Attracting Someone, Manipulating Someone, and Convincing Someone?

[Calmador]

Imagine if you were interested in someone, often times, you may want to be more positive around that person... more friendly... more open or accepting of the person. You put your best leg out...

Couldn't that be considered manipulating? It's clear if you think of a player who is charming a woman. So, there's definitely a wrong way to attract a woman. However, isn't the fundamental reason a player charms/attracts a woman for his selfish desires?

Keeping that idea in mind... couldn't that be more general and could include more people in the sin besides the typical player?

For example, I could be attracting to a Godly woman and think to myself... She sure is wonderful and go on to charm/attract her because of prideful reasons such as self-entitlement. I deserve her... I'm going to tell a good joke, smile more, and say something intriguing to get to her.

I guess I sort of answered my own question... well, it's still worth thinking about I think and maybe some people who read this might gain something from this thread. Anyways to be frank... I still struggle with it even though it "seems" I have it figured out. I just don't want to trick anyone to like me.

Thoughts?

 

[Shouryu]

If you're doing that willingly, yeah, it's definitely dishonest, and smacks of manipulation. On the other hand...

Sometimes, the right person brings out a better version of you, without you even trying or doing anything. ^_^

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

As with ANY sin... the intent of the heart is what makes it a sin, not necessarily the action itself. In things like this, I'd advise praying and going with the Spirit's conviction on the matter.

Just make sure it is true conviction from God, and not a shaming condemnation from satan, you know? That's where it can get confusing.

 

[Roh_Chris]

If you're doing that willingly, yeah, it's definitely dishonest, and smacks of manipulation. On the other hand...

Sometimes, the right person brings out a better version of you, without you even trying or doing anything. ^_^

Ahem. Has anyone Shouryu sounding jovial and fun, lately?

In response to the OP -

Everyone has a good side and a bad side in them (though, as Christians, we ought to work on eliminating the bad side.. but I digress). It is okay if that special someone brings out the good in you but if you are trying to hide the bad because you don't want him/her to see it, then you are being dishonest.

 

[cinder]

Imagine if you were interested in someone, often times, you may want to be more positive around that person... more friendly... more open or accepting of the person. You put your best leg out...

Couldn't that be considered manipulating? It's clear if you think of a player who is charming a woman. So, there's definitely a wrong way to attract a woman. However, isn't the fundamental reason a player charms/attracts a woman for his selfish desires?

Keeping that idea in mind... couldn't that be more general and could include more people in the sin besides the typical player?

For example, I could be attracting to a Godly woman and think to myself... She sure is wonderful and go on to charm/attract her because of prideful reasons such as self-entitlement. I deserve her... I'm going to tell a good joke, smile more, and say something intriguing to get to her.

I guess I sort of answered my own question... well, it's still worth thinking about I think and maybe some people who read this might gain something from this thread. Anyways to be frank... I still struggle with it even though it "seems" I have it figured out. I just don't want to trick anyone to like me.

Thoughts?

Well I guess I'm seeing this as a question of what are the right or wrong ways to influence people. In the case of being attracted to (or attracting) someone, well I think sincerity and authenticity are pretty important. Nothing wrong with putting your best foot forward. Something goes wrong when you start trying to appear to be someone you are not (either by hiding your bad side and your faults or by repeatedly doing things you don't want to do to try to build common ground that isn't there with someone). Something also goes wrong if you start to view the attraction or potential attraction in terms of what you can get out of it and forget that there is a living feeling person on the other side of it.

If you do your best to be authentic, there's no tricking people into liking you. They may have the wrong impression of the person you are, but you can't control the impression other people form of you. And the crazy thing is, sometimes no matter how weird it seems, you run into someone who truly generally does seem to like you.

 

[Ariel82]

What does God say?

 

[Desdichado]

I'm with Shouryu. You're probably over-thinking.

That and there is a big difference between deceiving and emphasizing your positive characteristics, not the negative ones.

 

[CatHerder]

If you're doing that willingly, yeah, it's definitely dishonest, and smacks of manipulation. On the other hand...

Sometimes, the right person brings out a better version of you, without you even trying or doing anything. ^_^

I was going to say this. Shour stole my answer!

 

[PoetMary]

Imagine if you were interested in someone, often times, you may want to be more positive around that person... more friendly... more open or accepting of the person. You put your best leg out...

Couldn't that be considered manipulating? It's clear if you think of a player who is charming a woman. So, there's definitely a wrong way to attract a woman. However, isn't the fundamental reason a player charms/attracts a woman for his selfish desires?

Keeping that idea in mind... couldn't that be more general and could include more people in the sin besides the typical player?

For example, I could be attracting to a Godly woman and think to myself... She sure is wonderful and go on to charm/attract her because of prideful reasons such as self-entitlement. I deserve her... I'm going to tell a good joke, smile more, and say something intriguing to get to her.

I guess I sort of answered my own question... well, it's still worth thinking about I think and maybe some people who read this might gain something from this thread. Anyways to be frank... I still struggle with it even though it "seems" I have it figured out. I just don't want to trick anyone to like me.

Thoughts?

If you want to get technical, most human interaction involves some level of manipulation.

The bible says, "A soft answer turns away wrath." So, you say something tacky to me...maybe even something designed to push my buttons and start and argument, but I give a "soft answer." I have just manipulated the situation to avoid an argument. However, most people wouldn't view this as a negative.

Truthfully, a lot of people use other people to meet their own needs without considering the needs of their partner. Even people we'd call "nice," or "good Christians" do this. In fact, most people approach dating from a utilitarian stand point--What can this person do for me and my life? They may argue that they have things that they'll be bringing to the table (I'm fit, I'm educated, I have a good sense of humor, etc.) However, you almost never hear people say, "I was so drawn to PersonX because I realized how much I could serve him/her."

So, ya know, people like to be really sharp about those they consider to be "players." I will say, however, in my life experience, it's been the "nice guys" who've been less honest and more hurtful. Primarily because they lacked the insight to admit that they were playing with the emotions of others for their own gratification.

 

[mystdancer50]

If I like a guy, I clam up and can't be anything but quiet around him. So, if he likes quiet and docile women, he'd think, "Score!" and be completely and totally wrong. I am loud and talkative and rebellious and vocal and strong willed...so, would that be manipulation? I wonder. I never really thought about it like that. But, as others have said, if it was on purpose, sure. Otherwise, it's just false impressions by error.

Ultimately, though, he'd find out the "real" me and, well, if not interested, no harm, no foul, right?

 

[Misty77]

It's not manipulative if you are inspired to make positive changes in your life. It's a problem if you are portraying yourself to be something that you are not.

 

[Shouryu]

If I like a guy, I clam up and can't be anything but quiet around him. So, if he likes quiet and docile women, he'd think, "Score!" and be completely and totally wrong. I am loud and talkative and rebellious and vocal and strong willed...so, would that be manipulation? I wonder. I never really thought about it like that. But, as others have said, if it was on purpose, sure. Otherwise, it's just false impressions by error.

Ultimately, though, he'd find out the "real" me and, well, if not interested, no harm, no foul, right?

HOLY SNAP! Julie's back! Hi Julie! *waves*

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

What's wrong with manipulation? Animals do it all the time to attract a mate. Commercials do it to advertise and encourage buying, which is good for the economy (even if most commercials are annoying). God has manipulated countless people and events for His will for the greater good.

Manipulation can be used for ill will, but the word doesn't have to be put strictly to a negative context, intentional or not.

 

[Nick01]

All human interaction is manipulation at some level. Babies manipulate the heck out of their parents daily, mostly by being cute, which offsets all the terrible things babies do.

There is nothing wrong with manipulating at that level, in the sense that you act a certain way, emphasising some qualities and deemphasising other, or acting a certain way because you know someone will respond more favourably to that.

The real questions are:

Can you be honest about how you act? If the other person asked you how you feel, or why you're acting a certain away, what would you tell them?

and

Why are you 'manipulating'? Is it for some nefarious purpose, is it purely for your own benefit, or what?

 

[Calmador]

Thanks everyone for the answers, they helped a lot.

If you want to get technical, most human interaction involves some level of manipulation.

The bible says, "A soft answer turns away wrath." So, you say something tacky to me...maybe even something designed to push my buttons and start and argument, but I give a "soft answer." I have just manipulated the situation to avoid an argument. However, most people wouldn't view this as a negative.

Truthfully, a lot of people use other people to meet their own needs without considering the needs of their partner. Even people we'd call "nice," or "good Christians" do this. In fact, most people approach dating from a utilitarian stand point--What can this person do for me and my life? They may argue that they have things that they'll be bringing to the table (I'm fit, I'm educated, I have a good sense of humor, etc.) However, you almost never hear people say, "I was so drawn to PersonX because I realized how much I could serve him/her."

So, ya know, people like to be really sharp about those they consider to be "players." I will say, however, in my life experience, it's been the "nice guys" who've been less honest and more hurtful. Primarily because they lacked the insight to admit that they were playing with the emotions of others for their own gratification.

I think there's two kind's of influence

The good kind and the evil kind.

And I think maybe you might have a different definition of manipulation. Some posters seem to see it as influencing for evil reasons and maybe you see it as... just influencing people or the situation.

Either way, I think reading the posts above... there's a right way to influence someone and a wrong way. The question is why are you influencing the person? Sinful reasons? To help the person?

And hey you might not hear people say, " "I was so drawn to PersonX because I realized how much I could serve him/her." but Godly Christians will serve each other.

There's nothing wrong with looking for a spouse that can meet your needs in a marriage. After all, a spouse is suppose to meet your needs and its a life commitment. So, its a pretty big decision. At the same time, we should meet our spouses needs.

You have look after yourself AND look after others as-well.

 

[Calmador]

Again, thanks for the posts people.

What's wrong with manipulation? Animals do it all the time to attract a mate. Commercials do it to advertise and encourage buying, which is good for the economy (even if most commercials are annoying). God has manipulated countless people and events for His will for the greater good.

Manipulation can be used for ill will, but the word doesn't have to be put strictly to a negative context, intentional or not.

It depends on how people use the word manipulation. As you can see in the posts above... some see manipulation with a bad connotation of just being a jerk/lying for evil reasons. You and I'm sure other people see manipulation as just influencing people.

In my OP I was using manipulation as influencing people in an evil context. I think I'm good now though.. thanks for your input.

 

[secularhermit]

Few days back I found a letter I had in my messy box... It is from 2012 and I started to write to that woman becasue she said "she needed friends" and, by the 1st letter she said it clear: She was looking for someone that may serve her to fall in love and get married...

OK! She is in Las Vegas, a prison there but, the only thing I disliked is that way to place a hook and, as you said, what would a man think when he sees a leg shown? (That´s my chance!) While she could be playing her games to see WHO she picks as the best choice.

Men and women are alike! we have done the same and, in next decades, that story will be the same, for all ppl.

It´s up for each person to follow up, or to leave at time to avoid those future problems.

PS

Why Men Marry Some Women & Not Others: The 'Reasons' Will Shock You | The Stir

 

[Nick01]

In my OP I was using manipulation as influencing people in an evil context. I think I'm good now though.. thanks for your input.

Just so we're clear - making yourself more attractive/funnier/whatever than usual is not 'evil manipulation'. That's just what happens.

And yes, at one level, being in a relationship is self serving. Christian relationships should be other person centered, but that doesn't mean you get nothing out of it - if you didn't, no one would be in a relationship, or want to be in one, because what would be the point?! Instead, being in a relationship would be like jury duty - random lottery to find out who gets the job of keeping the human race going, essentially

The point is not whether or not you are doing something for selfish reasons. It is much more about whether you are doing it for ONLY selfish reasons.

 

[skylove7]

If you're doing that willingly, yeah, it's definitely dishonest, and smacks of manipulation. On the other hand...

Sometimes, the right person brings out a better version of you, without you even trying or doing anything. ^_^

Very nice Sho! I'm reppin ya for thisssss!

 

[wisebeardman]

I am just me, like me or not I could care less.