Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[mwc68]

Not in the NT meaning of "works" as regards salvation.

Was not aware the NT changed the meaning of works. To repent, you have to do something. To believe, you have to do something

 

[Elin]

Was not aware the NT changed the meaning of works. To repent, you have to do something. To believe, you have to do something

Yes, regarding salvation, the NT uses the word "works" to mean something specific and distinct.

 

[SeaBass]

As the result of their saving faith which produces the works, not as the result of the works themselves.

Jesus did not say one enters the kingdom by doing nothing but then once in the kingdom does God's will.

Mt 7:21 who enters the kingdom of heaven?
1) those that have faith only?
2) those that DOETH the will of God?

Right. . .because the works those people were doing in v23 were not of saving faith, but of counterfeit faith.

Just because those people were NOT doing God's will but their own will does not undo verse 21 that say the ones that enter the kingdom of heaven are the ones that DOETH God's will.

No. . .the part that gets bypassed is the works of the Father come only from saving faith, never from counterfeit faith.

Yep, faith only advocates dismiss Jesus saying the one's that enter the kingdom are the ones that DOETH the Father's will.

 

[notuptome]

Was not aware the NT changed the meaning of works. To repent, you have to do something. To believe, you have to do something

Since we are dead how can we do anything? Ever seen a dead person do anything? Dead in trespass and sin. Dead men can do no works. The Holy Spirit must quicken the soul before anything can happen. Ephesians 2 tells you these things.

Repentance is the result not the cause of salvation. Believing comes from hearing and hearing Gods word. Man received the ability to choose when he fell in the garden. Man received the knowledge of good and evil. Because of this man must choose. John 3:18-21 describes the choosing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

there was a way the apostles encouraged the adopted children of God to do good works,
but it wasn't by telling them "you cannot be saved unless you do good works"

they were wroth to say such things, and treat the sacrifice of Christ as though it were nothing.

perhaps you have good intentions, mr. fish, but i believe your implementation of them is quite false.

Eph 2:10 God does not just encourage Christians to do good owrks but 'before ordained" Christians walk in good works. So how will get around what God before ordained Christians to do?

 

[SeaBass]

Yep. . .it's the same as becoming a runner, having never ever run, and still being a runner anyway.

It's not possible for one to be a runner if he has never ran.
Not possible for one to be a smoker if he never smokes.
Not possible for one to be a slave to righteousness if he has never done any righteousness.

 

[SeaBass]

Agreed. . .because you left out the part between (1) and (2) where the Holy Spirit raises to eternal life in the new birth. . .then one does works.

That Holy Spirit (pneuma--wind) who is the wind which blows wherever it pleases (sovereignly),
being "seen" only by its effects (Jn 3:8). So it is with everyone born of the Spirit (Jn 3:9)

No verse says the Holy Spirit 'raises to eternal life' those with a dead faith only.

But your are still struggling to find a way to get one saved by a dead, lifeless faith only that cannot do anything.

 

[SeaBass]

Addressed above. . .

You did not explain it away for I just looked and it is still in the bible where men have been told to save yourselves, save thyself, cleanse yourselves, etc.

 

[SeaBass]

Addressed above. . .

It is still not possible for one to be a runner that has never ran or for one to be a smoker that has never smoked or for one to be a slave to righteousness who has never done any righteousness.

 

[SeaBass]

Addressed above. . .

I just looked again, and the bible still associates works with salvation, you did not explain it away:

Rev 20:12,13 men will be judge according to their WORKS, therefore whether one receives salvation or condemnation depends upon his WORKS.

James 2:25 Rahab justified by WORKS
James 2:24 a man is justified by WORKS
James 2;21 Abraham justified by WORKS

Not only is the word "works" associated with salvation, the words 'obey" 'obedience' 'doeth' are associated with salvation, Heb 5:9; Mt 7:21, etc, etc.

 

[mwc68]

Since we are dead how can we do anything? Ever seen a dead person do anything? Dead in trespass and sin. Dead men can do no works. The Holy Spirit must quicken the soul before anything can happen. Ephesians 2 tells you these things.

Repentance is the result not the cause of salvation. Believing comes from hearing and hearing Gods word. Man received the ability to choose when he fell in the garden. Man received the knowledge of good and evil. Because of this man must choose. John 3:18-21 describes the choosing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Choosing is a work

 

[SeaBass]

Only in sanctification. . .not in justification, where it is a gift (Ro 5:17).

Your religious persuasion is not informed of the NT's full meaning of "righteousness."

There isn't much in the NT that isn't truncated by your religious persuasion.

Righteousness is right doing and is necessary for one to be saved.

Wrong doing does not save....right doing does save.

 

[SeaBass]

It is totally Biblical for a person to be against obedience to God as the source of the gift of salvation
(Eph 2:8-9).
It is not Biblical to be against obedience as the result of the gift of saving faith, in the process of sanctification by the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, those in the New Covenant are not under the OT Mosaic regulations.
They are under the New Covenant Law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8;
Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).

Incredible.

Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that disobey Him......You rewite this verse to fit your theology..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Righteousness is right doing and is necessary for one to be saved.

Wrong doing does not save....right doing does save.

no, right doing can not save it would take perfection (that is what the law requires, and God requires) . no one has done it but Christ.

Thats why he had to die.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Incredible.

Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that disobey Him......You rewite this verse to fit your theology..

those saved DO obey him, thus Heb 5 is confirmed. Why do you reject the power of God to change his people?

 

[SeaBass]

Please bear in mind Abraham's faith was reckoned to him as righteousness which is also woks Jesus points out the faith of Abraham as being the faith we should seek being adoptive children of Abraham. Something interesting about the name Abraham. I have heard it translated as "honored father of a multitude." So oft times when we hear the name, Abraham, we may be taken to think of our Heavenly Father. I think this beautiful. I hope you like it too.

Yes.

Heb 11:8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went."

Heb 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,"

Abraham's faith would have been dead if it did not have obedience. If Abraham had faith only, he would not have done the work of either leaving his land house and kindred nor the work of offering Issac and therefore could not be an heir to those promises.

 

[SeaBass]

Setting the word of God against itself ipso facto proves one does not understand it.

Faith only is in contrast/total opposite to what the bible teaches about salvation.

By works a man is justified not by faith only
Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that obey Him not unto all them that have faith only
Those that enter the kingdom are the ones that DOETH the will of God, not those that DOETH NOT the will of God.

 

[SeaBass]

You poor man. You will not to see what God has written. You go about to establish your own righteousness all the while denying the righteousness of God in Christ.

Though you should bray a man in a pestle with a mortar with wheat yet his foolishness will not depart from him. Proverbs 27:22

God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

.....and that old straw man gets brought out of the closet that accuses me of doing 'self righteousness' when time and again I have quoted Rom 10:3 that proves one cannot be saved by doing his OWN righteousness but is saved by submitting/obeying GOD'S righteousness.....


This is one straw man that will not die.

 

[SeaBass]

Uh huh. . .like my paycheck is a gift because my employer allows me to have it.

Apples to oranges.


Did God owe you salvation like you were owed your paycheck? No. Therefore because of God's grace he has allowed you the opportunity to be saved through faith. So faith is a gift God has allowed you to have, you did not earn that gift of faith, God did not owe you that gift of faith but God has allowed you to have that gift of faith due to His grace.

 

[SeaBass]

A matter of fact is not a matter of requirement or cause.

It is a matter of fact that whosoever confesses Christ, Christ will confess them
It is a matter of fact that whosoever denies Christ, Christ will deny them before God.

Are you suggesting one can go against these bible facts and be saved anyway?