OSAS doctrine denies the faith

[Jason0047]

What does Jesus say about luke-warm believers? Does the OSAS proponent sound more like a luke-warm believer or does the believer who seeks to honor God and follow His good ways sound more like a luke-warm believer? Does the luke-warm sound like they are saved?

 

[Mitspa]

The law is not of faith...those under law (any part) are not real believers ...they are in fact the luke-warm that the Lord is warning ...just as Paul, Peter and John and the rest of the New Testament continually warns that they have in fact and action denied the true Faith and the righteousness of God.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[JesusIsAll]

One must first doubt their salvation to have real faith...lol I guess if folks believe they are still justified by (parts) of the law of Moses and in part by faith, this makes perfect sense? But to those of us established in Gods Righteousness and not our own, this is just more religious nonsense.

It's just the Church of the Latter Day Trolls. What's ironic is that they are furiously, day and night, repeating themselves, hammering away at a false gospel nobody with eyes to see and ears to ear buys. Not one convert, ever, to this gospel of doubt, which is of no known religion. It would be such disappointment, if they realized most people aren't even reading their long-winded bloviations from hell. "What is your career?" "Accomplishing nothing on the web."

 

[Skinski7]

Skinski7, are you familiar with a phone call that Mike DeSario made to Hank Hanegraaff saying that all people who believe in eternal security are lost, and associating them with child molesters? He used the Lord's name in vain on the same phone call.

I understand you approve of Mike Desario, and that he is associated with Pelagian beliefs. Your youtube channel has a bunch of videos with him.

I was first really exposed to Church History through the work of Chris Hill in an audio recording entitles "Repentance Unto Life." This audio teaching blew me away with how pointed it was and how much it made sense. It pierced right through much of what I believes and I found myself naked before God. I had to either suppress what I was learning due to its implications or dive in deeper. I chose to dive in deeper.

The work of Chris Hill led me to the work of Mike DeSarion. I found Mike's lectures very refreshing and clear. I sought out and spoke with Mike and would often communicate with him. This led me to forsaking sin for the light turned on in regards to what I had to do and that I had previously not been doing it. Ever since then I have been devouring the Bible, Church History and I have also dug deep into a lot of theology. I have read Calvin, Wesley, Finney and many others and can see many problems with their work as well as see how these problems originated.

I do approve of Mike DeSario's teachings. He is teaching people that they have to forsake their rebellion to God, yield, and be born again through the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

I differ in some regards to what he teaches on some subjects but it is negligible where it matters.

I have a lot of his videos on my Youtube channel because I saved them from Google Videos before Google Video was discontinued. I thought their content was significant enough to be preserved and thus I put them on Youtube. I also saved this video from Google Video which I think is one of the best presentations of the Gospel I have ever seen in my life...

[video=youtube;9eL57nAm9Lo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eL57nAm9Lo[/video]

This man has put on sackcloth and ashes and is appealing from the heart to a lost and deceived generation of people that they come to a knowledge of the truth. He is akin to a Jeremiah or Isaiah in my opinion. He may not be giving a revelation of prophecy like those men but he is giving a call to repentance. He is a man of God and ought not be ignored.

This video would have been lost forever I suspect if I had not ripped it from Google Video when I did. I thank God I did so.


The reason Mike DeSario associates people who uphold OSAS with child molesters is because of the child molestation question which was sent out to hundreds and probably even thousands of pastors. I have sent the same question to hundreds of pastors myself.

The question is...

"Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them."

The responses received from pastors is generally an emphatic NO THEY DO NOT.

Stopping any particular sin is not the issue, you see, the issue is whether one trusts in the provision provided by Penal Substitution, ie. Jesus was punished as a substitute for the sinner thus expiating the wrath of God (making it not due any more, the fine is paid in full) and Jesus also obeyed as a substitute for the sinner where his obedience is credited to the believer.

Thus a pedophile can still be actively engaged in his vile deeds but be saved at the same time because salvation is not of works. It is all God you see. If the child molester is genuinely saved then he will be convicted about his filthy deeds and "desire" to not do it although the actual cessation is really up in the air. He may stop, he may continue.

In other words a Gospel message is preached where people are saved IN sin instead of saved FROM sin.

I am not aware of any phone call Mike made to Hank Hanegraff and unless one was a first hand witness to such a call or the recording or one can produce it now then it is gossip to be using such a thing to demean Mike.

Mike's website used to have the following audio clips from Hank on it though...

Hank Hanegraaff, Believers must Confess Sins that are already Forgiven
Hank Hanegraaff, Jesus exchanges His Perfection for your imperfection
Hank Hanegraaff, OSAS is an expression of God
Hank Hanegraaff, were Positionally Righteous, but Practically we still Sin
source:- Outrageous Audio Clips with the

The amazon account they were stored on was deleted by another unfortunately so they are lost.



A belief in OSAS disconnects "deeds" from salvation. Thus it necessitates salvation being "abstract" in order to account for manifest rebellion to God (like child molestation or theft). Penal Substitution is the perfect solution for an abstract view of salvation.

OSAS is premised on ancient gnosticism mixed with a Jesus flavour. That is the truth.

 

[Mitspa]

Mt 6:5 ¶ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

 

[DiscipleDave]

When we stand before God on Judgement Day and have to answer for ourselves. Those who believe OSAS will have no defense. They will not be able to plead ignorance, because plenty of people who know the Truth have not failed to try to warn those who believe OSAS is not the Truth.
Now for me personally, i believed OSAS was the Truth for many years, i was taught OSAS, i believed OSAS. The problem was the more i studied the Word of God, the more i realized OSAS can't possibly be True. It does not line up with Scriptures. Hundreds of examples in Scriptures reveals it is not True. The mere fact that the Bible says a persons name can be blotted out of the Book of Life, PROVES that OSAS can't possibly be True also. Once you are Saved your name is written in the Book of Life according to Scriptures, and OSAS teaches Once you are Saved, written in the Book of Life, you can't be removed, you can't lose it, yet Scriptures teach contrary to that belief, and teaches a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life. This is only one example, there are many that PROVE OSAS is not True. It is a false doctrine for EASY Christianity. Get Saved and your going to Heaven, and there is nothing you can do to lose it = EASY CHRISTIANITY. It's not True.

Seems to me, if people are adamantly saying that OSAS is a lie, and is not the Truth, That those who believe OSAS is the Truth, should study the Bible extensively to find out if it is True or Not, Eternity is at stake.

Here is another Truth. MAN teaches OSAS and uses a few verses to support that teaching. The Scriptures does NOT teach OSAS. Did you hear that? MAN teaches OSAS, you have learned about OSAS from a MAN. Scriptures does not teach OSAS. If Scriptures taught OSAS, then OSAS would be accepted as TRUTH. But Scriptures does NOT teach OSAS, Man teaches that and use a few supporting Scriptures to back up that teaching all the while ignoring or making void verses that do not line up with OSAS teaching. If you are believer of OSAS it would seem to me, you should be a little concerned about this, your salvation is in question. is OSAS True or NOT TRUE? Better find out, better study the Word of God, Better seek God for the Answer on this Question. Because if OSAS is false, and is NOT TRUE, when you stand before God on Judgement Day you will not be able to plead ignorance, that you did not know, because many Holy Men of God have tried to tell you that OSAS is a lie and is NOT the Truth, but you refused to believe it, and will be rejected, because you fully believed a lie.

click on OSAS to see more Scriptural proof that it is NOT TRUE. or don't and answer on Judgment Day why you did not seek more Scriptural proof if the belief of OSAS is True or NOT TRUE. your choice.

^i^ Responding to OP

 

[Chica]

I do not believe in Baptismal Salvation. However, I do believe the Scriptures teach in many other places that there are conditions to doing certain things that can effect a person's spiritual standing with God in the afterlife. For example: You agreed with me before that if you do not forgive, you cannot be forgiven. This is just one of many examples in the Bible that places conditions on a person's good standing with God or not.

Side Note:

Yes, I have been baptized, just in case anyone was wondering.

For example: You agreed with me before that if you do not forgive, you cannot be forgiven.

I explained to you before that the use of the "Our Father" Matt.6:12 where Jesus says to pray to be forgiven and they would be forgiven is not valid for Christians.

No Christian is forgiven on the basis of forgiving others. A Chrisitian is forgiven and cleansed when they judge their own sin and confess it to Jesus (1John 1:9)

If his forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others, then the atonement of Jesus Christ (not yet accomplished at this point Matt.6:12) is insufficient. Forgiveness and remssion of sins is part of the finished work of Christ in the believer:

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:14

A Jew under Jesus's earthly ministry obtained forgiveness on a CONDITIONAL basis.

 

[Mitspa]

Mt 6:5 ¶ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mt 6:16 ¶ Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

 

[JesusIsAll]

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

2 Corinthians 1:22 And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? [the devil, deceivers] It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

1 John 5:10-13 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Ephesians 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Psalm 34:22 The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.

Jude 24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Let's throw in a few verses, for the status of some here:

Romans 10:2-3 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Galatians 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Bob accepted Jesus Christ 10 years ago, attends Church faithfully, and is referred to as a Good Christian.
Bob lives with a girlfriend having sexual relations with her.
Bob on the way home from work one day is killed in an accident.
On Judgement Day is Bob SAVED or NOT SAVED?
According to Scriptures no fornicator will enter into Heaven.
According to men Once you are Saved, you are Always Saved.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

If Bob was living in fornication, is he not a fornicator? Will God allow a fornicator into Heaven, even though His Word says no fornicator shall inherit the Kingdom of God? Does God lie? Or will God stay True to His Word, and Scriptures can't be broken, and indeed no fornicator will enter into Heaven, EXACTLY as the Word of God plainly teaches.

What then, because Bob accepted Jesus Christ and became SAVED, he is NOT a fornicator, even though he commits the sin of fornication over and over and over again? Does repenting every night of his wicked deed of fornication, make him no longer a fornicator? For example if a person lies every day, but repents every night of lying, is NOT a Liar then because he repents over and over and over again?

i will tell you the Truth. Anyone who continues to lie and does not cease from lying, even though they repent of every night, will be judged a LIAR. and Rev 21:8 is clear. All Liars shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone. What then, if a liar is a SAVED person, they are no longer a liar, even though they continue to lie?

Its quite simple. Those who continue to lie, are liars
Those who continue to commit adultery, are adulterers
Those who continue to fornication, are fornicators.
Those who continue to steal, are thieves.
NO Liar, adulterer, fornicator, or thief will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, and it does not matter what you claim with your mouth.

Let the Word of God be True, and what men teach false doctrines.

^i^

 

[Jason0047]

The law is not of faith...those under law (any part) are not real believers ...they are in fact the luke-warm that the Lord is warning ...just as Paul, Peter and John and the rest of the New Testament continually warns that they have in fact and action denied the true Faith and the righteousness of God.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

When the New Testament mentions the "law" it is usually in reference or in context to the "Law of Moses." Just look at the surrounding words or verses and this becomes very clear. It is not in reference to all laws in general. Christians are not anarchists who do not hold to any law whatsoever. Paul himself said he establishes the Law. Paul also asks, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul answers that question with.... 'God forbid." Paul also says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

But just so that there is no confusion amongst our other readers here, Salvation is not in something you do of your own power or by the arm of your own flesh. So Salvation is not Works Salvationism. Salvation is also not Antinomianism where the moral law is ignored. For if one thinks they can do evil and still be saved, then they got another thing coming to them. Salvation is Relationship-ism (1 John 5:12). Salvation is about surrendering to God and allowing Him to do the good work within your life once you have been transformed spiritually.

 

[Mitspa]

Bob cannot inherit the Kingdom of God while he walks in the flesh, only those who walk in the Spirit by true faith can through the Spirit inherit the Kingdom...whether Bob is really saved and received and was sealed with the Holy Spirit? Only God Knows! But we know those under the law are in the flesh and cannot inherit the Kingdom and their is more on that list in Gal 6 than fornication....greed jealousy envy bitterness ...strife and contention ....and many "good" churchgoing Christians, continue in these things always. don't use half the standard...use it all!

 

[Mitspa]

When the New Testament mentions the "law" it is usually in reference or in context to the "Law of Moses." Just look at the surrounding words or verses and this becomes very clear. It is not in reference to all laws in general. Christians are not anarchists who do not hold to any law whatsoever. Paul himself said he establishes the Law. Paul also asks, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul answers that question with.... 'God forbid." Paul also says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

But just so that there is no confusion amongst our other readers here, Salvation is not in something you do of your own power or by the arm of your own flesh. So Salvation is not Works Salvationism. Salvation is also not Antinomianism where the moral law is ignored. For if one thinks they can do evil and still be saved, then they got another thing coming to them. Salvation is Relationship-ism (1 John 5:12). Salvation is about surrendering to God and allowing Him to do the good work within your life once you have been transformed spiritually.

The law is the law...every jot and tittle!
And its made very clear what law and parts to which those who seek self-righteousness are trying to justify themselves by!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[JesusIsAll]

The law is the law...every jot and tittle!
And its made very clear what law and parts to which those who seek self-righteousness are trying to justify themselves by!

And lots of luck with that.

 

[eternallife7]

Bob cannot inherit the Kingdom of God while he walks in the flesh, only those who walk in the Spirit by true faith can through the Spirit inherit the Kingdom...whether Bob is really saved and received and was sealed with the Holy Spirit? Only God Knows! But we know those under the law are in the flesh and cannot inherit the Kingdom and their is more on that list in Gal 6 than fornication....greed jealousy envy bitterness ...strife and contention ....and many "good" churchgoing Christians, continue in these things always. don't use half the standard...use it all!

I am not arguing or anything, but I have come to believe that when we have had or hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and or bodies washed with pure water that anything that tries to tell us else wise, even thoughts that might appear in our own heads, has to be gainsaying.

 

[Jason0047]

I explained to you before that the use of the "Our Father" Matt.6:12 where Jesus says to pray to be forgiven and they would be forgiven is not valid for Christians.

No. Besides 1 John 1:9, what other verses gives you that idea? Surely one verse in the BIble is not the only one you have to prove this point. What makes you think Matthew 6:15 is changed? Do you think Jesus was preaching primarlily New Testament or Old Testament?

No Christian is forgiven on the basis of forgiving others. A Chrisitian is forgiven and cleansed when they judge their own sin and confess it to Jesus (1John 1:9)

No. 1 John 1:9 is in context to 1 John 1:6-7 and or 1 John 2:3-6. If you walk in the light as he is in the light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you of all sin. Confessing sins only works if you then stop in your sinning (i.e. to walk in the light or keep his commandments).

If his forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others, then the atonement of Jesus Christ (not yet accomplished at this point Matt.6:12) is insufficient. Forgiveness and remssion of sins is part of the finished work of Christ in the believer:

Jesus did not lie. Why would Jesus give us a Command in the New Testament that was never spoken before in the Old and then just completely not use that command? Do you not know that Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing?

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:14

This verse is in context to faithful believers and not unfaithful believers.

A Jew under Jesus's earthly ministry obtained forgiveness on a CONDITIONAL basis.

Let's look at the words of Paul then.

• Ephesians 2:2-3 - Paul says in times past the believers at Ephesus walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, which is the same spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Paul also says to them that they used to have their conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and WERE by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

2 Bonus Non-Pauline Verses:

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

 

[Jason0047]

The law is the law...every jot and tittle!
And its made very clear what law and parts to which those who seek self-righteousness are trying to justify themselves by!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

No. Hebrews 8:13 says the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses) is vanished away. Scripture also says the Law has changed. The Old Covenant is no longer valid. It is gone. We are under a New Covenant. There is no more Law of Moses that we are forced to obey anymore. However, there is a law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) or the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Paul himself even said that what he has written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Do you know that verse? Or are you simply unaware of it?

In fact, there are more New Testament Commands then Old Testament ones.

There are 1,050 + New Commands.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

 

[Mitspa]

I am not arguing or anything, but I have come to believe that when we have had or hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and or bodies washed with pure water that anything that tries to tell us else wise, even thoughts that might appear in our own heads, has to be gainsaying.

The receiving of the Very Spirit of God is such a matter and witness to true salvation, that I wonder how some can leave it out of the conversation? Those who know that they know that they have the Spirit of God, know they have eternal salvation and life, those who do not, have to doubt and try to figure out a way they can earn salvation. Its sad that some believe that they have salvation and don't have the Witness of the Holy Spirit, no wonder so many of these legalist are going about to establish their own righteousness and salvation by keeping (parts) of the Law of Moses.

 

[Mitspa]

No. Hebrews 8:13 says the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses) is vanished away. Scripture also says the Law has changed. The Old Covenant is no longer valid. It is gone. We are under a New Covenant. There is no more Law of Moses that we are forced to obey anymore. However, there is a law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) or the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Paul himself even said that what he has written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Do you know that verse? Or are you simply unaware of it?

In fact, there are more New Testament Commands then Old Testament ones.

There are 1,050 + New Commands.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Not sure of the point you think your making...the law is the law! The Ten commandments being the very core of the law! This is revealed by clear and evident reading of the scriptures...If you have found away to avoid what is evident and yet seek to justify yourself in some way through dead works? I suggest you repent!

Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God

 

[JesusIsAll]

The receiving of the Very Spirit of God is such a matter and witness to true salvation, that I wonder how some can leave it out of the conversation? Those who know that they know that they have the Spirit of God, know they have eternal salvation and life, those who do not, have to doubt and try to figure out a way they can earn salvation. Its sad that some believe that they have salvation and don't have the Witness of the Holy Spirit, no wonder so many of these legalist are going about to establish their own righteousness and salvation by keeping (parts) of the Law of Moses.

You also see the dead in scripture exegesis that's atrocious, no understanding of scripture they use. The Holy Spirit leads into truth, not this wilderness they wander in. They use the rhetorical pattern cult deceivers use, some scripture, and a lot of their own incoherent blather, which is required to try and twist scripture truth into a pretzel. I can't count the times they've used scripture that, if they understood that scripture, they would see how it destroys their very claims and condemns them.