A Jew is not one outwardly, but inward

[fredjames]

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


The whole context of this is Israel...not the Church. It is a comparison between natural Israel which had faith in the promise and natural Israel without faith. The former is the true Israel....and so on and so forth.

What about these my 'sleeping children in CHRIST', in your own conceits and in 'vain testimonies' of partial Truth and 'heart harden' as well, to move on further in chapters and learn the complete 'context' about Israel's Salvation 'irrevocable' and the cautioning of people like yous liable to be 'cut off' from that 'tree?

Romans 11;

25. Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.
26. And in this way all Israel will bw saved , as it is written, "The deliverer will come from Zion, HE will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27. "and this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins."
28. As regards the Gospel, they are enemies of GOD for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
29. For the gifts and the calling of GOD are irrevocable.
30. Just as you were at one time disobedient to GOD but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
31. so they too now have been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
32. For GOD has consigned all to disobedience, that HE may have mercy on all.
33. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of GOD! How unsearchable are HIS judgements and how inscrutable HIS ways!
34. "For who has known the mind of the LORD, or who has been HIS counselor?"
35. Or who has given a gift to HIM that he might be repaid?"
36. For from HIM and through HIM are all things. To HIM be Glory forever. Amen.

 

[passing_through]

Maybe you would like these verses better....

Galatians 3:27-29[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[FONT=Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Not his natural but his spiritual seed - Children of faith. Supplanting the Jews is not the debt we owe them and not honoring Christ.

[/FONT]17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[passing_through]

I am not, never was, and never shall be a Jew. God covenants with Israel are eternal and they are still intact. I will always be a wild Olive branch grafted into natural branch join to the root - Christ forever.
It could be that the doctrine that Christians are magically turn into Spiritual Jew is a covert attack by Satan against the Jews.

 

[crossnote]

What about these my 'sleeping children in CHRIST', in your own conceits and in 'vain testimonies' of partial Truth and 'heart harden' as well, to move on further in chapters and learn the complete 'context' about Israel's Salvation 'irrevocable' and the cautioning of people like yous liable to be 'cut off' from that 'tree?

Romans 11;

25. Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.
26. And in this way all Israel will bw saved , as it is written, "The deliverer will come from Zion, HE will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27. "and this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins."
28. As regards the Gospel, they are enemies of GOD for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
29. For the gifts and the calling of GOD are irrevocable.
30. Just as you were at one time disobedient to GOD but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
31. so they too now have been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
32. For GOD has consigned all to disobedience, that HE may have mercy on all.
33. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of GOD! How unsearchable are HIS judgements and how inscrutable HIS ways!
34. "For who has known the mind of the LORD, or who has been HIS counselor?"
35. Or who has given a gift to HIM that he might be repaid?"
36. For from HIM and through HIM are all things. To HIM be Glory forever. Amen.

I'm moved to tears...lol

 

[passing_through]

I'm moved to tears...lol

Me three, is he a prophet.

 

[sltaylor]

The seed is REGARDED AS Abraham's descendants. The natural children are not regarded as heirs, that is those born according to the flesh, the ordinary way of childbirth, those are Hagar's children, who are in slavery still to this very day, he says that in the very next chapter when symbolizing Sarah and Hagar. And I know it's not just about what we call Israel cause he says 'you BROTHERS, LIKE ISAAC ARE that seed", any one in Christ is the seed and heir according to the promise, scripture is crystal clear on that, such a man's praise comes not from men but God, his spirit IS THE DEPOSIT GUARANTEEING WHAT IS TO COME, that spirit is God's seal of approval people. That is a child of promise, that is God's praise for man, that through his son, salvation comes to all who believe.

That's why it appeared the word had failed, because they didn't 'LISTEN' to the shepherd, remember Jesus said I gave them your words and they HATED THEM, but to those that did listen to the light shining in the darkness, he gave the right to BECOME GOD'S CHILDREN. And it is those born by the spirit, the children of Promise, like Isaac, who meet all these qualifications, and are regarded as God's children. That key word is regarded. Abraham is the father of us all, yet it is only through Christ and being born of the spirit, those that LISTENED TO THE SHEPHERD, is one regarded as an heir and the seed, who is Christ and those who belong to him.

God's call is irrevocable, but to say anyone is saved and enters to heaven without going through the gate is ridiculous. And to say that once this ISRAEL enters into the tree, which they must, and to say there is a difference in poeples once they do, guys, that is just wrong as well, because in Christ their is no difference. Paul clearly stated they must cease their unbelief, and we who are grafted should remain in God's kindness and not follow their unbelief and remain in the tree.
No man should boast over anyone, but every man should put the emphasis on Christ, because apart from Christ no one is saved or chosen, yet in Christ, you receive every promise. It's not about a piece piece of land or geneology or anything, thats what the Jews of Paul's day got wrapped up in, it's about being found in Christ period.

The children born again, are born by the spirit, that is not a birth 'in the ordinary way', being born again is the only thing that makes one the seed and REGARDED BY GOD as his offspring and an heir according to the promise, because that is what brings honor to himself through the son, because to be born by the spirit, well that means tou believed what the Son said. That makes you the seed and heir to the pasturing on the heights of Israel.

But this is not an earthly thing, Jesus is the gate for the flock, we enter through him and go out and find 'pasture', and when he spoke of himself being the gate, he was talking about entering the kingdom of heaven. So you have to put the pieces togehter, the flock enters the sheep pen through the gate, and he was talking about heaven.

He is the shepherd of his flock, one flock.
He is the gate for the sheep to enter the sheep pen,
He was talking about his Kigdom which was not of this Earth.

You read Ezekiel and Isaiah and Jeremiah, all these prophecies they had when Jesus walked among them, and they just could not understand how it was these prophets were talking about a heavenly place. They mocked him, they said we have the prophets this our land Jesus, and he told them all I came to fulfill the prophets. They mocked, we are heirs they said, we have Abraham as our father, and what did Jesus say....he said IF Abraham was your father, you would have believed me. That one statement should prove who GOD regarded as Abrahams children, its those who LISTEN TO THE SHEPHERDS VOICE, the sheep know his voice, and he made one flock amd leads them out to pasture.

When Jesus talked about the shepherd and the sheep, that's Ezekiel 34. When he talked about his kingdom being above, THAT'S Isaiah 54,60,65, 66.

Take your eyes off what is below, those children are Hagars children. Yes the Earthly Israel will be saved, yes his call is irrevocable, yes the armies of the Earth will rise against her, and all this happens AFTER Israel is made envious.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Not his natural but his spiritual seed - Children of faith. Supplanting the Jews is not the debt we owe them and not honoring Christ.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Who is supplanting the Jews, not honoring Christ and boasting? I posted scripture only, is scripture boasting? Perhaps your eye is evil to think evil of those who post scripture?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

inward, spiritual Jew = Christian [Rom 2:28,29]
Spiritual Israel = church [Gal 6:16]

Wrong. We have become part of Israel. They have not become us.

So if we cross reference this with Galatians 3, are we just reading one huge contradiction?

The Galatians were mixing faith in Christ with the Law, in violation of the basic tenet of the Bible that can be boiled down to "Jesus + nothing = salvation."

Israel's salvation is also through faith alone. "Abram believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness" (genesis 15:6, NASB). The Law convicts and destroys. Jesus Christ redeems and saves. The latter is exactly what Abram believed, even without knowing the name of Jesus or the title of Christ. Thus was all of Israel saved, or not. Replacement theologists make a huge mistake in thinking otherwise, and in believing that disobedience separated Israel -- or us, for that matter -- from God.

Disobedience is part of still living in the flesh for all of God's children. Grace keeps us in Him despite that disobedience.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It could be that the doctrine that Christians are magically turn into Spiritual Jew is a covert attack by Satan against the Jews.

So if according to scripture a Jew is not one who is outward by flesh and blood appearance, but inward in the heart by the Spirit, how then would you know them if not as a spiritual Jew?

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Disobedience is part of still living in the flesh for all of God's children. Grace keeps us in Him despite that disobedience.

That is a big fat lie.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

[ . . . ]Disobedience is part of still living in the flesh for all of God's children. Grace keeps us in Him despite that disobedience.

That is a big fat lie.

No, it is this miserable effort to make Romans 8:13 deny that truth, lifting Scripture out of context, that is the big fat lie.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

First off, let's deal with a good translation of the verse, since the KJV's rendering leaves what Paul is saying uncertain.

Romans 8, NASB
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.​

The Greek zao (zao), translated "living" in the NASB -- and the same word the KJV poorly translates merely "live" -- is a verb in the perfect present tense indicating an ongoing action, repeated many times, meaning not just living, but a manner of living and acting as to character. In other words, spoken faith without evidence thereof. You and others lie every time you make claim to the possibility of living a life of sinlessness.

No Christian has ever done so, no Christian ever will. Living in Christ is a matter of being, not doing. It is the condition of the heart, which will naturally result in a new attitude toward sin, an attitude that doesn't excuse it, but deals with it through confession, repentance, and surrendering to Christ in order to see that sin removed.

And you deny God's grace by claiming what I posted was a lie. That's a very dangerous position to be in, don't you think?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Wrong. We have become part of Israel. They have not become us.

The Galatians were mixing faith in Christ with the Law, in violation of the basic tenet of the Bible that can be boiled down to "Jesus + nothing = salvation."

Israel's salvation is also through faith alone. "Abram believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness" (genesis 15:6, NASB). The Law convicts and destroys. Jesus Christ redeems and saves. The latter is exactly what Abram believed, even without knowing the name of Jesus or the title of Christ. Thus was all of Israel saved, or not. Replacement theologists make a huge mistake in thinking otherwise, and in believing that disobedience separated Israel -- or us, for that matter -- from God.

Disobedience is part of still living in the flesh for all of God's children. Grace keeps us in Him despite that disobedience.

Great post, as usual, Vigilant Warrior. And thanks again for the mega emoticon, that just keeps giving!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You are only deceiving yourself if you think Grace is a license to sin, that is a very dangerous doctrine and position to be in. Repent!

 

[JesusIsAll]

No, it is this miserable effort to make Romans 8:13 deny that truth, lifting Scripture out of context, that is the big fat lie.

"We don't need no stinking Romans 7!" Wish they'd post a YouTube video, showing how they put their pants on.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

"We don't need no stinking Romans 7!" Wish they'd post a YouTube video, showing how they put their pants on.

Personally, I always figured they just materialized over their legs and butt, each morning, like clockwork.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Personally, I always figured they just materialized over their legs and butt, each morning, like clockwork.

I sometimes get envious. It would be nice to be able to take a long trip, without needing to go to the bathroom.

 

[sltaylor]

Great post, as usual, Vigilant Warrior. And thanks again for the mega emoticon, that just keeps giving!

I think disobedience is different that unbelief. We all struggle with sin that waged war against our minds. By BELIEF AND GRACE, we now have a mediator who speaks on our behalf. Without such belief there in no mediator. Without belief, one is not a branch one the tree.

Belief in the son is demanded, sin is forgiven. We do not have a licence to sin, but no man can escape the sin in the flesh waging war against what the spirit desires. We are told to put to death the flesh yes, but to say one in Christ will never sin again is wrong. By belief there is a mediator on our behalf if and when we do mess up, that doesn't mean we can just go about doing as we want though.

Paul spoke of hoping to arouse envy in his people by his message, because Israel had to be MADE ENVIOUS. HIS message was that the only thing that mattered is being found in Christ, there is no difference, being found in Christ and knowing him so one could receive the glories that follow, well Paul said that is all that mattered.

In Christ one is regarded as the seed and an heir according to the promise, that was his message that he hoped would bring Israel to envy, receiving the promise spoken to Abraham comes no other way.

God knows who from Israel and the Gentiles are his. But those two terms don't exist once one becomes the seed in Christ and grafted on the tree, and that only comes by believing the shepherd, and the only ones who can do that is the flock He feeds, the two different sheep pens who become just one flock with just one shepherd, and are then led to pasture through the gate. Both are just very plainly a new CREATION in Christ, the old is gone the new has come, that is the child of promise and the seed and heir in Christ according to the promise.

To say God will honor one over the other in Christ is like saying one will have a greater honor in the kingdom of heaven. Such a thing doesn't exist, whomever humbles himself like a child is the greatest, not who was born as a certain race is the greatest.

 

[DesiredHaven]

I wonder if we can see some comparisons with the lie

For example, take it from the top in Romans 2 (follow it through) to Romans 3 and compare what he is is speaking about (Jews as he himself was) and how he is speaking through through the lie (which he had just prior cleared up in relation to the same) and take that same wording and find it in revelation in accord, seems to fit.

Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which isoutward in the flesh:

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In light of what he just said (above) in chapter 2 he asks into chapter 3 in respects to the same...

Saying,

Romans 3:1What advantage then hath the Jew?

or what profit is there of circumcision?

Romans 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

He as a Jew is reasoning as a Jew might in respect to what advantage have they (given all that was said about Jews) and he adds,

"I speak like a man" (in verse 5) but he continues...

Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am Ialso judged as a sinner?

See the Jews lie thing here?

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,
whichsay they are Jews, and are not,but do lie;
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Which again seems to indicate what they understood concerning it which Paul says (in accordance with the context of his own Jewishness) which he adresses as through my lie

Because he wrote (just repeating here)

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which isoutward in the flesh:

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

But in light of that, as Jesus speaks to Jews, he says here this,

Rev 3:9... which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;

Okay but who is? Paul answers...

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly

And in the context of the same Paul says,

Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

So there is a Jew (outwards) children after the flesh (seed of Abraham) but not the children of promise as that is By Jesus Christ (Abrhams seed) as of one (verses many) such as Israelites after the flesh (of which Paul was of) his kinsmen according to the flesh.

 

[DesiredHaven]

So if according to scripture a Jew is not one who is outward by flesh and blood appearance, but inward in the heart by the Spirit, how then would you know them if not as a spiritual Jew?

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;

They have DNA tests to know which is a Jew inwardly, no?

 

[DesiredHaven]

Oops, I should have said "biopsy" if a chunk of the heart must be tested (and examined) for inward Jewishness