Authority of Scripture
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DesiredHaven
Guest
The law and the prophets contain the testimony of the NC within them, even the righteousness of God without the law these being witnesses
I believe Paul knows a blind squirrel can land a nut every once and awhile, I am aware Paul quotes one of their poets in verse 28 because it says plainly he does this. That doesnt exclude references through observation (and corrections adminstered) as the law or the prophets (as Isaiah is quoted there) playing in.
For example, Acts 17:24 is referenced also in Acts 7:48-49 which is again the prophet Isaiah (verse 66:1) there. Not to mention Acts 17:16 is mentioned in respects to the same observation made in Duet 29:17 as it relates to the time of this particular ignorance pertaining to these very things noted among themselves. The same is shown in those things which ought not be done (even if in ignorance) in Acts 17: 29-30 according to the idolatry among them (which he was not only grieved by) but stated the Godhead (the fulness of which dwelled in Jesus Christ) is not to be likened unto the things mentioned back in Duet 29:17 but were likewise among them.
Acts 17:16, Duet 29:17 and reproved in Acts 17:29
Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens,
his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Duet 29:17 And ye have seen their abominations,
and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them) Acts 17:16
And Paul says accordingly
Acts 17:29 We ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto
gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Same here (as mentioned above) Acts 17:24 there quoted also in Acts 7:48 referencing the Prophet Isaiah 66:1-2
He says to them...
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein,
seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Just as is mentioned here...as saith the prophet****
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet****
Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord:
or what is the place of my rest?
Acts 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
That was quoted out of the prophet**** Isaiah 66:1-2 there.
You can read Isaiah and read the gospel itself which is what Philip did, begining at the scripture in Isaiah and preached Jesus Christ, they now had "a name" thats exactly what the eunuch was asking, WHO was this prophet speaking of himself or some other man, and Jesus Christ comes forth out of the same.
Which is really awesome because there are some controling entities which sek to Lord over others faith and have peoples faith displaced onto themselves rather then God, and to see this (beforehand) speak of Christ is a safegaurd against that particular evil (as I regard it).
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God........whether spoken or written the same faith comes dia the word of God and hearing what it has to say.......!
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DesiredHaven
Guest
Like Philip with the eunuch
Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Which was the very scripture the eunuch was reading in Acts 8:32
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee,
of whom speaketh the prophet this?
of himself,
or of some other man?
He just didnt know who the prophet Isaiah was speaking of
But as Jesus had said (of the law and the prophets)
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of me. (1John 1:2)
And so we see...
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Shows they preached Christ out of the prophets of old (which testified of what had come to pass in their own day)
And because they ask him earlier (not knowing it was him) this...
Luke 24:18... Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem,
and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
And they went on to recount what had occurred (with Jesus Christ)
And He reproves them in those things
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools,
and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
As is confirmed in Acts
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Even here this way
Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after,
as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Their commission
Mark 16:16 And he said unto them,
Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, the voices of the prophets testify to Jesus Christ
Who says,
Mark 16:17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And we see...
Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where...
Same with how Philip was led to preach the same to eunuch
Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, (being led by the Spirit) saidm
Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. (who was reading the book of Isaiah)
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him,
and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And Philip preached Jesus out of Isaiah
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
And what Jesus said, even as he understood it, to be baptized
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest (be baptized). And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (keep or discard) Mark 16:17
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
We at least know where he started reading, Isaiah (the testimony of Christ) faith come by hearing, he began at the scripture in Isaiah to preach Jesus (the eunuch believed) Philip must have mentioned being batized because the eunuch brought it up to him when he saw water, he believed was baptized and went on his way.
So we have Phillip showing Jesus Christ out of the prophets
And likewise in Apollos it shows
Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly,
shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
We see Paul expounding and testifying of the kingdom of God
Acst 28:23... persuading them concerning Jesus ,both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Even as Jesus said,
John 5:39 ...The scriptures... and they are they which testify of me.
Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Which was the very scripture the eunuch was reading in Acts 8:32
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee,
of whom speaketh the prophet this?
of himself,
or of some other man?
He just didnt know who the prophet Isaiah was speaking of
But as Jesus had said (of the law and the prophets)
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of me. (1John 1:2)
And so we see...
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Shows they preached Christ out of the prophets of old (which testified of what had come to pass in their own day)
And because they ask him earlier (not knowing it was him) this...
Luke 24:18... Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem,
and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
And they went on to recount what had occurred (with Jesus Christ)
And He reproves them in those things
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools,
and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
As is confirmed in Acts
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Even here this way
Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after,
as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Their commission
Mark 16:16 And he said unto them,
Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, the voices of the prophets testify to Jesus Christ
Who says,
Mark 16:17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And we see...
Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where...
Same with how Philip was led to preach the same to eunuch
Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, (being led by the Spirit) saidm
Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. (who was reading the book of Isaiah)
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him,
and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And Philip preached Jesus out of Isaiah
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
And what Jesus said, even as he understood it, to be baptized
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest (be baptized). And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (keep or discard) Mark 16:17
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
We at least know where he started reading, Isaiah (the testimony of Christ) faith come by hearing, he began at the scripture in Isaiah to preach Jesus (the eunuch believed) Philip must have mentioned being batized because the eunuch brought it up to him when he saw water, he believed was baptized and went on his way.
So we have Phillip showing Jesus Christ out of the prophets
And likewise in Apollos it shows
Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly,
shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
We see Paul expounding and testifying of the kingdom of God
Acst 28:23... persuading them concerning Jesus ,both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Even as Jesus said,
John 5:39 ...The scriptures... and they are they which testify of me.
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Ummm, come again?? If it is not the Jewish bible and 2/3 of the Christian bible what do you consider it to be???
Please Please Please dont take this as an attack. I am not trying to ask a question such as "Can God make a rock so big he cannot move" but I really want to know.
Did the authority of scripture come to you by revelation of the Holy Ghost?
The reason I started this thread is because I believe in the authority of scripture for an entirely different reason. I wondered if there were any out there who had a personal revelation that the Bible was the authority for all maters of faith. I wonder how common that is because when I ask Christians the question straight up (why do you believe in the authority of the Bible) I have never gotten that answer.
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atwhatcost
Guest
Ack! And you couldn't have said that three pages ago? Why not just ask that instead of doing this very long run-around?
We are not as brilliant as you seem to think we are. We never chose God. He chose us. Once he redeemed us, our eyes were opened to him, as were our hearts. (His doing, not ours.) Him in us is what gets us to realize the all of scripture (OT and NT) is his authority. No brilliant thought of ours. No personal revelation. No hocus-pocus except that God hands that over to us without us even noticing what a huge hand-off that is.
Personal revelation? Yeah, I get those. I had one last August that the Philadelphia Eagles would win the Super Bowl last February. Whoops! So much for my personal revelation.
But when God hands a revelation over to me than I get it as if it was my own, except it feels more real/true/purpose-filled. Before NT was written down (which, honestly, started happening roughly 20 years after the events, and by the guys who saw it all first hand, or one guy smart enough to be a doctor, but interviewed eyewitnesses right and left before writing his own results), God revealed himself to people throughout history.
And not just some quiet little tribe living in a remote part of the world. He handed it off to what would become the Chinese, what would become the Greeks, what would become the Incas/Aztecs/Mayans, and what would become the Zula. He merely took it one step further with the quiet little tribe in that weird little spot that's hard to pinpoint if it's Africa, Asia or Europe in a bigger way. He told them their descendant would include the Savior. That gave them a bigger stake in the game. (God's not letting that hand-off fall on deaf ears, and he's going to hassle them nonstop until it happens.) Meanwhile, the Chinese forgot Jao meant Jehovah and the Romans forgot Jove meant Jehovah. But, God, being the orchestrator and the purpose keeps right on replacing our personal revelation with the revelation he already wrote down.
We're not that brilliant. God is. Give credit where credit is due. All that credit belongs to God, not some vague personal revelation.
So the OT is not the bible because it is part of the bible.
That is like saying the OT is not the Word of God because it is part of the Word of God.
Strange logic.
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
Its weird I believe saying "THE BIBLE says ..."
To have less of an impact on the hearer then saying, "The word of GOD said..."
Its not saying THE book IS God (as some accuse) but rather that the words of God (which were by the law and the prophets) as they are referred to (even in "written form" are witnesses) which spoke by GOD (even according to the same).
And so its just acknowledging the Author.
Sorta like if My mom was away, but wrote a letter (which I might be reading) I wouldnt say, "the letter/writing says", but rather Mom says (as is applicable) .
You wouldntnecessarily be wrong to say what the letter says (in it) but for some reason it makes more of a personal impact to acknowledge the speaker Mom or the examples contained therein as from Mom's book of letters. Regardless of whether she wrote it herself or had it dictated through another.
It is written actually meant something, even as that which was written (as a testimony) to the Spirit of God being poured out (as the living witness in us that beareth witness we are the children of God). Written in paper and in hearts.
To have less of an impact on the hearer then saying, "The word of GOD said..."
Its not saying THE book IS God (as some accuse) but rather that the words of God (which were by the law and the prophets) as they are referred to (even in "written form" are witnesses) which spoke by GOD (even according to the same).
And so its just acknowledging the Author.
Sorta like if My mom was away, but wrote a letter (which I might be reading) I wouldnt say, "the letter/writing says", but rather Mom says (as is applicable) .
You wouldntnecessarily be wrong to say what the letter says (in it) but for some reason it makes more of a personal impact to acknowledge the speaker Mom or the examples contained therein as from Mom's book of letters. Regardless of whether she wrote it herself or had it dictated through another.
It is written actually meant something, even as that which was written (as a testimony) to the Spirit of God being poured out (as the living witness in us that beareth witness we are the children of God). Written in paper and in hearts.
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so what!? the demons do the same thing every day! (leaders in the rcc) --- they believe it too....
but they refuse to give their lives to JESUS. they sold out to the demons !
nothing and no one has saved you yet. and JESUS won't if you won't be willing to be saved. (as long
as you promote the demons / rcc/ catholic ways/ , you're lost) ....
but they refuse to give their lives to JESUS. they sold out to the demons !
nothing and no one has saved you yet. and JESUS won't if you won't be willing to be saved. (as long
as you promote the demons / rcc/ catholic ways/ , you're lost) ....
Only the Holy Spirit can give one to know that all Scripture is God-breathed (2Tim 3:16) from the very breath and mouth of God.
Only the Holy Spirit can cause one to see that Scripture presents no spiritual authority above itself.
All spiritual authority is under it, given by it, and always in accordance with it, and none is beyond it (1Co 4:6).
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atwhatcost
Guest
Here's my thinking, (and I could be wrong.) Logos, Word, Jesus, Bible. Logos is the Bible. Logos is the Word. Jesus is the Word. So, although the Bible isn't God, isn't it closer to God than a letter from my dad is my Dad? There's a line in the sand there. I know the Bible isn't literally God, but it is logos... or it's not. I know there is a line. I just don't quite get where that line is, but think it's an important line somehow.
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DesiredHaven
Guest
Jesus is the word of God no doubt Jesus himself referred to what Moses commanded as the word of God.
Jesus didnt speak from himself he said and Moses said (by God) that he would his words (in Christ's mouth) when raising up a prophet (which Jesus also was) and that the word he (Jesus) had spoken would judge them on the last day.
In other words THE Word Jesus spoke the Word of God (the Father) as the Word of God is quicker then any double edged sword but He still gives us the WORDS (called the word of God) which is also the sword of the Spirit (even as the same sword) preceeds out of his mouth also
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atwhatcost
Guest
You definitely have a handle of the line in the sand better than I do. I'm looking at a bunch of dunes and know there's a line not to cross somewhere around here. You seem to have who the Word is better than I. You know where that line is.
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DesiredHaven
Guest
You definitely have a handle of the line in the sand better than I do. I'm looking at a bunch of dunes and know there's a line not to cross somewhere around here. You seem to have who the Word is better than I. You know where that line is.
You have it correct, the Jesus is the Word (himself).
Its just the words (even the doctrine) Jesus had spoken (whether we were there to hear it spoken live or whether that same was written down for us Jesus words (His doctrine) were not his own (even as he said) but the Fathers. And so the word (who is Jesus, made flesh) who went out from the Father spake the words of God (the Father). And the word made flesh (Jesus) said that the word he (the word) had spoken would judge them in the last day). Which is in accord with Moses own words when speaking by God concerning Christs own words .
Duet 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And also,
Duet 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto ((my words)) which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jesus said "wrote of me") and Moses was speaking by God when he wrote,
and will put (((my words))) in his mouth;
and he shall ((speak)) unto them all that I shall ((command)) him.
Whereas here Jesus said,
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words,
hath one that judgeth him: ((( the word))) that I have ((spoken)),
(( the same )) shall judge him in the last day.
Jesus knew the same as God said so much here accordingly
Duet 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name,
I will ((require it)) of him.
Because He had given them the words that the Father gave him
John 17:8 For I have ((given)) unto them the words which (( thou gavest)) me;
and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out ((from thee)),
and they have believed that thou didst send me.
When you believe in Jesus Christ (the word made flesh in a the person of Christ) even as Moses wrote of Him accordingly. And just as Moses has spoken as the word of God, (as even they knew God spake by Moses) Moses (as well as the prophets testifies Jesus (the word made flesh) who would speak by the commandment of God, and not by himself as Jesus also confirmed.
They are just tied in together, like being a wise man building on a rock is a twofold thing Jesus Christ, the Word (and His word spoken) which were God's word in his mouth (as God told Moses that is what he would do and that is what Jesus affirms.
Its actually a killer study though