On-Again/Off-Again in my relationship with God, why is this happening?

[gb9]

That is not what John chapter 8 says. Jesus said they did the lusts of their father the devil.

Read it for yourself here:


John 8:38-39, 41-42, 44 KJV

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

try reading the WHOLE CHAPTER not just cutting and pasting the parts that back up what YOU think.

 

[psychomom]

try reading the WHOLE CHAPTER not just cutting and pasting the parts that back up what YOU think.

and the whole counsel of God?
even better.

 

[SarahM777]

and the whole counsel of God?
even better.

But,but,but if we do that we may find out that we are wrong. And we can't possibly be wrong.

 

[Michael65]

That's what Jason does not understand. We are born again - birth is permanent - we are adopted and in the Roman-Greek culture a real child could be disowned but an adopted child could NOT be disowned because they were specifically chosen. God uses language to let us know that salvation is permanent - birth and adoption.

Jason uses a lot of OT scripture and scriptures from the gospels BEFORE the new birth - and yes in the OT they could lose their salvation, in the gospels they could lose their salvation - but we are born again of the Spirit - born again with 'seed' that is imperishable, incorruptible; we are partakers of the divine nature via the gift of holy Spirit that God has given us; we are sealed and guaranteed until the day of redemption [Eph. 1:13; 2 Cor. 1:22] and you can bet when God guarantees something it is guaranteed; We are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus [Eph. 2:6]; our citizenship is in heaven [Phil. 3:20]; we are new creatures - new creations - God created in us HIS seed, HIS nature. We are members in the body of Christ and we know that each member in the body of Christ is equally important and that one cannot work without the other [1 Cor. 12:14-26].

I think Jason does understand. He understands that you can't fool God. What he might not understand is that what is truly God's can go astray without losing faith. Those in grate dispair are a good example to use. They do not lose their faith or their love. They become lost in it. I understand this very clearly. I was lost in dispair for over 7 years. I did not lose my love for God or my fellow man. I lost hope. I am renewed in that hope. There are very many who are lost in dispare. I have seen them and I have heird them. They are lost to us but not to God. I think these souls might be give some sort of reprieve. Perhaps another chance after Jesus returns to us. I don't know?

 

[Jason0047]

try reading the WHOLE CHAPTER not just cutting and pasting the parts that back up what YOU think.

Try quoting the verses you think disagrees with the verses I posted.

 

[gb9]

verses do not disagree. they complement and balance each other. YOU just pluck verses out of context. earlier, you referenced John 8, then you only posted certain verses. I said use the whole chapter, you come back saying I should post what I think disagrees??? what?????

 

[valiant]

We know Romans 7 is about the unsaved man because in Romans 7:14, Paul says he is sold under sin, but in Romans 8:2, Paul says he is free from sin. So unless you want to believe in contradictions, the only solution that makes sense is that Paul was talking from his perspective as a pre-Christian. For why on Earth does he give us the solution as being Jesus Christ at the end of Romans 7 and the beginning of Romans 8?

Only a Christian could say. 'I delight in the law of God in my inner man' (Rom 7.22). The unbeliever does not delight in the law of God. Only a believer could say, 'I as I am in myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin'.(7.25).

Thus Rom 7.14 ff is Paul's testimony as a Christian. He was aware of the continual battle between flesh and Spirit. He is not of course talking about 'simple sins' like telling lies, chasing after worldly things, being filled with hate, greed and so on. He is talking of spiritual sins like not praying enough, not serving the Lord as hard as he could (his judgment not ours), and so on. The nearer we are to God the more deeply we feel our sins and our unworthiness.

 

[valiant]

I don't understand what causes me to withdraw from God periodically.
When I say withdraw, I don't just mean that I begin to doubt his existence. I mean that I stop praying, stop feeling conviction for sin, cease contact with christian connections, and cease reading the bible. The strange part is, is that I've never during these periods doubted God's existence or soverignty. So when I do begin to feel a sense of conviction again, I pray, I come back to God and I feel terrible for what I've done, for essentially abusing God's grace.

You know, I know God is our father and he loves us more than we can comprehend, but I also know that God won't be mocked. He is sovereign.I'm almost resigned to the fear that I will someday die while in one of these "off" times of my life. I don't want to keep doing this, and I ask God to please give me the grace to stay faithful.

Yet it happens...

I know that it is sin that separates us from God, but I can't understand what sin it is that's causing this sense of separation. I am not saying that I expect to never sin. I'm not saying that at all. I know the blood of Christ continually washes us from sin, and that he is faithful. So it's not like this post is about me lying, feeling some guilt, and then apologizing. But there's a difference between unintentional sin and continued, outright disobedience, right--- am I making any sense here? (Someone save me from rambling!)

I know God will never forsake us, but I also know that we can, by our own will, separate ourselves from God by sinning and rejecting Christ. However, I don't desire separation from God. I love Him, (even though I'm terrible at showing it)-- I don't want to upset Him, and hell scares the crap out of me, but I don't want to be separated from God forever when I die.
I also believe that part of what allows us to remain faithful is the grace of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, it's only by God's grace that I'm able to desire to come to Him at all. How then can I fall so far away when I don't desire to and God does not forsake us?

I'm not trying to insinuate that God is a liar, of course, I'm just not sure what to do...

what I suggest you do is nail your colours to the mast. Get out there and start witnessing. And as you do so God will feel closer and the world farther away.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The Pharisees is John 8 were not saved. Just read the verses in my previous post and it will become obvious that those of God obey His Word and those who don't are of the devil.

Who is talking about unbelievers? WHO said anything about NOT obeying God? BUT what I am saying is that my salvation doesn't rely on works. My salvation comes through my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and believing God raised him from the dead. I AM saved. Now just like a new born baby . . . I learn to WALK and in my learning to WALK, I may err, I may fall down but I will never fall away to the point of losing my salvation for a new Spirit was BORN within me . . . IT IS INCORRUPTIBLE . . .

 

[Delivery]

I don't understand what causes me to withdraw from God periodically.
When I say withdraw, I don't just mean that I begin to doubt his existence. I mean that I stop praying, stop feeling conviction for sin, cease contact with christian connections, and cease reading the bible. The strange part is, is that I've never during these periods doubted God's existence or soverignty. So when I do begin to feel a sense of conviction again, I pray, I come back to God and I feel terrible for what I've done, for essentially abusing God's grace.

You know, I know God is our father and he loves us more than we can comprehend, but I also know that God won't be mocked. He is sovereign.I'm almost resigned to the fear that I will someday die while in one of these "off" times of my life. I don't want to keep doing this, and I ask God to please give me the grace to stay faithful.

Yet it happens...

I know that it is sin that separates us from God, but I can't understand what sin it is that's causing this sense of separation. I am not saying that I expect to never sin. I'm not saying that at all. I know the blood of Christ continually washes us from sin, and that he is faithful. So it's not like this post is about me lying, feeling some guilt, and then apologizing. But there's a difference between unintentional sin and continued, outright disobedience, right--- am I making any sense here? (Someone save me from rambling!)

I know God will never forsake us, but I also know that we can, by our own will, separate ourselves from God by sinning and rejecting Christ. However, I don't desire separation from God. I love Him, (even though I'm terrible at showing it)-- I don't want to upset Him, and hell scares the crap out of me, but I don't want to be separated from God forever when I die.
I also believe that part of what allows us to remain faithful is the grace of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, it's only by God's grace that I'm able to desire to come to Him at all. How then can I fall so far away when I don't desire to and God does not forsake us?

I'm not trying to insinuate that God is a liar, of course, I'm just not sure what to do...

You're trying too hard. Relax and let the Lord work in your life.

[SUP]28[/SUP] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

[SUP]6[/SUP] Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 

[Jason0047]

verses do not disagree. they complement and balance each other. YOU just pluck verses out of context. earlier, you referenced John 8, then you only posted certain verses. I said use the whole chapter, you come back saying I should post what I think disagrees??? what?????

Let's not be cute. You know what I mean. I read those passages plainly and clearly and you disagree with their plain written meaning. You say that I should read the whole chapter as if you have certain verses in mind that defends your viewpoint or wrong interpretation on the passages I quoted. If you believe the passages I quoted supports your viewpoint and not my viewpoint, then surely you will provide other verses so as to give the context of the verses I quote.

 

[Jason0047]

Let's not be cute. You know what I mean. I read those passages plainly and clearly and you disagree with their plain written meaning. You say that I should read the whole chapter as if you have certain verses in mind that defends your viewpoint or wrong interpretation on the passages I quoted. If you believe the passages I quoted supports your viewpoint and not my viewpoint, then surely you will provide other verses so as to give the context of the verses I quote.

If you do not provide the context of the verses to defend your interpretation of the passages I quoted, I am going to assume you have no idea what those passages (I quoted) really say.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

If you do not provide the context of the verses to defend your interpretation of the passages I quoted, I am going to assume you have no idea what those passages (I quoted) really say.

are you answering your own questions now?

 

[Michael65]

what I suggest you do is nail your colours to the mast. Get out there and start witnessing. And as you do so God will feel closer and the world farther away.

I see you have fully learned and understand how to be the perfect example of God's love,forgiveness, and encouragement. Nice job!!!!

 

[Jason0047]

Who is talking about unbelievers? WHO said anything about NOT obeying God? BUT what I am saying is that my salvation doesn't rely on works. My salvation comes through my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and believing God raised him from the dead. I AM saved. Now just like a new born baby . . . I learn to WALK and in my learning to WALK, I may err, I may fall down but I will never fall away to the point of losing my salvation for a new Spirit was BORN within me . . . IT IS INCORRUPTIBLE . . .

Your right! Salvation does not rely on your works. Salvation relies upon God doing His good work within you. Christ (God) is the source of one's salvation (1 John 5:12). For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. So if Christ lives in a person, then good fruit will naturally flow thru their life. Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits (i.e. deeds). So if one's deeds are not matching up with their profession of faith, then they are a false prophet (whereby they need to get their heart right with God).

 

[Jason0047]

are you answering your own questions now?

Seeing there is a 5 minute edit limit here at this forum (whereby I cannot make changes normally like other forums), I am adding an attached message to what I said.

 

[Jason0047]

I mean, can anyone provide this so called context that defends GB9's wrong interpretation on the verses I quoted in John chapter 8? My guess is that nobody will be able to do that because there is no such verses in context proving his viewpoint.

 

[SarahM777]

If you do not provide the context of the verses to defend your interpretation of the passages I quoted, I am going to assume you have no idea what those passages (I quoted) really say.

But you DIDN'T quote the WHOLE passage within the CONTEXT. This is what YOU quoted

That is not what John chapter 8 says. Jesus said they did the lusts of their father the devil.

Read it for yourself here:


John 8:38-39, 41-42, 44 KJV

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This is what the PASSAGE ACTUALLY says

John 8

[SUP]31 [/SUP]To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. [SUP]36 [/SUP]So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [SUP]37 [/SUP]I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. [SUP]38 [/SUP]I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[SUP][b][/SUP]”
[SUP]39 [/SUP]“Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[SUP][c][/SUP] do what Abraham did. [SUP]40 [/SUP]As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. [SUP]41 [/SUP]You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. [SUP]43[/SUP]Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. [SUP]44 [/SUP]You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! [SUP]46 [/SUP]Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? [SUP]47 [/SUP]Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

You LEFT out verses 31-37,40, and 43 By the way the passage DOES show that PRIDE is at the root of what they were trying to do. Their pride was in the fact they WERE ABRAHAM'S descendants and on that BASIS they had NO NEED TO BE SET FREE FROM SIN,WHICH IS PRIDE.

Houston it seems we have a problem.

 

[Jason0047]

Only a Christian could say. 'I delight in the law of God in my inner man' (Rom 7.22). The unbeliever does not delight in the law of God. Only a believer could say, 'I as I am in myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin'.(7.25).

Thus Rom 7.14 ff is Paul's testimony as a Christian. He was aware of the continual battle between flesh and Spirit. He is not of course talking about 'simple sins' like telling lies, chasing after worldly things, being filled with hate, greed and so on. He is talking of spiritual sins like not praying enough, not serving the Lord as hard as he could (his judgment not ours), and so on. The nearer we are to God the more deeply we feel our sins and our unworthiness.

No, Paul was a law abiding Jew before he became a Christian. In Romans 7:1, Paul is addressing those who know the Law. Meaning, his audience are those who think they can be justified by the Law. So Paul recounts his experience of what he had felt when he struggled as a Jew trying to obey the law, but couldn't do it. But then..... Oh....... but then.... something beautiful happened..... Jesus Christ came into his life and so...... he now Paul is thankful to God because of him.

"Who will rescue me from this body that is taking me to death? Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own [without Jesus] I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:24-25 GNT)

We know that this is what it is saying because Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is sold under sin (Which would be before he was a Christian as a God believing Jew) and Romans 8:2 says he is free from sin.

 

[Jason0047]

But you DIDN'T quote the WHOLE passage within the CONTEXT. This is what YOU quoted



This is what the PASSAGE ACTUALLY says

John 8

[SUP]31 [/SUP]To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. [SUP]36 [/SUP]So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [SUP]37 [/SUP]I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. [SUP]38 [/SUP]I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[SUP][b][/SUP]”
[SUP]39 [/SUP]“Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[SUP][c][/SUP] do what Abraham did. [SUP]40 [/SUP]As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. [SUP]41 [/SUP]You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. [SUP]43[/SUP]Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. [SUP]44 [/SUP]You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! [SUP]46 [/SUP]Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? [SUP]47 [/SUP]Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

You LEFT out verses 31-37,40, and 43 By the way the passage DOES show that PRIDE is at the root of what they were trying to do. Their pride was in the fact they WERE ABRAHAM'S descendants and on that BASIS they had NO NEED TO BE SET FREE FROM SIN,WHICH IS PRIDE.

Houston it seems we have a problem.

I do not see how this proves your point. Yes, they wanted to kill him. Yes, they had pride. Jesus even pointed out before that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the law like justice, love, and mercy. Jesus is saying they are desiring to kill him because his Word does not abide in them. Meaning, they do not obey the Word of God. Jesus says ......

Catch this now.

Jesus says if they were Abraham's father then they would do the works of Abraham. The works of Abraham. Jesus said if they were of God they would obey His Word. Jesus did not just have murder in mind with them. They were doing all sorts of things wrong and sinful. So no. The Pharisees were of their father the devil because they did not obey God's Word.