game would be different than the first accordingly. The rules haven't change, same as God hasn't changed.
If we do attempt to bring a parable to the table concerning a game, the coach is the same as the previous coach, being that Jesus followed His Father's rules of the "game" to the detail. Therefore the rules never changed, but we still have losers who cannot abide by the rules. In fact no one can perfectly abide by the rules except the coach who will make the judgment of who wins and loses. When the coach says we lose, we will say "curses are on me." When the coach says we are winners we will say "I am blessed." The rules stay, and the Savior from the curse still reigns.
"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" Romans 2:12
Blessings of the law are a substantial part of the law of liberty. Thank God He looks at the heart instead of the carnal flesh.
"But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7
If we do attempt to bring a parable to the table concerning a game, the coach is the same as the previous coach, being that Jesus followed His Father's rules of the "game" to the detail. Therefore the rules never changed, but we still have losers who cannot abide by the rules. In fact no one can perfectly abide by the rules except the coach who will make the judgment of who wins and loses. When the coach says we lose, we will say "curses are on me." When the coach says we are winners we will say "I am blessed." The rules stay, and the Savior from the curse still reigns.
"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" Romans 2:12
Blessings of the law are a substantial part of the law of liberty. Thank God He looks at the heart instead of the carnal flesh.
"But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7
That would be Gentiles who are judged by the natural law of their conscience.
That would be Israel.
And according to the above standards, no one is righteous, Jew or Gentile.
"The Law" can mean the Pentateuch, or the Psalms (Jn 10:34) or all the Scriptures (Jn 12:34),
and the "law of liberty" would be all the word of God, into which the born again look with delight,
and to which their obedience of faith readily submits.
The "law of liberty" is the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), the law on which all the Scriptures
(the Law and the Prophets) hang (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Gal 5:14), the royal law (Jas 2:8),
the "law of freedom" (2Co 3:17).
The "law of liberty" is the means of sanctification by the work of the Holy Spirit,
but never the means of salvation.
Faith by God's completely unmerited favor--grace is the only means of salvation.
And keeping in mind, all the promises of blessing are now shut up in Christ (2Co 1:20),
none are in law-keeping.
Agreed?
That would be Israel.
And according to the above standards, no one is righteous, Jew or Gentile.
"The Law" can mean the Pentateuch, or the Psalms (Jn 10:34) or all the Scriptures (Jn 12:34),
and the "law of liberty" would be all the word of God, into which the born again look with delight,
and to which their obedience of faith readily submits.
The "law of liberty" is the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), the law on which all the Scriptures
(the Law and the Prophets) hang (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Gal 5:14), the royal law (Jas 2:8),
the "law of freedom" (2Co 3:17).
The "law of liberty" is the means of sanctification by the work of the Holy Spirit,
but never the means of salvation.
Faith by God's completely unmerited favor--grace is the only means of salvation.
And keeping in mind, all the promises of blessing are now shut up in Christ (2Co 1:20),
none are in law-keeping.
Agreed?
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Here's my not so quick answer: The measurement of a man's victory is not measured by the blessings God has given man, For God says Jesus came to serve men, He blesses even the sinner, and in many instances especially the sinner.....Let me ask you a question and follow it up with a statement...First the question: Do all men receive peace when they receive blessings?...now the statement:
I remember the last 13 years of my marriage of the 29 total, I was a sold out Christian found in Christ the first 15, but then I had succumb to the tyranny of the urgent temptations of my life and with the help of my own Jezebel experience I took God off the mantle piece of my life and simply attempted then to hang on to God. I practiced His principles, but I had lost peace I started having issues with my understanding of things in my life as well, my demeanor changed from when I was sold out prior, I became powerless in my prayers for others, I tithed but my heart wasn't joyful in it. I became sullen in my victory because I couldn't get 1John 5:11-12 out of my mind, "This is the testimony: God has given us Eternal life and this life is in His son. He who has the son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." So ashamed I sulked, for I knew I could not merit His rewards and blessings and I was in fear of Hell fire. I had taken back the first fruits of my heart and I was too weak to put Him back, Satan had me believe. Yet in all of this God had still blessed me, house job etc..
There is also something called an Axiom , or Axiomatic truth, or self-evident truth. God has placed these truths in our lives. Regardless of whether you are a Christian or non-Christian, Jew or Gentile, man or Woman, black or white, they are truths that will result in the same conclusion in all. Regardless of your belief in them or denial of them they hold themselves to be self evident.
Gravity is one. Try this; wish really hard, and deny the laws of gravity then throw a ball in the air and watch it fall back to your hand anyway. Now I am not saying supernatural powers can't alter some Axioms but they don't alter the truth behind them they stay true to the axiom truth of supernaturalism, which oversees the other.
Here is another Axiomatic truth, "What a man sows so shall he reap." When a man follows the Torah, blessings are sure to happen based on the truths in the purity of the laws themselves, but the man using them is not saved by these blessings being evident, he is saved by a new plan over the plan of the Torahs followings. The plan found on the cross. What is a mark of Victory in our lives is not the blessings but the fruit, the scripture tells us. The change in the nature of the person themselves. The change that can only happen successfully in Christ.
So Jesus doesn't want us to follow the Torah, but again this all hangs on what you mean by follow.
In Matt. 5:17-20...,Jesus makes an astounding claim. He came to not abolish, but fulfill the Law. The Prophets and Torah were but sketches of God's will. And He Himself will now be and teach us it's fullness. We are summoned to follow Jesus, not the Torah. In so doing we do everything the Torah set out to do, but even more. The life lived in victory found in Christ Jesus is the life of the new and improved Torah life. The more than conquering life.
It is the fruits we are to notice of our lives, what are they? There are two different lists...one for one Spirit of light, and one list for the Spirit of death. One cannot serve two masters.
I remember the last 13 years of my marriage of the 29 total, I was a sold out Christian found in Christ the first 15, but then I had succumb to the tyranny of the urgent temptations of my life and with the help of my own Jezebel experience I took God off the mantle piece of my life and simply attempted then to hang on to God. I practiced His principles, but I had lost peace I started having issues with my understanding of things in my life as well, my demeanor changed from when I was sold out prior, I became powerless in my prayers for others, I tithed but my heart wasn't joyful in it. I became sullen in my victory because I couldn't get 1John 5:11-12 out of my mind, "This is the testimony: God has given us Eternal life and this life is in His son. He who has the son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." So ashamed I sulked, for I knew I could not merit His rewards and blessings and I was in fear of Hell fire. I had taken back the first fruits of my heart and I was too weak to put Him back, Satan had me believe. Yet in all of this God had still blessed me, house job etc..
There is also something called an Axiom , or Axiomatic truth, or self-evident truth. God has placed these truths in our lives. Regardless of whether you are a Christian or non-Christian, Jew or Gentile, man or Woman, black or white, they are truths that will result in the same conclusion in all. Regardless of your belief in them or denial of them they hold themselves to be self evident.
Gravity is one. Try this; wish really hard, and deny the laws of gravity then throw a ball in the air and watch it fall back to your hand anyway. Now I am not saying supernatural powers can't alter some Axioms but they don't alter the truth behind them they stay true to the axiom truth of supernaturalism, which oversees the other.
Here is another Axiomatic truth, "What a man sows so shall he reap." When a man follows the Torah, blessings are sure to happen based on the truths in the purity of the laws themselves, but the man using them is not saved by these blessings being evident, he is saved by a new plan over the plan of the Torahs followings. The plan found on the cross. What is a mark of Victory in our lives is not the blessings but the fruit, the scripture tells us. The change in the nature of the person themselves. The change that can only happen successfully in Christ.
So Jesus doesn't want us to follow the Torah, but again this all hangs on what you mean by follow.
In Matt. 5:17-20...,Jesus makes an astounding claim. He came to not abolish, but fulfill the Law. The Prophets and Torah were but sketches of God's will. And He Himself will now be and teach us it's fullness. We are summoned to follow Jesus, not the Torah. In so doing we do everything the Torah set out to do, but even more. The life lived in victory found in Christ Jesus is the life of the new and improved Torah life. The more than conquering life.
It is the fruits we are to notice of our lives, what are they? There are two different lists...one for one Spirit of light, and one list for the Spirit of death. One cannot serve two masters.
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Why does this shock you? People have shared with you scripture outlining the victory over sin. Yet, you say ...."but we still have losers who cannot abide by the rules.
Yes we do, but is isn't them. It's never going to be them, them is dead Jesus tells us. It is Christ found in the Spirit connected to our soul by our will and His effort. making the them or us a NEW MAN, or BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN! Only Jesus was the sinless one that gained victory, we were and are unable no matter how much you do anything....ever, able to be sinless due to the Adam exchange. What does; "found dead in our sins and transgressions".. mean to you? What dead thing do you know of that can be fixed up?
I shutter to think what I would do if I had to sleep at night, not sure if, when judgement came, i did enough to pass the Almighty in the judgement evaluations day. Will I or won't I?? Hmmmm ..Hmmm, sweat, chattering of teeth, knees shacking, fear ensues etc..Not my life! I am completely calm. Not to the point I don't run the race to win it...for the chapters of my life have to finish being played out, but I am as guaranteed as a costco return into the kingdom of the Most High. And get this By way of His own mouth. That's His prowess not mine, for I am nothing, dead , right along with all of the other people who have victory found in Christ.. For to lose it all I gained it all.
There is the thread entry even above this one of 1 John 5:11-12, but there is others that say If I remain in Him, that's the running the race to win part, and His Words remain in me, I have it. It's mine! If I seek with all my heart and mind and body, that's the running the race to win it, again, I am in..... I tell you the truth whoever hears my Word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24. I'm in...I sleep well, actually I need a new bed it's been 22 yrs since I bought a new one, maybe Costcos has a good one, you can't beat their return policies.
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B
I kind of see what you were saying, but 1 problem. If Yeshua says not to follow Torah that would make Him a false prophet, because He would not be following what He was fulfilling. So I would disagree with that statement because I do not believe Yeshua is a false prophet (and I would assume you do not believe He is a false prophet either).
Also my question wasn't in reguarding whether it is ok or not ok, and it wasn't to state following Torah is to esteem someone over someone else.
It was basically, why are the blessings still there (But in different wording)?
I would assume that if Torah was completely done away with, the blessings of it would be gone as well.
Also I do believe there is added blessing outside of Torah observance. Technically Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob didn't have the Torah, yet God still blessed them through faith and obedience. Which overall that's what it comes down to: one person's heart in their faith and obedience. If there is not great in it there's no blessings, if there is heart in it there is blessing.
Along with that anyone who follows the ten commandments or the 2 greatest commandments (love the Lord with all your heart, and love your neighbor), that is still followinh Torah (because that's where they came from), therefore there would still be Torah blessings from that.
And I again I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong, or vise versa.
Also my question wasn't in reguarding whether it is ok or not ok, and it wasn't to state following Torah is to esteem someone over someone else.
It was basically, why are the blessings still there (But in different wording)?
I would assume that if Torah was completely done away with, the blessings of it would be gone as well.
Also I do believe there is added blessing outside of Torah observance. Technically Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob didn't have the Torah, yet God still blessed them through faith and obedience. Which overall that's what it comes down to: one person's heart in their faith and obedience. If there is not great in it there's no blessings, if there is heart in it there is blessing.
Along with that anyone who follows the ten commandments or the 2 greatest commandments (love the Lord with all your heart, and love your neighbor), that is still followinh Torah (because that's where they came from), therefore there would still be Torah blessings from that.
And I again I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong, or vise versa.
Where in the NT does it say that there is still blessing in Torah observance?
Where in the NT does it say what these blessings are?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
How can a person be Torah observant but not work at the law?
Where in the NT does it say what these blessings are?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
How can a person be Torah observant but not work at the law?
B
I've witnessed to seeing blessings in Torah observance. I know a farmer who started farming his corps according to Torah on how to farm (because he had faith and obedience, and decided that it was the correct/right thing to do as far as being faithful and obedient). His crops flourished big time compared to what it was in previous years. Why did it flourish when he started doing that? That's just one of many examples of I've seen happen.
Yeshua and the apostles were constantly quoting Torah and the prophets. If they were quoting the Torah and prophets, then why is it void? If it's void, why did Paul say to uphold it? If it's void, why is homosexuality and bestiality wrong? If it's void why is looking to a medium or psychic wrong? If it's void why are the 2 greatest commandments quoted from Torah?
Following Torah is different than being under the law.
Following Torah is seeing Yeshua in it and following it through faith and obedience to Yeshua.
Being under the law is following it as a means of salvation. Which should not be done because salvation is through faith and obedience to Yeshua.
Yeshua and the apostles were constantly quoting Torah and the prophets. If they were quoting the Torah and prophets, then why is it void? If it's void, why did Paul say to uphold it? If it's void, why is homosexuality and bestiality wrong? If it's void why is looking to a medium or psychic wrong? If it's void why are the 2 greatest commandments quoted from Torah?
Following Torah is different than being under the law.
Following Torah is seeing Yeshua in it and following it through faith and obedience to Yeshua.
Being under the law is following it as a means of salvation. Which should not be done because salvation is through faith and obedience to Yeshua.
Love is a summary of the law's requirements. So then, a motivational approach to ethics — like the normative approach — declares the current validity of God's law. Finally, the consequential approach to ethics evaluates actions and attitudes according to their beneficial results or comparative lack thereof. Christ teaches us in His word that the primary goal of our moral behavior is the kingdom of God; when we make it that, every temporal and eternal blessing will be ours. The righteousness of this kingdom is defined by the law of the King, and thus Scripture promises that obedience to the law of God will eventuate in outstanding blessings for our selves, our neighbors, and our society. In short, the law of God was revealed for our good. Therefore, the validity of God's law has been substantiated in previous studies by the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith and by all of the major perspectives on ethics. The present authority of the Lord's commandments is inescapable of any honest reading of God's word.
God’s earthly blessings were dependent upon Israel’s obedience to His Law. If His people forsook the Law, then earthly cursings were promised:
The law itself is not a curse. The law by itself isn't a blessing either. The blessings and cursings, defined as consequences, are exacted according to the peoples reaction for or against it. Do the blessings of the law mean salvation is ours through obedience to the law? No, because salvation unto eternal life cannot be attained by human capability. Nevertheless, our obedience to the Spiritual persuasion of the law (after we are saved from eternal death) shows our love for the One who gave it, not by works, but by seeing the personage behind the One who gave it. We love God because He is attractive to us.
God’s earthly blessings were dependent upon Israel’s obedience to His Law. If His people forsook the Law, then earthly cursings were promised:
The law itself is not a curse. The law by itself isn't a blessing either. The blessings and cursings, defined as consequences, are exacted according to the peoples reaction for or against it. Do the blessings of the law mean salvation is ours through obedience to the law? No, because salvation unto eternal life cannot be attained by human capability. Nevertheless, our obedience to the Spiritual persuasion of the law (after we are saved from eternal death) shows our love for the One who gave it, not by works, but by seeing the personage behind the One who gave it. We love God because He is attractive to us.
God tells me that the Laws of Moses are Holy, pure and worthy to be around for longer than I can comprehend. He says not a stroke of the pen will be erased of it's value and efficacy, The Law itself is indeed not a curse I agree. But to live by the Law as the plan to heaven has now been deemed a curse by the giving of the Law itself, in the inherent nature of it's conclusion found in us.. For as I tried to illustrate; it has changed the merits of mans attempts and claimed sins boundaries. The new issued decree let's us see the totality of our old self's demise, and futility.
After graciously allowing us to see the merits of this conclusion over a introduction to the glimpse of Gods will, God sent in the closing argument to change. A change Satan hadn't even banked on in the sacrifice it meant must happen. The following of the laws for Salvation was cursed and replaced with the victory of death. Oh death where is your victory, where is your sting?!! The death of Adam traded for the life in Christ only.
The issue isn't about the Laws curse or not curse. It is about the way to the Father. Blessings do come from the Law, it is Holy. But not enough to cross that bridge from hell's final destiny, to Heaven. This is the issue, we all are trying to secure.... And the cross is the answer, not by trying to build up or tear down the Law. It has been rendered meaningless to the ultimate goal. I except the Holy Laws as Gods, and in them there is much blessing. But not by me doing them at all. Only Him who died for my sins on a slab of wood with blood drenched body parts that could hardly be recognized as human. Let's not forget that part either. And let's not pity it. For God counted the cost and so did Jesus, and offered it to us, let say thank you not oh, they shouldn't have killed the savior, and remain in sorrow. The one powerful enough to change the contract of death, from Adam to the new contract of life and eternal Joy..
We need to stop hounding the Law..If we were to be talking about Christ as much as the Law in here we would have people touched just simply by the name mentioned that many times.. This is something that hasn't been written much in here let me re-state some things too:
Fruits: There are many fruits that come from the life of Christ. Here are a few.....Of course Galations 5:22-23.
Love, Joy, peace, forbearance, Kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. But there are more: Following the Word of God, Prayer, Obedience Fellowship, Stewardship, humility to Christ's position of authority, The list of Characteristics I have labelled prior to this inclusion already floating in this Forum, etc..We need to be, in my opinion, soaking our eyes on these things, our minds on these things, and our hearts adopting these things.
I simply look to the prize: One day all these things of earth will be gone, as if it had never been...and when we're standing without it all, what in us will be seen? This is the question I hold to myself. For Worldly wealth or service to God even has no real value in and of itself, nor character to strive for, for we are nothing when all is revealed, if we lack the fruit of the Lord.
I'd rather have the qualities of God, the fruit of His Spirit inside, for it's His Character that will remain when we enter eternal life. So I press on to finish the work set out in me in Christ, to obtain the important things of life and tarry, no longer, for the temporal. For this is gold I can take with me!
After graciously allowing us to see the merits of this conclusion over a introduction to the glimpse of Gods will, God sent in the closing argument to change. A change Satan hadn't even banked on in the sacrifice it meant must happen. The following of the laws for Salvation was cursed and replaced with the victory of death. Oh death where is your victory, where is your sting?!! The death of Adam traded for the life in Christ only.
The issue isn't about the Laws curse or not curse. It is about the way to the Father. Blessings do come from the Law, it is Holy. But not enough to cross that bridge from hell's final destiny, to Heaven. This is the issue, we all are trying to secure.... And the cross is the answer, not by trying to build up or tear down the Law. It has been rendered meaningless to the ultimate goal. I except the Holy Laws as Gods, and in them there is much blessing. But not by me doing them at all. Only Him who died for my sins on a slab of wood with blood drenched body parts that could hardly be recognized as human. Let's not forget that part either. And let's not pity it. For God counted the cost and so did Jesus, and offered it to us, let say thank you not oh, they shouldn't have killed the savior, and remain in sorrow. The one powerful enough to change the contract of death, from Adam to the new contract of life and eternal Joy..
We need to stop hounding the Law..If we were to be talking about Christ as much as the Law in here we would have people touched just simply by the name mentioned that many times.. This is something that hasn't been written much in here let me re-state some things too:
Fruits: There are many fruits that come from the life of Christ. Here are a few.....Of course Galations 5:22-23.
Love, Joy, peace, forbearance, Kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. But there are more: Following the Word of God, Prayer, Obedience Fellowship, Stewardship, humility to Christ's position of authority, The list of Characteristics I have labelled prior to this inclusion already floating in this Forum, etc..We need to be, in my opinion, soaking our eyes on these things, our minds on these things, and our hearts adopting these things.
I simply look to the prize: One day all these things of earth will be gone, as if it had never been...and when we're standing without it all, what in us will be seen? This is the question I hold to myself. For Worldly wealth or service to God even has no real value in and of itself, nor character to strive for, for we are nothing when all is revealed, if we lack the fruit of the Lord.
I'd rather have the qualities of God, the fruit of His Spirit inside, for it's His Character that will remain when we enter eternal life. So I press on to finish the work set out in me in Christ, to obtain the important things of life and tarry, no longer, for the temporal. For this is gold I can take with me!
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