How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

[just-us-2]

Just for the sake of edification (which we should all welcome!), imagine you are one of those poor, misguided souls who still believe the law is a valid part of God’s “every word” and you are in the presence of more enlightened, “real” Christians. What would you want them to do? How would you want to be treated?

There are some scriptures that apply to the situation:

What I grew up with as 'the Golden Rule' - Matthew 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
(CJB) Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the Prophets.
(Aramaic English New Testament) All that which you desire that the sons of men should do for you, also like this you do to them.

And then there is the Apostle Paul’s exhortation:
1 Corinthians 9:19-23 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
(CJB)
19 Being circumcised means nothing, and being uncircumcised means nothing; what does mean something is keeping God's commandments.
20 Each person should remain in the condition he was in when he was called.
21 Were you a slave when you were called? Well, don't let it bother you; although if you can gain your freedom, take advantage of the opportunity.
22 For a person who was a slave when he was called is the Lord's freedman; likewise, someone who was a free man when he was called is a slave of the Messiah.
23 You were bought at a price, so do not become slaves of other human beings.
(Aramaic English New Testament)
19 Being free from them all, I have made myself a servant to every man; that I might gain many;
20 And with the Jews, I was as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; and with those under Torah, I was under Torah, that I might gain them that are under Torah;
21 And to those who have not Torah, I was without Torah, (although I am not without Torah to Elohim, but subject to the Torah of the Mashiyach), that I might gain them that are without Torah.
22 I was with the weak, that I might gain the weak; I was all things to all men, that I might restore every one.
23 And this I do that I may participate in the announcement.

James 4:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
(CJB)
11 Brothers, stop speaking against each other! Whoever speaks against a brother or judges a brother is speaking against Torah and judging Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of what Torah says, but a judge.
12 There is but one Giver of Torah; he is also the Judge, with the power to deliver and to destroy. Who do you think you are, judging your fellow human being?
(Aramaic English New Testament)
11 Speak not against each other, my Brothers; for he that speaks against his brother, or judges his brother speaks against Torah and judges Torah. And if you judge Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of Torah, but its judge.
12 There is one Torah-giver and Judge who can make alive and (can) destroy: but who are youthat you judge your neighbor?

Who are we to condemn what God has spoken?
Rather, we are to “rightly divide” it and edify one another with a character of gentleness, kindness and firmness.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
(CJB)
15 but treat the Messiah as holy, as Lord in your hearts;s while remaining always ready to give a reasoned answer to anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you - yet with humility and fear,
16 keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are spoken against, those who abuse the good behavior flowing from your union with the Messiah may be put to shame.
(Aramaic English New Testament)
15 But sanctify Master YHWH the Mashiyach in your hearts. And be you ready for a vindication before everyone who demands of you an account of the hope of your faith,
16 in meekness and respect, as having a good conscience; so that they that speak against you as bad men may be ashamed for having maligned your good conduct in the Mashiyach.

 

[crossnote]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

The usual scenario on CC is different. Both sides have their heels dug in 5ft deep.

 

[just-us-2]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

The usual scenario on CC is different. Both sides have their heels dug in 5ft deep.

That should not be if Christians are the people conversing. Standing firm upon the Word of God is one thing, and commendable, but you are correct – it is different in here and that is belligerence – and that should never be.

 

[oldthennew]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

The usual scenario on CC is different. Both sides have their heels dug in 5ft deep.

=======================================================

oh yes, cross,

and this is as it should be, we individually dig as our heart demand.....
and not anothers.....

 

[crossnote]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

It's one thing when those with a weak conscience (let's say, with regarding meat, they can't eat it due to their conscience ) and a totally different matter when one pronounces it's a sin to eat meat.
The first should be treated gently and we should not eat meat in his presence.
The second should be confronted with his legalism.

 

[atwhatcost]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Just for the sake of edification (which we should all welcome!), imagine you are one of those poor, misguided souls who still believe the law is a valid part of God’s “every word” and you are in the presence of more enlightened, “real” Christians. What would you want them to do? How would you want to be treated?

There are some scriptures that apply to the situation:

What I grew up with as 'the Golden Rule' - Matthew 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
(CJB) Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the Prophets.
(Aramaic English New Testament) All that which you desire that the sons of men should do for you, also like this you do to them.

And then there is the Apostle Paul’s exhortation:
1 Corinthians 9:19-23 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
(CJB)
19 Being circumcised means nothing, and being uncircumcised means nothing; what does mean something is keeping God's commandments.
20 Each person should remain in the condition he was in when he was called.
21 Were you a slave when you were called? Well, don't let it bother you; although if you can gain your freedom, take advantage of the opportunity.
22 For a person who was a slave when he was called is the Lord's freedman; likewise, someone who was a free man when he was called is a slave of the Messiah.
23 You were bought at a price, so do not become slaves of other human beings.
(Aramaic English New Testament)
19 Being free from them all, I have made myself a servant to every man; that I might gain many;
20 And with the Jews, I was as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; and with those under Torah, I was under Torah, that I might gain them that are under Torah;
21 And to those who have not Torah, I was without Torah, (although I am not without Torah to Elohim, but subject to the Torah of the Mashiyach), that I might gain them that are without Torah.
22 I was with the weak, that I might gain the weak; I was all things to all men, that I might restore every one.
23 And this I do that I may participate in the announcement.

James 4:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
(CJB)
11 Brothers, stop speaking against each other! Whoever speaks against a brother or judges a brother is speaking against Torah and judging Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of what Torah says, but a judge.
12 There is but one Giver of Torah; he is also the Judge, with the power to deliver and to destroy. Who do you think you are, judging your fellow human being?
(Aramaic English New Testament)
11 Speak not against each other, my Brothers; for he that speaks against his brother, or judges his brother speaks against Torah and judges Torah. And if you judge Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of Torah, but its judge.
12 There is one Torah-giver and Judge who can make alive and (can) destroy: but who are youthat you judge your neighbor?

Who are we to condemn what God has spoken?
Rather, we are to “rightly divide” it and edify one another with a character of gentleness, kindness and firmness.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
(CJB)
15 but treat the Messiah as holy, as Lord in your hearts;s while remaining always ready to give a reasoned answer to anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you - yet with humility and fear,
16 keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are spoken against, those who abuse the good behavior flowing from your union with the Messiah may be put to shame.
(Aramaic English New Testament)
15 But sanctify Master YHWH the Mashiyach in your hearts. And be you ready for a vindication before everyone who demands of you an account of the hope of your faith,
16 in meekness and respect, as having a good conscience; so that they that speak against you as bad men may be ashamed for having maligned your good conduct in the Mashiyach.

This is kind of like trying to imagine I'm a 59 year old women living in Philly who has this weird thing for teddy bears (and raspberries.) Oh wait! I am that too. lol

God is the law, so when we look at the law we get some kind of aspect who God is. And since the law is covered in two sentences by Jesus,
New International Version
He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
it's not very hard for me to love such people. I am such people.

So, backatcha. How are you dealing with that? lol

 

[just-us-2]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

It's one thing when those with a weak conscience (let's say, with regarding meat, they can't eat it due to their conscience ) and a totally different matter when one pronounces it's a sin to eat meat.
The first should be treated gently and we should not eat meat in his presence.
The second should be confronted with his legalism.

The question is not what to address but more so HOW to treat the people one feels MUST be addressed due to their "legalism" or whatever other situation might come up. And therein lies the problem - one cannot treat others as the Word of God tells us to when he/she lacks humility. No matter what the topic, there is always a related issue that will refer to some other part of scripture (which is why no scripture is of private interpretation) and will back up every other scripture when correctly understood. In this case, how we address issues with others that believe differently than we do ends up going back to approaching those issues with humility rather than arrogance.

 

[oldthennew]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

for us, the Law is the Law is the Law - and that Is the Law and the Law and the Law -

may we all Love the Law and Him who gave it in its entirety for ever and for ever, amen.

 

[just-me]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

This is kind of like trying to imagine I'm a 59 year old women living in Philly who has this weird thing for teddy bears (and raspberries.) Oh wait! I am that too. lol

God is the law, so when we look at the law we get some kind of aspect who God is. And since the law is covered in two sentences by Jesus,
New International Version
He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
it's not very hard for me to love such people. I am such people.

So, backatcha. How are you dealing with that? lol

The instructions on how to love God's way are written in Leviticus 19:11-18, and Deuteronomy 6:1-6. That's for starters so we won't make the mistake of loving our own way, for God's ways are not our ways. God Bless sis!

 

[Least]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Sometimes it's baffling to see how offended some get because of studies that are based on God's word.
It's even more baffling when others join in with an angry mob mentality.
That's when it seems to cross a line from "love your neighbor," to almost a joint hatred for the person who shared what they studied.

I suppose that if a person rejects the idea of obedience one can't expect much more.

Still, it's troubling that some get more angry over the scriptures being shared because they involve the law, than they do with certain behaviors that go against the two laws that they will stand by.

I'm being silly now, but to answer the question of the topic, "stone them!'

Sometimes i think that if certain ones were together in person arguing over certain "legal," issues...that might just be what would happen....

 

[Billyd]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

I've been here long enough to recognize those who are really asking a question or just wanting to argue. I have adopted the ignore list for the arguers.

 

[just-me]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Sometimes it's baffling to see how offended some get because of studies that are based on God's word.
It's even more baffling when others join in with an angry mob mentality.
That's when it seems to cross a line from "love your neighbor," to almost a joint hatred for the person who shared what they studied.

I suppose that if a person rejects the idea of obedience one can't expect much more.

Still, it's troubling that some get more angry over the scriptures being shared because they involve the law, than they do with certain behaviors that go against the two laws that they will stand by.

I'm being silly now, but to answer the question of the topic, "stone them!'

Sometimes i think that if certain ones were together in person arguing over certain "legal," issues...that might just be what would happen....

I have thought about "stoning" and how it would apply to the New Covenant through Christ Jesus. I think about the woman caught in the act of adultery for one. Then I think about the scripture that says that we do not fight against flesh and blood, but against the principalities of darkness etc.

I think that stoning still applies in the spiritual metaphorical sense. Its the sin that needs to be killed, not the sinner, otherwise we would all be dead. Christ came to change us, deliver us from a certain death, separate us from the world's ways, and graft us Gentiles into His kingdom. That is a close spiritual parallel to the exodus, the crossing of the Red Sea, receiving the Torah, and the entering into the promised land. All along the way, God speaks and says, "and so thou shalt put the evil away from among you." We should love enough to stick our necks out once in a while. Death to the sin, hail to the King!!

 

[just-me]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

So how are Christians suppose to deal with people who are "under the law," or being labeled as as such?" I think that is in the OP, but that's also the title of the thread.

I think I contributed too much and got of topic. Sorry.

 

[atwhatcost]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

This is kind of like trying to imagine I'm a 59 year old women living in Philly who has this weird thing for teddy bears (and raspberries.) Oh wait! I am that too. lol

God is the law, so when we look at the law we get some kind of aspect who God is. And since the law is covered in two sentences by Jesus,
New International Version
He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
it's not very hard for me to love such people. I am such people.

So, backatcha. How are you dealing with that? lol

Just-us-2, I really would like an answer to my question posed here. I think your premise is funny, but I'm not kidding.

 

[Least]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

I have thought about "stoning" and how it would apply to the New Covenant through Christ Jesus. I think about the woman caught in the act of adultery for one. Then I think about the scripture that says that we do not fight against flesh and blood, but against the principalities of darkness etc.

I think that stoning still applies in the spiritual metaphorical sense. Its the sin that needs to be killed, not the sinner, otherwise we would all be dead. Christ came to change us, deliver us from a certain death, separate us from the world's ways, and graft us Gentiles into His kingdom. That is a close spiritual parallel to the exodus, the crossing of the Red Sea, receiving the Torah, and the entering into the promised land. All along the way, God speaks and says, "and so thou shalt put the evil away from among you." We should love enough to stick our necks out once in a while. Death to the sin, hail to the King!!

I agree, when we've been spoken to in a harsh unloving (or hateful) manner, (or even cursed at,) it can leave you feeling like you got hit with a brick.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(I was going to post this comment on your other message. But it fits here with what you said. And it's another example of principles that carried over and are still in effect.)

Leviticus 19:17 "'Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt."

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

That is actually loving someone, and "taking heed to yourselves," so you will not share in their guilt. If we see a brother or sister sinning rebuking them out of love is a requirement.

I read something a few days ago that really stood out to me and it came to mind while reading your comment:

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Un-forgivness, resentment, spite, slander (among other things at work in a persons heart) would give the enemy "an advantage," as Paul stated in the above verse. That's a huge part of the battle.

Psalms 34:14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

 

[just-us-2]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

I also have a well-used ignore list. And while it does solve the problem of having to endure harassment in the forums, it does nothing to correct the same issue elsewhere. Nor does that handy little button teach the “babes in Christ” a vital step in maturing, as God’s Word tells us to. Professing Christians who are unlearned on a given subject but can’t keep their mouth shut and learn from others, as in edifying one another instead of tearing each other down, yet insist upon vocalizing all of their great (nonexistent) biblical knowledge, have given real Christianity a bad reputation. And it can be traced back to self-importance, self-righteousness, self-justification, pride, arrogance…uh oh – we’re back to that hated word again: “humility” or more accurately in this case, the lack thereof.
Unbelievers are supposed to see Christ in us and that is supposed to make them want what Christians have. I have actually been told by someone who no longer goes to church that he can enjoy better camaraderie over a beer with a guy than in any of the churches he’s gone to. Why would they want the things we see amongst each other? They can find bickering and nastiness anywhere.
I cannot imagine Jesus Christ walking this earth with the attitude we see so much of amongst professing Christians today, in spite of the fact that He has all knowledge and wisdom possible. And we are to be imitators of Him; to have the mind of Christ; treating one another with gentleness and kindness. Now, here’s a scary thought – imagine what the world would be like today if Jesus had walked the earth teaching love and demonstrating the opposite.
Again, the question is not what to address but more so HOW to treat the people one feels MUST be addressed due to whatever situation might come up.

 

[just-me]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

I agree, when we've been spoken to in a harsh unloving (or hateful) manner, (or even cursed at,) it can leave you feeling like you got hit with a brick.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(I was going to post this comment on your other message. But it fits here with what you said. And it's another example of principles that carried over and are still in effect.)

Leviticus 19:17 "'Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt."

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

That is actually loving someone, and "taking heed to yourselves," so you will not share in their guilt. If we see a brother or sister sinning rebuking them out of love is a requirement.

I read something a few days ago that really stood out to me and it came to mind while reading your comment:

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Un-forgivness, resentment, spite, slander (among other things at work in a persons heart) would give the enemy "an advantage," as Paul stated in the above verse. That's a huge part of the battle.

Psalms 34:14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

Thank you. What you presented is such a good contribution toward edifying one another, to all who read it.

 

[Jeff_56]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

So how are Christians suppose to deal with people who are "under the law," or being labeled as as such?" I think that is in the OP, but that's also the title of the thread.

I think I contributed too much and got of topic. Sorry.

"starters" seemed a good start. but the op was jumbled up and dind't make sense.
and
you got the title of the thread mixed up a little. notice the same letters are in title and little, one extra 'l' in little. (a small point).


the answer is found in psalm 119. (same in Yahweh, in Yahshua)

 

[just-us-2]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

This is kind of like trying to imagine I'm a 59 year old women living in Philly who has this weird thing for teddy bears (and raspberries.) Oh wait! I am that too. lol

God is the law, so when we look at the law we get some kind of aspect who God is. And since the law is covered in two sentences by Jesus,
New International Version
He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
it's not very hard for me to love such people. I am such people.

So, backatcha. How are you dealing with that? lol

Just-us-2, I really would like an answer to my question posed here. I think your premise is funny, but I'm not kidding.

I really don’t understand your question in reference to my opening post about how to treat others we are convinced ‘have it all wrong’ on some biblical subject. I apologize but would you please clarify your question? Is it my premise you have a question about - I don't know what is humorous but maybe I am missing something. Or is it how do I love people? Again, I apologize for not understanding.

 

[crossnote]

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

The question is not what to address but more so HOW to treat the people one feels MUST be addressed due to their "legalism" or whatever other situation might come up. And therein lies the problem - one cannot treat others as the Word of God tells us to when he/she lacks humility. No matter what the topic, there is always a related issue that will refer to some other part of scripture (which is why no scripture is of private interpretation) and will back up every other scripture when correctly understood. In this case, how we address issues with others that believe differently than we do ends up going back to approaching those issues with humility rather than arrogance.

I did mention 'how to treat' the weaker brother in the example by saying we shouldn't eat meat in his presence. IOW, Our liberty shouldn't be used as a weapon against weaker consciences.