How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

sparkman · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Romans 14 gives you that liberality, and yes that is fine. Same with Sabbathkeeping or festival observance.

The problem comes when a person asserts that Sabbathkeeping, festival observance, clean and unclean meats is a condition of salvation, or earns, merits, or continues salvation.

In my situation I was taught that all non Sabbathkeepers were unbelievers. Seventh Day Adventists don't teach that exactly, but they claim that they are the true church, in part, because they keep the Sabbath, and that all other believers will either become part of them in the end time, or be under the Mark of the Beast due to it, and lose their salvation. So, I see very little difference in the assertions of the Seventh Day Adventists. The other distinguishing mark of the SDAs and their claim to be the true church is the 'spirit of prophecy' as evidenced by Ellen G. White. This is problematic because she had poor character, plagiarizing other peoples' works and claiming they came from direct revelation from God, along with her 'accompanying angel' spirit guide, which is from obviously occultic origin.

breno785au · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

JesusLives said:

That's fantastic. Yes, I think that's a good way to go about it and I believe Paul spoke about such things in that manner, just gotta find the scripture i'm thinking of...

just-us-2 · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

atwhatcost said:

I see! Sorry about not ‘getting it’ earlier. Thank you for your comments.

I, too, am one of “them” so I don’t need to imagine, but it is obvious that we are in a minority. Since people seem disagree about “the law” so much, and thinking that using that in the title would cause more to read the op, I used it as an example to remind that large contingent of professing Christians that we are to have an entirely different attitude and demeanor than purposefully abrasive premature unfounded judgments of another. My hope was that some would read and take an objective look at themselves, as all of us should. I know a lot of guests come in and read even though they don’t post comments so we will never know how many have learned something beneficial.

My point was that Paul even gives us instruction concerning how he communicated with folks that were in error. Paul is considered by many to be blunt and even egotistical, and I understand where that impression comes from, but regardless of that, he still did not get hateful with those whom he was trying to communicate with. Furthermore, how many individuals would have turned to Christ when He walked this earth if He had manifested the same attitude toward everyone as He did the Pharisees, who distorted the truth of the law when He spoke, as so many do when they are compelled (by what…or by whom are they compelled???) to straighten “us” out?

It is sometimes difficult to be patient and gentle when I am railed at with false accusations – someone telling me I am something I’m not – and being accused of “picking and choosing” certain parts of scripture that suit my agenda – when it is the false accuser who chooses to say part of God’s Word is irrelevant, defunct, abolished, for the old days in biblical times, etc. – who is neglecting part of the Word – His Father’s law that Jesus said He didn’t come to abolish. Jesus made a clear distinction between abolishing the law and fulfilling it. How one can say another “cherry picks” scripture when that person himself/herself is the one who disregards part of the Bible. I guess I also have a fairly low tolerance of willful ignorance, which abounds these days in the realm of professing Christians. (Yes, the keyword is “professing”)

Now for the short answer to your question: as Paul instructs us (become like some so some can be saved - 1 Corinthians 9:20) with the humility and gentleness we would like others to use when seeing us in error and needing correction. If this prescription is followed an agreement can be attained –and I don’t mean we can “agree to disagree” – a statement that has no place in the discussion of God’s Word. The truth is the truth. Period.

“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.” Albert Einstein.

just-us-2 · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Jason0047 said:

Thank you for your comments. And thank you for manifesting the kindness our Savior expects of us.
I particularly like that your brought out that “love” is one part of nine which make up a complete picture of the fruit of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(CJB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 humility, self control. Nothing in the Torah stands against such things.
(AENT)
22 The fruits then of the Spirit are these: Love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, self-control. Against these there is no instruction put in place.

If one part of anything is missing, it is incomplete.

atwhatcost · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-us-2 said:

I'm rereading this thread, because yesterday was a tough day for me on this site and I'm now seeing if I didn't misunderstand you in light of how I was feeling when I left this site last night. I did (misunderstand you.)

But, in all fairness, it did look like yet another attack on Us vs. Them. And, on the other hand, I think it was a purposeful attack on Us vs. Themism. Touche'! Bull's eye.

I felt the parry in two ways:
1. Didn't even bother me, because I've met enough Christians on both sides of your supposed argument. (And I call it a supposed argument now, because I see that wasn't it from the get-go. Simply an attempt to shock people enough to get the real topic started.) Some things I believe knowing the belief isn't likely to change, so, if others disagree, well, okay, but that doesn't mean we can't be brothers, and it certainly doesn't mean we aren't brothers. We merely disagree.
2. I wasted two days talking to a bunch of supposed-Christians (supposed, only in that I'm supposed to believe they're Christians until otherwise notified, not in the usual way I use that term) over something similar to this, and sure enough, 80% of them had a first impression of what I meant with my first post, (which was related to how you started yours... not so much something believed, but something posted like it was so people could truly think out what I was saying in hopes of giving me easier choices), without ever going back over to read what was truly said, and therefore, felt they had all rights to attack me with impunity. I thought I was saying it wrong -- which is quite possible, and, in part, accurate. BUT 20% did get it, so I finally realized it wasn't all me, it was in the hearts of people to attack before understanding what was really said. So, it stung (like being stoned by family, so, in that sense, it's obvious stoning still happens today), and my defense were up when I read your post.

Sorry about that. But I also notice something else yesterday. This same subject came up in three different ways all within the first page of this forum. All three were saying the same thing but in different ways. "Remember love, not harassment." The only one that worked effectively, worked because people didn't get the sense it had anything to do with here -- just a vague outside life. ("As long as you aren't saying anything that might make me have to change in all parts in my life -- particularly on this site, where people might hold me accountable -- I'll go along with you" kind of feeling. Which is sad, because she too wanted real answers.)

And sorry about that, because I really did see your message as being harassment, not love at first. But therein lies the picture.

This forum breeds harassers. Even if people don't give the first post a chance, there is a mob mentality going on. Either we have to get to our point in one sentence or less, AND make that point so obvious that a three year old can get it, that harrassing will never end. Look at the longest threads on this board. Surely it doesn't take 20-200 pages to finally get what someone is saying. So, anything after a certain point is nothing but roaches coming out of the woodwork to stone the poster or to have their particular say in a subject with the sad excuse "I'm not reading the rest (to find out what's really going on. I'm just going to blurt the first thing that comes to mind.")

Not any difference than nonbelievers. No wonder it makes more sense to have a beer at a bar, if this is all Christianity gives us.

So, ultimately, I finally figured out what you really meant, and kudos! Good point. Unfortunately, since you didn't get to that point in the first sentence and didn't make it clear enough that even a three year old can understand, I suspect you spend the next couple of days trying to get others to see what you meant all along. I'm very, very sorry about that. I feel for you. By the time this is over, you too will get that feeling of being stoned by the brothers.

It stings. It brings less trust in the brothers. And yet, we're called to love others whether they're brothers are enemies. The Israelites aren't the only stiff-necked people God has chosen.

Just know, some are hearing you. I did. The only problem is you may be preaching to the choir. The rest will continue about their lives always looking for some minor infraction to correct in others, then ever seeing there might be a sequoia in their eye. I've come to believe we all have logs in our eyes. Fortunately, some logs allow for some sight beyond the log, and other logs are being cared for in hopes they will turn into huge trees.

Trust comes from having people trust you first. That's never a given, on here or IRL. Trust leads to love. According to Jesus there should be both, but according to on here, it's much more important to correct -- no understanding, trust, or love required.

just-me · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Since the time that I have been contributing to this forum, I have been accused of wanting to be "under the law" by several people. How the accusations begin, I still don't know. All I have done was present my understanding of the law in relation to the reality of salvation in Jesus Christ, and then it happens. I finally challenged the accusers to follow Paul's example in 1 Corinthians 9:20 because it clearly was verbalized that I wasn't "under grace" because the law and grace are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;"

The accusations continued and ultimately I was challenged by a moderator saying that I was pushing Sabbath keeping. I won't go into detail about that because I believe God chooses the day according to the feasts, not me. Finally I was left alone because the accusations against me were proven to be false, thanks to the investigation of the moderator. Evidently I had been reported.

So the end result was that my challenge to follow Paul's example was not heeded, but it caused the accusers to back away somewhat. In conversation, it became obvious that the accusers didn't know enough about the law to pull me out from "under the law."

So I give a challenge to all those who demand that the UN-defiled law of God Almighty and the grace of Jesus Christ do not mix. Study the law in its original spiritual intent, relating it to the grace of Jesus Christ, (as hard as that might be) and minister to those who you truly believe are "under the law" (or want to be) so you can gain people, such as myself, into the Kingdom. You just might find that those whom you are accusing of wanting to be "under the law" actually have been living by the grace of God all along, because they refuse to make some of God's word void to themselves.

And Jesus said; "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49

atwhatcost · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

And so, you decided to have yours 'dug' in the 'middle' in 'six feet under', being a 'lukewarm' and a 'spectator' between both in 'action'.

Aren't you a 'spiteful' one towards your brethren, for you 'judge' them both in your own opinion headed words without Scripture justification that your 'testimony' is of truth. Therefore one will only end up 'condemning' oneself because they do the very same thing that others who they judge do?

The 'Word' say one who hate is a 'murderer' of their brethren?

Haven't you not found between both sides, even one is founded in 'knowledge' of Grace and Truth and 'testifying', or JESUS gave you everything in distinction above both and appointed you as 'judge' about your brethren?

i am very sad and discouraged to witness a 'self' growing 'cold' comments about others, ignorantly in a 'conceit' manner.

'Digging down deep and laying one's foundation on the 'rock' is not a mandatory crime'. Have 'compassion' from spitefulness and make useful your given time using the given talent and 'serve' to 'built up' HIS people instead.

'Turn back' while you can before it is too late and be 'cut off' from the 'cultivated olive tree' and left to 'wither'.

Thank you and GOD bless you and 'open' HIS Spiritual eyes upon yours, in order to understand first of all Grace and Truth in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

As it is written;

"The accuser of our brethren day and night."

The very 'self' same comment satan gave in the council held in Heaven, when GOD asked him about HIS servant 'Job'.

This is a 'lesson' for me too and i thank you also, i am able learn from your mistakes and from the correction of the LORD who loves you, how i my-'self' can get 'side track' at times, in my carnal/flesh/self's passions and desires, that wars against and grief the HOLY SPIRIT, by acting 'immoral' apart from the 'spirit anf life' moral Holy Scripture guide, the written New Covenant/Testament, GOD made with us, through LORD JESUS CHRIST our Savior and redeemer.

And you absolutely don't see you're doing to her what you believe she is doing? Spiteful!

atwhatcost · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

I too made assumptions by Crossnote's (a him, not a her, sorry about that) first post, but I didn't really fully understand it, so I waited to see if I would. I did, eventually.

Given you wouldn't give even that much, you are one of the people I was talking about, who rather come out of the woodwork and splatter opinion without worrying about context. Don't blame God for that, because that's not God. That's you.

atwhatcost · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-us-2 said:

I see! Sorry about not ‘getting it’ earlier. Thank you for your comments.

I, too, am one of “them” so I don’t need to imagine, but it is obvious that we are in a minority. Since people seem disagree about “the law” so much, and thinking that using that in the title would cause more to read the op, I used it as an example to remind that large contingent of professing Christians that we are to have an entirely different attitude and demeanor than purposefully abrasive premature unfounded judgments of another. My hope was that some would read and take an objective look at themselves, as all of us should. I know a lot of guests come in and read even though they don’t post comments so we will never know how many have learned something beneficial.

My point was that Paul even gives us instruction concerning how he communicated with folks that were in error. Paul is considered by many to be blunt and even egotistical, and I understand where that impression comes from, but regardless of that, he still did not get hateful with those whom he was trying to communicate with. Furthermore, how many individuals would have turned to Christ when He walked this earth if He had manifested the same attitude toward everyone as He did the Pharisees, who distorted the truth of the law when He spoke, as so many do when they are compelled (by what…or by whom are they compelled???) to straighten “us” out?

It is sometimes difficult to be patient and gentle when I am railed at with false accusations – someone telling me I am something I’m not – and being accused of “picking and choosing” certain parts of scripture that suit my agenda – when it is the false accuser who chooses to say part of God’s Word is irrelevant, defunct, abolished, for the old days in biblical times, etc. – who is neglecting part of the Word – His Father’s law that Jesus said He didn’t come to abolish. Jesus made a clear distinction between abolishing the law and fulfilling it. How one can say another “cherry picks” scripture when that person himself/herself is the one who disregards part of the Bible. I guess I also have a fairly low tolerance of willful ignorance, which abounds these days in the realm of professing Christians. (Yes, the keyword is “professing”)

Now for the short answer to your question: as Paul instructs us (become like some so some can be saved - 1 Corinthians 9:20) with the humility and gentleness we would like others to use when seeing us in error and needing correction. If this prescription is followed an agreement can be attained –and I don’t mean we can “agree to disagree” – a statement that has no place in the discussion of God’s Word. The truth is the truth. Period.

“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.” Albert Einstein.

Now, if only this were easy. lol

Thank you.

atwhatcost · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-me said:

Since the time that I have been contributing to this forum, I have been accused of wanting to be "under the law" by several people. How the accusations begin, I still don't know. All I have done was present my understanding of the law in relation to the reality of salvation in Jesus Christ, and then it happens. I finally challenged the accusers to follow Paul's example in 1 Corinthians 9:20 because it clearly was verbalized that I wasn't "under grace" because the law and grace are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;"

The accusations continued and ultimately I was challenged by a moderator saying that I was pushing Sabbath keeping. I won't go into detail about that because I believe God chooses the day according to the feasts, not me. Finally I was left alone because the accusations against me were proven to be false, thanks to the investigation of the moderator. Evidently I had been reported.

So the end result was that my challenge to follow Paul's example was not heeded, but it caused the accusers to back away somewhat. In conversation, it became obvious that the accusers didn't know enough about the law to pull me out from "under the law."

So I give a challenge to all those who demand that the UN-defiled law of God Almighty and the grace of Jesus Christ do not mix. Study the law in its original spiritual intent, relating it to the grace of Jesus Christ, (as hard as that might be) and minister to those who you truly believe are "under the law" (or want to be) so you can gain people, such as myself, into the Kingdom. You just might find that those whom you are accusing of wanting to be "under the law" actually have been living by the grace of God all along, because they refuse to make some of God's word void to themselves.

And Jesus said; "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49

Amen! (And thanks for the headsup on how to deal with people who are getting on my case for stuff I don't even believe.)

crossnote · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

well, when you have something of substance to say, I'll respond, but these derelectal ramblings I haven't a clue where to begin.

just-us-2 · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

fredjames said:

It is possible – and allowable – to be outraged/angry, and that is not necessarily an opposite of ‘gentle’. A lack of self-control would cause one to be outraged and not gentle though. See Ephesians 4:26-27.

fredjames said:

I will reply to these other things in your post briefly, although I refuse to derail a thread because someone wants to change the topic… in this case from HOW to speak to others who have a different understanding of a biblical subject TO wrong those who study, respect, strive to understand the spiritual relevance of the law to this current time we live in, and refuse to neglect a single word, jot or tittle of what God saw fit to preserve for us in the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century. That discussion belongs elsewhere.

“Safety from the ‘Law of Moses’”????? Why would anyone need safety FROM what God gave? God gave His Law, by inspiration through Moses, for the good of all mankind. It has not failed – mankind has, but not God’s law. Therefore, as He knew would happen, when man fell He had a plan whereby those desiring to could restore their relationship with Almighty God. After all, it’s all about relationship anyway.
A study of Paul will show that he had nothing bad to say about the law. The fact that man is not saved or justified by simply doing the works of the law with no “heart” involved is not a condemnation of the law by Paul. See Acts 24 and Romans 7 to start examining Paul’s heart and mind.

fredjames said:

IF you understood the covenants of God, you would not ask this question, but here is a brief explanation taken from a rather extensive study of the covenants.

An illustration of this entire concept of the “old” and the “new/renewed” covenants and how the new is not a separate unconnected entity which made the “old” obsolete, of no value, null and void, can be seen when doing a word study on the various key words, such as: “faultless” in Hebrews 8:7: “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.” According to Strong’s Concordance, the word “faultless” in this verse is the Greek word # 278 ametameletos am-et-am-el'-ay-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 3338; irrevocable:--without repentance, not to be repented of. Since it was derived from # 3338, I had to follow that back to see how it is described. And on it went but it got quite involved so I am going to skip the long Greek definitions for everything I was led to as I studied and consolidate things.

One thing I noticed was that the Greek word “meta” is part of all of these derivative words and that led me to the word we still use today – metamorphosis. (Strong’s #3339 = metamorphoo met-am-or-fo'-o from 3326 and 3445; to transform (literally or figuratively, "metamorphose"):--change, transfigure, transform) Consider the lowly caterpillar for a moment. The caterpillar hatches from the egg a butterfly laid on a leaf and lives out its life happily munching on the plant where it hatched. It can only eat certain varieties of leaves – a comparison in my own mind of the food of God’s Word that we need to consume to be spiritually nourished. Once it has eaten all it needs to grow as big as it is supposed to (easily compared to God’s timing for each level of His covenant to be accomplished, step-by-step), the caterpillar forms a chrysalis or pupa. I used to think that a caterpillar spun a chrysalis and then emerged, like a spider spins a web, but the caterpillar actually becomes the chrysalis and this is where the transformation we call metamorphosis occurs. While the caterpillar is in the form of the chrysalis, its body is changing – not dying! When all of the forming and changing is complete, the caterpillar emerges as a beautiful butterfly. The butterfly should be seen as a completion of the old, not because the caterpillar was faulty, but because it had its purpose to fulfill just like the levels of God’s covenant have to each be fulfilled so the next stage can be built upon it. The New/Renewed Covenant must be seen as COMPLETION OF THE OLD...NOT FAULTY – just incomplete, which is why Jesus said He came to “FULFILL” and not destroy what God had already set in place.

If one thinks about it, we can’t be born again if we have never been born so that too is based upon something “old” or in existence before the new birth. That reminded me of way back when our kids were young and we had a record of Barry McGuire singing Bullfrogs and Butterflies. And since everything God created has a spiritual application, if one rejects this concept, what does that say about him rejecting God’s perfect creation of which the butterfly is a part? Kill the caterpillar and see if a butterfly is ever produced. Break the cycle and both new and old cease to exist.

Face it, the dynamics are lost if the “old” is discarded.

crossnote · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

I think a major factor of much friction (and yes I'm guilty too) is that we overly rely on our own arguments of 'wisdom' and 'insight' to try to persuade and protect others from 'doctrinal error' instead of committing the matter to God and entrusting their souls to Him.

just-me · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

crossnote said:

Yes, we all fall short, but that conviction just draws us closer to the fact that we all need Christ every day, and that He has given us all the opportunity to confess to each other, and edify each other. That's real grace!

just-us-2 · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

atwhatcost said:

No problem, sister. I have been known to be misunderstood before. LOL! You aren’t the first and won’t be the last, I’m sure. Thank you for the encouragement.
I appreciate your sympathy and you have my sympathies as well. The very first thread I posted in cc was about women and it unleashed a fierceness that shocked me. I was appalled at how nasty people could be and didn’t post again for a long time as I licked my wounds and recuperated. Since then I have posted a little. The threads I have started have been to share things I learned as I studied – just to share and help others – but they were usually attacked as if I was trying to force my beliefs down everyone’s throat. So, I tend to back off and forget about cc for a while. Then sure enough, someone asks that I post something I shared with them and the cycle starts again. I do seem to be recuperating more quickly now and that is due to God’s grace. It happened like this:
Being an observer of several different conversations between Christians, where neither party could see the other’s point, showed me something I had often wondered about. I questioned why people couldn’t seem to follow another’s explanation of a given subject. The situation usually led to anger and sometimes, a parting of ways.
I realized then that people have very strongly embedded, preconceived ideas, or predetermined definitions of certain words (such as prodigal, for example), in their minds. This prevents them from learning and growing closer to God. It is easy to see this in others when they have an opinion, a belief about how some spiritual principle is and they just will not let go of it or even back off long enough to see the other person’s point.
Sad but true, this “irregularity” is much more difficult to see in ourselves. So, I asked Adonai, in all sincerity, to show me if I was holding on to some preconceived idea or favorite principle or belief that was retarding my quest to better know and have the mind of Christ as scripture tells us we should.
As often happens, He opened my eyes to an unexpected aspect of that principle of which I was guilty. And as was the case with some other lessons He taught me, this was also rather humiliating.
It was a terrible day – emotionally strenuous and exhausting. But by evening, I realized that in spite of feeling emotionally drained and worn out, God had answered my prayer of a day or two before, to show me anything in myself that I may not recognize as a hindrance to my spiritual growth – having the mind of Christ – becoming more Christ like, etc.
He showed me that my inferiority complex – my habit of thinking I am less intelligent, usually wrong, a bother to others, useless for anything substantial, and therefore less valuable (at the slightest provocation), hinders God’s working in me and through me to accomplish His plans for using me for His glory.
It is quite humiliating to have to admit all of this but it will help someone else, and that makes it worth it. The bottom line is this: to allow an “inferiority complex” to shape one’s self image is NOT the humility we are told to have as imitators of Christ. It is an exaggeration of the word “humble” which makes it a distortion. Therefore, it is sin. It is sin because that is not how God sees us.
I wonder how many other traits we Christians have that don’t pop out as blatantly sinful.

just-me · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

Several months ago there was a die-hard non-Messianic Jew that posted on this forum. I think his user name was Seliah, or something like that. I do remember him contributing to the thread a person had started about the feasts. I was in the process of writing a book about the feast of unleavened bread, the feast of weeks, and the feast of tabernacles, and how it fit in and related to the New Covenant through Christ Jesus. As time went on we conversed to a small extent, and I found that his favorite scripture was out of Deuteronomy, (The Jews say it different " Devarim") I thought about what Paul said concerning becoming as that is "under the law" to gain them that are "under the law", so I began relating to his outlook, as best as I could, concerning the aspects of what I knew about the law God gave to Israel via Moses. I had high hopes that I could be enlightened by him as well as me proving to him, through scriptures that he knew well, that Jesus Christ was the true awaited Messiah for the non-Messianic law abiding Jew. I had some enlightenment through conversations with Rabbis in Israel by then. It seemed to be progressing in a positive way, but it was short lived, for he was gone after only one or two times of trading thoughts. I don't know the reason. It made me sad.

psychomom · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

atwhatcost said:

physician, heal thyself?

just-me · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

psychomom said:

Where can I find that? Do you have a verse in the Bible to direct me to? Aha! I found it!
Luke 4:20-23
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

crossnote · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-me said:

Just curious, what kind of 'enlightenment' did you receive from the rabbis in Israel? Most of their writings I have read have been very deceptive Scripture twisting when it came to Messianic Prophecies found in the OT. If I can't trust them on that point I'd be wary of their deceptions on other points. Or were these Messianic Rabbis?

psychomom · May 14, 2015

Re: How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

just-me said:

well, you know, i meant it more in its idiomatic sense.

but wouldn't you know the 'beloved physician' would include that proverb in his book?

How Should Christians Treat Those Who Seem To Want To Be "Under The Law"?

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