OSAS doctrine denies the faith

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Jul 22, 2014
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#61
Why does this issue come up daily, on dozens of threads, in various incantations? Confess with your mouth in Jesus and believe God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. Please STOP dividing the brethern! Preach that Gospel and tell people how Jesus and the Holy Spirit has been working in YOUR life. THAT is what resonates with unbelievers
Preaching that one can "sin and still be saved" is preaching another Jesus. So it is not a matter of causing division.

However, there will be a different type of separation or division, though.

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;" (Matthew 13:41). And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (verse 42).

To me, this passage is clearly saying that believers who claim to be of His Kingdom who work sin or iniquity will be gathered by the angels and separated from those who are faithful. How on Earth the OSAS proponent understands this verse, I have absolutely no clue.

 
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Mar 12, 2014
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#62
Yeah keep believing that...you will end up with the man you follow....I will be more than glad to wait and see who makes it....I trust Jesus and the words of Jesus....If you believe that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved....You on the other hand follow your COC doctrine and your daddy Alexander Campbell!
A typical post of your......when you cannot defend you heretical doctrine you just make personal attacks along with name calling.

Repent of your heresies.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#63
Scripture proves you wrong....

But then they might say, well they were never really born again of the Holy Spirit. But the words of God covers that as well in Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Why don't you put that in context there slick.....and actually read what is being said in light of the context....written unto people like you...Jews who were saved by grace and wanted to go back to an inferior way...mixing law with grace or in your case works with grace.....like Paul said...fools!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#64
A typical post of your......when you cannot defend you heretical doctrine you just make personal attacks along with name calling.

Repent of your heresies.
Personal attack? I don't think so...more like facts...shall I go find the post where you bragged about being a COC member for x amount of years....you follow men...period and one of your forefathers was Alexander Campbell....simple truths and facts...why are you so afraid to admit the truth...you ashamed of your roots?
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#65


Why? Why? Why?? Why do you let yourselves fall for a thread deliberately titled with a provocative moniker for the sole purpose of raising your ire, reeling you in, and relieving you of your sanity temporarily?

Eternal security is biblical truth, period. Anyone who would post yet another dumb thread arguing a point that has been done to death is not your brother in Christ. He is a deceiver, a stuff-stirrer, a factious man. And what did Paul tell us of such men?

Titus 3, NASB
10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.​

InSpiritInTruth -- and ironic screen name, given he preaches neither -- used up his first and second warnings about 15 minutes after he joined this board.

He doesn't do this to "edify" anyone. He doesn't do it even thinking he will convince just one person to change his/her mind.

He does it to stir up strife. And again, Paul warns us:

1 Timothy 6
3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.​

Ask yourself, what is it ISIT gains from this divisiveness? Ask yourself, what do you gain when you respond?

Answer those questions honestly, and he will have no one left with whom to argue.
 
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JesusIsAll

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#66
Acts 8:12,13 says both Samaritans and Simon believed and were baptized per Christ's own words of Mk 16;16. So they were in a saved position or Christ lied. Simon then tried to buy the power of the HS and Peter told Simon "thy money perish (present tense) with thee, v20, perish, apoleia meaning to be lost. Peter commands Simon "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." which would be utter nonsense to command this to Simon if it were impossible for Simon to do such.
You're not a Christian, at all, if you're not born again of the Holy Spirit. You're only showing that you just don't get a Sunday School gospel truth.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#67
The doctrine of OSAS denies the faith by denying the words of God, which is denying Jesus Christ the very Word of God. Let me explain.

It is written by Grace you are saved through faith, and also in Romans 5:2 “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. As it is also written, the children of faith are counted for the seed. And we see in Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Just as it is written the just shall live by faith, and we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ, which is also faith in the very Word of God. Just as Jesus said
Matthew 4:4 “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Just as we are to abide in Christ, and in His words by faith.

And this is where the
lies of OSAS doctrine begins to be exposed for what it is, which is not of faith in what Gods words say are true.


Not many Christians will argue against salvation not being based on Grace through faith and belief in Jesus Christ. But some believe that faith is not connected or expressed in our own actions or any works on our part. And some even believe one cannot lose that salvation by faith no matter what, leaving the notion wide open that one can
sin without any consequence of losing salvation.


This is what Jude warned of in
Jude 1:4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”


But if you do not abide in the obedience of the faith, but in unbelief, then how can you please God? After all were not the branches of Israel broken off because of unbelief?


Romans 11:20-22 “
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”


That sure sounds like a
warning to abide in faith doesn’t it? For we stand by faith, but some say you cannot fall.


Abiding in that faith means abiding in the faith of Jesus, but also abiding in His words by faith, meaning every God breathed word spoken by the Holy Spirit. But again, the
error of OSAS denies the words of God by saying you cannot fall from salvation, which is based on faith. But some will say, well if they fall they were never really saved in the first place. But go back to the definition of what saved means in scripture, which is by grace through faith.


But then they might say, well they were never really born again of the Holy Spirit. But the words of God covers that as well in Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth
thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”


But many will deny these words are true. They will try to twist it’s meaning by saying it is out of context, or a poor translation, or it’s not directed to us, or it’s not in the original text, or your interpreting the scriptures wrong, blah, blah, blah.

But folks, these verses are a
warning for those who turn back, and fall away from the faith.

And those who deny those Holy Spirit inspired words, also deny there is to even be a falling away from the faith. And to deny the words of God, is to deny Jesus Christ. Be not deceived by the doctrines of devils.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
Are you stating someone can lose their salvation for ANY failure to live a righteous life by not doing things like reading the Bible, praying and going to church?

-OR-

Are you stating a person can walk away from the faith by denying the Lord Jesus Christ?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#68
Preaching that one can "sin and still be saved" is preaching another Jesus. So it is not a matter of causing division.

However, there will be a different type of separation or division, though.

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;" (Matthew 13:41). And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (verse 42).

To me, this passage is clearly saying that believers who claim to be of His Kingdom who work sin or iniquity will be gathered by the angels and separated from those who are faithful. How on Earth the OSAS proponent understands this verse, I have absolutely no clue.

Here we go again...so by your words you are lost.....you have admitted you (slip up and sin) you admitted that you are not perfect (yet) so you openly admit your lost right?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#70
Personal attack? I don't think so...more like facts...shall I go find the post where you bragged about being a COC member for x amount of years....you follow men...period and one of your forefathers was Alexander Campbell....simple truths and facts...why are you so afraid to admit the truth...you ashamed of your roots?

You make personal attacks, nothing more in trying to bring the worst out of people on this forum.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#71
You make personal attacks, nothing more in trying to bring the worst out of people on this forum.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Personal attack? I don't think so...more like facts...shall I go find the post where you bragged about being a COC member for x amount of years....you follow men...period and one of your forefathers was Alexander Campbell....simple truths and facts...why are you so afraid to admit the truth...you ashamed of your roots?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#72
You're not a Christian, at all, if you're not born again of the Holy Spirit. You're only showing that you just don't get a Sunday School gospel truth.
Acts 8:13 says Simon believed and was baptized which saves according to Christ's own words. Simon was born again when he believed and was baptized.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#73
I dont know how someone might consider 1 Ti 5:8 in respects to disobedience and denying the faith, but there is (in that) becoming worse then an infidel could play in but there is professing to know God and being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate Titus 1:16. Im not sure how the doctrines of each camp deal various scriptures though
You made me look that up, you know my policy. :)

Titus 1:16[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That's right, and denying the words of God is also denying the faith.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#74
I dont know how someone might consider 1 Ti 5:8 in respects to disobedience and denying the faith, but there is (in that) becoming worse then an infidel could play in but there is professing to know God and being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate Titus 1:16. Im not sure how the doctrines of each camp deal various scriptures though
If one does not provide (ie. serve) those whom they profess to love (especially immediate family) that one has obviously denied the faith which is established upon love. Such a person professing to be a Christian is worse than an infidel because of the hypocrisy involved and thus ought to be rebuked openly before the congregation. It is a very serious matter for sin service to be found in the church, not only for the dire state of the individual involved but for the effect it will have on those around them (ie. it draws others into sin).

Being disobedient unto every good work is simply an allusion to professed righteousness. A good example would be a Christian charity worker who is still engaged in all manner of vile sin in secret. Israel was serves us as an example of such in the words of Isaiah...

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

A statement Jesus referred to in...

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Mat 15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

The issue that matters is the hearts of men. If one has an appearance of righteousness outwardly but whose heart is still corrupt then the appearance of righteousness means nothing, nothing at all. The appearance of righteousness is simply a witness to hypocrisy. At least an open sinner, without an appearance of righteousness, is not hiding something and is thus less likely to be self deceived when confronted with the truth.

A pure heart is intrinsically connected to a genuine faith. No pure heart = no genuine faith, for genuine faith purifies the heart (Act 15:9).
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#75
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Personal attack? I don't think so...more like facts...shall I go find the post where you bragged about being a COC member for x amount of years....you follow men...period and one of your forefathers was Alexander Campbell....simple truths and facts...why are you so afraid to admit the truth...you ashamed of your roots?
I am a member of the church of Christ. I do not follow Campbell nor have I ever read anything he may have written. You seem to know more about him than I do. I quote from the BIBLE to prove my points, not Campbell, for the bible is the repository of truth, not Campbell. Yourself and some others here only bring up the name Campbell for you find yourselves on the losing end of debate after debate and the name calling you do is an old debate tactic that never works for it proves nothing more than you have no valid argument.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#76
You act as one who has never experienced grace. You speak as one who does not know Gods grace.

It is the grace of God that saves. You either trust Gods grace or you trust yourself. Gods grace needs no help from you as Gods grace is wholly sufficient to save and those whom God has saved He seals with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

Thing is that those who deny Gods ability to save substitute themselves as more important than trusting God to do what He has promised. Go ahead and trust yourself as for me I'm going to trust God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Remember it's grace through faith...we need to participate in that faith by believing His words. :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#77
Your trying to make this out to be a salvation by works argument, that is a straw man tactic to misrepresent the thread.

This is about faith, and believing in what the words of God say is true. OSAS denies you can fall away from the faith, but that also denies what the word of God says is true. Thereby denying Jesus Christ.
Keep dreaming.....You teach you can lose salvation....if one can lose salvation one must do something to keep it or get it back....that is a works based salvation and what you are teaching is found in the Galatians under chapters 1 and 3.....Paul calls you a FOOL if you think your salvation begins with faith and then is made complete by works or what you do...wake up and smell the truth...maybe if you actually believed the word and didn't spiritualize everything you would realize that YOU started this argument by your OP...at the end of the day it is a works based pseudo gospel that you promote......and all who are like you or those who never really stand for anything but SIT ON THE FENCE (as they have eloquently stated a few times) will agree with you while posting scripture that actually in context argues against you!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#78
John 2:1 clearly indicates? John 2:1 "And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:"

Nope, don't see the connection. But let me say this, there is a difference between a stumble and a fall. But to say it is impossible to fall is totally contrary to the words of God. Deny the words of God, is to deny the faith in Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 6:4-6 is not a hypothetical scenario as many claim. Verse 9 makes this clear. It says,

"Dear friends, even though we are talking this way, we really don't believe it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation." (Hebres 6:9 NLT).

Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about apostasy or rejecting Jesus while having the Spirit and the gifts (that come with abiding with God); And it is not about backsliding into sin. Yes, Peter denied Christ but he did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling him yet.

James 5:19-20 talks about a believer backsliding into sin whereby they need to repent and renew their faith in the Lord (So as to be saved again). For it talks about how a believer can help convert another backslidden believer back to the truth, and save their soul; For they would have helped for them to cover a multitude of their sins (By them confessing their sins to the Lord and coming back to the faith).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79


Faith is not a mental acknowledgement.
who said it was? Can you show where I have stated faith is mental acknowledgement? That would be more belief.

Faith is a trust, an assurance. How can one claim they have faith in Christ when they are not even assured he can save them? As I said, you have no faith in Christ, your faith is in self.


Read Hebrews 11. Faith is described as taking action. Also, James says faith without works is dead. So if one's faith is devoid of any of the fruits of the Spirit then how can they truly have the Spirit?

and this proves me wrong? True faith has works. That is why true faith saves. You deny true faith saves. for if it really saved you, it could never be lost. a salvation that can be lost is not a salvation at all.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#80
Why does this issue come up daily, on dozens of threads, in various incantations? Confess with your mouth in Jesus and believe God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. Please STOP dividing the brethern! Preach that Gospel and tell people how Jesus and the Holy Spirit has been working in YOUR life. THAT is what resonates with unbelievers
This is about tearing down the strong holds of the Devil. We are to contend for the faith against those who try to pervert the grace of God and the words of Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:2-5[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.