Mike Bickle's "Israel Mandate"
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G
Galahad
Guest
Willie,
Are you a believer? A Christian?
If you affirm you are, where did you learn about Jesus Christ?
The Bible is authoritative.
The Mormons and Catholics do not believe it is. Mormons say it is, but deny it by there acceptance of Joe's book. Catholics believe Bible, Tradition, and Pope are all authoritative. In actually, it's the pope that is authoritative. He can make laws and formulate doctrines and practices that contradict both the Bible and the traditions of Catholicism.
Perhaps you should do some studying on the history of the Bible. Canon. Criticism. Etc.
A most powerful argument, proof that Jesus is the Son of God is the resurrection of Jesus. His tomb was empty on the third day following His crucifixion. How? Numerous theories: body was stolen, swoon theory, wrong tomb, etc. None of theories are plausible. The truth is: Jesus was crucified. He died. He was buried. He was raised up. That's the only plausible explanation for the empty tomb.
Yes, the Bible records it all. And no one has ever been able to discredit the gospel records of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
That's just one account in the Bible that can only be explained by what the record says. No other explanation is possible/plausible.
How do you explain the conversion of Saul in Acts 9?
What person in his or her right mind would dare attempt to fool the Jews that Jesus is the messiah by introducing the notion that the messiah would be born of a virgin!
Just fit all the stories together. Sixty-six books. All agree. All point to Jesus.
Of course we have the inspired word of God.
The problem is folks don't believe it is authoritative. Those men and women laughing along with that Hogan guy in the video, they are laughing at folks who believe the Bible. Who love God and who look to His word as to direct their life. Those folks enjoy ridiculing the actual form and manner of respect and reverence to God who is Holy, who is to be revered. To be worshipped. Even Moses was commanded to remove his sandals. The ground on which he stood before the Lord was then holy.
Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord. Colossians 3:17.
Are you a believer? A Christian?
If you affirm you are, where did you learn about Jesus Christ?
The Bible is authoritative.
The Mormons and Catholics do not believe it is. Mormons say it is, but deny it by there acceptance of Joe's book. Catholics believe Bible, Tradition, and Pope are all authoritative. In actually, it's the pope that is authoritative. He can make laws and formulate doctrines and practices that contradict both the Bible and the traditions of Catholicism.
Perhaps you should do some studying on the history of the Bible. Canon. Criticism. Etc.
A most powerful argument, proof that Jesus is the Son of God is the resurrection of Jesus. His tomb was empty on the third day following His crucifixion. How? Numerous theories: body was stolen, swoon theory, wrong tomb, etc. None of theories are plausible. The truth is: Jesus was crucified. He died. He was buried. He was raised up. That's the only plausible explanation for the empty tomb.
Yes, the Bible records it all. And no one has ever been able to discredit the gospel records of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
That's just one account in the Bible that can only be explained by what the record says. No other explanation is possible/plausible.
How do you explain the conversion of Saul in Acts 9?
What person in his or her right mind would dare attempt to fool the Jews that Jesus is the messiah by introducing the notion that the messiah would be born of a virgin!
Just fit all the stories together. Sixty-six books. All agree. All point to Jesus.
Of course we have the inspired word of God.
The problem is folks don't believe it is authoritative. Those men and women laughing along with that Hogan guy in the video, they are laughing at folks who believe the Bible. Who love God and who look to His word as to direct their life. Those folks enjoy ridiculing the actual form and manner of respect and reverence to God who is Holy, who is to be revered. To be worshipped. Even Moses was commanded to remove his sandals. The ground on which he stood before the Lord was then holy.
Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord. Colossians 3:17.
E
ember
Guest
Please read my responses to Ember below. I think it will answer your scurrilous statements here as well.
I don't believe anything less than that, either, relative to the Holy Spirit. It actually disturbs me no end that those of you who believe the signs-and-wonders miracles are still valid today always claim those of us who don't believe that either "deny the Holy Spirit" or "don't have the Holy Spirit" which of course calls into question our salvation. Not that you had done that, but it happens.
OK...I'll address this again...I have dealt with signs and wonders...I stated they are not for us to desire or pray for...signs and wonders are to FOLLOW the believer...as signs that what is said is true...that would be casting out of demons etc. I have not EVER said you must speak in tongues to be saved...as you acknowledge (thanks)...it's obviously not a part of early believers lives unless they ASKED for the infilling...as can be seen in the book of Acts...so, not a part of salvation in that sense...it is also a gift..you ask as did others
the Holy Spirit seals the believer for redemption ...I believe is the correct way it is stated?...tongues can be a very empty experience...or it can indeed be a blessing
It is almost as though you don't think the Holy Spirit can act, expect visibly. Others, in other words, must see the result of the Holy Spirit through external miraculous acts. Balderdash.
oh baloney. I never said that! that seems to be the claim of those in the nay side of the building...let's be fair here...I have a very balanced and biblical approach and I have never been asked to step down (from leadership which I have usually had in one form or another or shut up or told I was out of order...I follow the scriptural mandate for the gifts...however, I can speak in English just as well by the unction of the Holy Spirit ...in other words, still the Holy Spirit but in the language we can all understand. ps...no I don't think I am doing that now...just in case someone does...I am simply explaining myself
The reality is, there is no greater gift to man than the Holy Spirit, and nothing outwardly has to be seen in order to prove He is in us. We know the heart change that has taken place, and He makes us want to shout from the rooftops to the glory of the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is quiet, unassuming, does not call attention to Himself. That is why the belief that He makes people talk funny, or utter ridiculous things that often don't come true, or worse -- and again, I know this is not what you mean by what you believe -- jump over pews, roll on the floor laughing or bark like a dog. Those things are not of the Spirit at all, but of a much meaner, lower spirit.
I pretty much addressed behaving like a canine or the barnyard rooster...that is another spirit..the Holy Spirit can be very loud..although I am often in favor of quiet...that is my personality...but when you see me dancing before the Lord or shouting Hallelujah...well, know that is the Holy Spirit because my normal tendency would be to be unobserved. Really.
All those activities that do nothing but take the eyes off the Lord and interupt (usually a word that people need to hear) are the actions of those who have no teaching and let themselves go at the suggestion in their mind that they should...those suggestions do not come from God...He does not work against Himself...we agree on that. Well Good!!
How can there be a greater work than His sealing us in Christ for our future redemption? Or assuring us we belong to Jesus? There isn't. It is confirmation within us, to us personally, that doesn't have to be manifested in nonsense.
Listen...I am not a thrill seeker...other than in having fun in sports and I have the injuries to prove it haha. BUT there is nothing like basking in the presence of God through His Spirit...there are no words and no music...like the silence in heaven in the book of Revelation...I remember in another thread you mentionned that sometimes people think you are not emotional enough...and I wrote after your post that I understood that...I am not just of the whoppee variety...but that can be valid if that is your personality and you are sincerely worshipping or praising God..
I believe 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 proves otherwise. Paul specifically says tongues, prophecy, and knowledge -- which is fresh revelation -- will come to an end. The context of his writing, in the Greek, demands that we put a "sooner than later" aspect on that declaration, and in fact the gifts given only to Christ's apostles and the limited few to whom they passed them on were already dying out. Epaphras almost died at Troas. Could Paul not heal him? Apparently not. You must ask yourself "Why not?"
I have asked myself and God every sort of question you would prob ask yourself..and then some because I have a different experience then you do. My husband does not speak in tongues but does believe it can be real...we had the whole discussion before we were married...we have some pretty considerable differences...but neither of us are Bible illiterate...and He had to adjust to some things cause I don't back down from what I know is real...but he knows I am genuine...and what we continue to differ on, we differ on but respect the fact that is where we stand on it. It does not make either of our belief in God or salvation less or more...although it does make for some good discussion sometimes!
I am not of the fresh revelation camp.....but God does give personal relevant revelation and He has to me...I didn't ask for that...but God does decide...whether someone wants to call it insight or knowledge...but there it is. I disdain those lineups where people gather to 'get word from the Lord' from the speaker of the month club...it's Christian fortune telling and abuse of a gift that was never intended for that. However, in counselling, in does help to have spiritual insight into people's conflicts and probs...and I am not a professional counsellor...but have helped people from time to time...as we should as the Lord leads.
Knowledge of the type peculiarly givenby the Spirit to some persons only, or that peculiar gift of knowledge of divine things, was going to disappear with the completed works of the Bible -- "the perfect" which actually means "complete" that Paul wrote of in verse ten. You may argue that "the perfect" is Christ, so the gifts last until His return. But the word -- teleioß (teleios) is a unique Greek construct that is an adjective that modifies itself. A form of this word, teleo (teleo) is what Jesus said on the cross: "It is finished!" Jesus will not be "finished" upon His return. He will just be beginning. And He is not a "the" the indicator that the self-modifying adjective-noun is neuter in nature, not masculine nor feminine.
Well not so. Again, the Holy Spirit does reveal still things to come...but not in the sense of adding to the Bible that I can tell. Prophecy in the NT is more about the telling forth and not the revelatory nature of the book of Revelation...but God certainly warns people or reveals things ( like Paul going to prison)...he has to and for me...and I really am not special..it is the relationship I have with Him...I have never used any gift God has given me and I never will, for myself...I could have had a career in Christian music but I turned it down as I don't agree with it. I am not putting that as a blanket statement on others...I can only answer for myself...but I do disagree with the dove awards and all that...it's like the world only not as good. As far as healing goes...I am VERY skeptical but have seen some genuine healing and restoration. See, I am really cautious and prefer just to have the assurance of God's presence with me then 'seeing' things or whatever...I believe God is very carful about who He uses...I think most of the so called prophecy out there today is fake and and the more people's ears itch, the worse its going to get
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 tells us the gifts cease, and they did, when John penned the last words of his apocalyptic epistle, the Revelation. I want to jump down to the bottom of your post to cover this while I'm on the subject ...
I disagree. But that is the whole debate, eh?
That's true, but the kind of prophecy Paul spoke of in verse eight. Prophecy before the completion of what we now call the biblical canon was of two types:
- It was a prediction of the future, much as the Old Testament prophets warned of coming judgment, blessing, or difficulty
- It was, in Paul's time, a talent for deciphering the Old Testament prophecies about future events, particularly relating to the prophecies of Jesus as Messiah.
I realize that's what you believe, but the exegesis of the thirteenth chapter of 1 Corinthians cannot be interpreted any other way. Many try, but they violate every rule of interpretation and translation we have established and come to respect in so doing.
well, you are convinced, genuinely so and I am convinced...genuinely so...although I have been on both sides, so perhaps have a little more to go on
This is contradictory, Ember, and precisely what I see as being dangerous to practice (what I believe to be) no-longer-valid "signs and wonders." Here you say you know the difference between "being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues" and disparage "deniers" such as myself. Then you deny you "think you are better" than those of us who reject tongues and other signs and wonders. Doesn't that strike you as contradictory? It certainly does me, and I'm sorry to say, makes me question the motivation of those who insist there is license to practice these gifts today. Obviously, I don't believe there is.[/QUOTE]
I never disparaged you. The thing is, that seems to be a cloak worn by those who disagree. There is no contradiction...I am not God...I don't know your heart...I barely know my own at times which is no wonder as the heart is deceitful above all things..but, in getting the mind of Christ, I think we follow scripture and the Spirit of God makes the reality of the presence of God as experienced by those who wrote about it.
There is a distinct two step process outlined in the book of Acts which is easy enough to follow unless one is of the persuasion that God has taken away what He once gave...but yes, there is salvation which is the most important and what really counts.
I will never try to convince someone of the need to be filled...too much abuse and it does open spiritual doors that are closed beforehand...but I cannot be quiet or deny the reality either. So there you have it and now I have compiled a small book.
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G
Galahad
Guest
Well, it was nothing. No scripture. Besides, Jesus was accused of being a sinner when He healed a blind man. Who accused Him? Those who did not accept His word which was confirmed by many works and wonders. Those who rejected the witness of the prophets, the witness of John, and the witness of the Father.
John 9 healing of blind man.
G
Galahad
Guest
The great divide.
On one side are christians who believe Jesus loves them and they want to express this love to others.
The other side is cynics who accept an anointing or an emotional high, but any mind commitment is just too much.
No wonder the bible means so little, Jesus is just a name for the creator and the name you attach to love songs, but exactly how you love him, is just like you love anything, isn't it? I mean theology is just old fashioned, we are into astral travel, going to the 3rd heaven, and face to face meetings with God. Who needs the bible when you can get the hot line.
Only trouble is this is not a hotline that has anything to do with Jesus or the gospel.
On one side are christians who believe Jesus loves them and they want to express this love to others.
The other side is cynics who accept an anointing or an emotional high, but any mind commitment is just too much.
No wonder the bible means so little, Jesus is just a name for the creator and the name you attach to love songs, but exactly how you love him, is just like you love anything, isn't it? I mean theology is just old fashioned, we are into astral travel, going to the 3rd heaven, and face to face meetings with God. Who needs the bible when you can get the hot line.
Only trouble is this is not a hotline that has anything to do with Jesus or the gospel.
G
Galahad
Guest
Originally Posted by Willie-T Humm, Chica. No modern revelations today? Then it was not true when it was written that in the last days, old men would dream dreams and young men would have visions?Humm, Chica. No modern revelations today? Then it was not true when it was written that in the last days, old men would dream dreams and young men would have visions?
Meant you Willie. You assume too much. Way too much.
G
Galahad
Guest
S
Sirk
Guest
If we can receive new revelations now.... then we can render the old ones null and void. Doesn't make sense even on a human logic level.
Interesting.... Jesus was confirmed by His observable actions. (The disciples even believed because they saw Him change water to wine at Cana.) Peter was even told that God, Himself, had revealed Jesus' divinity to him from Heaven, not that he had so deduced that fact by correctly puzzling out the Scriptures.
In my church people would give words from the Lord, but there where bible ideas folded and made personal. In a real way they were very touching.
As far as I am concerned this is what prophecy is about, words of encouragement, words of knowledge to help the body minister one to another. People are so shut down and locked out, sometimes it is a good way the Lord can come in. I think christians are just so unaware of the Holy Spirit moving in their inspirations, but it does not matter, it is how the Lord works with gifts of love, shared for the up-building of the body.
Now ember strikes me as odd, claiming I have no understanding, am an old cracker kicked under the fridge.
Her days in an open bretheren church have truly left their mark. I went to such a church for 2 years and know some of the dryness there, but that is not where my words come from. A closed heart just bounces love off it.
For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them. matt 13:15
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Matt 24:10-14
I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
John 5:42-43
Do you not say we are living in the last days? Did not Peter clearly repeat that verse to half of Jerusalem? What's to assume? I'm just reading from the authority. You are not saying that Peter's statement was untrue, are you?
We are to be made jealous by the non-Jews. Can signs and wonders make us jealous? Perhaps. One of my good friends came to know Messiah because when she was in college her roommate was a Christian and she became “jealous”; she did not understand her roommate’s peace that passed all understanding and her relationship she had with the G-d of Israel. As I’m typing this out this brings to mind a great question. What about “miracles” that take place that we know are of demonic origin, such as the false religion of snake handlers who in there services show their faith by grabbing poisonous snakes and people who have received miraculous healings but not in the name of Y-shua? In most circles of my people Y-shua is a “false god”. Now, if praying to the Hebrew G-d in the name of Y-shua with miracles following bring about jealousy, then yes, it is a great thing. And I believe it does. I got saved because of the miraculous then afterward I thought to myself that if I’m going to serve this “Jesus” I better know something about Him so I went and got a degree in Bible College. Now I have a very deep, personal relationship with Y-shua my Messiah. My point to all of this is the non-Jews are supposed to be making us jealous, if signs and wonders do it than yea…. Let’s just put out there for fun how do “you”, non-Jews make us Jews jealous for the Messiah?
Paranioa and visions
A pastor in a church I was part of wanted things to happen more than was safe or good for him. He started believing people were out to get him, and a spiritual war was going on. He saw enemies everywhere and started to close down people he did not implicitly trust. One woman had a vision of snakes in the cretch biting the children.
Because she was a favoured source of revelation, this was insight into dangers, and not just the mad dreams of a dis-allusioned spinster. Unfortunately the woman later contracted cancer and died. The pastor retired early a broken man after various pastoring failures and tradgedies in his own life.
Rather than being real, just applying praise and love to difficult circumstances and reaching out for help and support he made it into the Holy Spirit against others. He has now retired and the church is prospering and learning more about how to love, support and be integrated with one another.
Now this is a painful journey, but I am very, very patient and I trust my Lord. There is only one road, being open, honest and walking in the light. The gifts are a support but that is all, the core is about love working through peoples lives.
If anyone has had a true encounter with the Holy Spirit this is always his message, your are an accepted child of God and we love you.
But strangely this is dead. As I said before, only a cold hearted person would think such an idea was true.
A pastor in a church I was part of wanted things to happen more than was safe or good for him. He started believing people were out to get him, and a spiritual war was going on. He saw enemies everywhere and started to close down people he did not implicitly trust. One woman had a vision of snakes in the cretch biting the children.
Because she was a favoured source of revelation, this was insight into dangers, and not just the mad dreams of a dis-allusioned spinster. Unfortunately the woman later contracted cancer and died. The pastor retired early a broken man after various pastoring failures and tradgedies in his own life.
Rather than being real, just applying praise and love to difficult circumstances and reaching out for help and support he made it into the Holy Spirit against others. He has now retired and the church is prospering and learning more about how to love, support and be integrated with one another.
Now this is a painful journey, but I am very, very patient and I trust my Lord. There is only one road, being open, honest and walking in the light. The gifts are a support but that is all, the core is about love working through peoples lives.
If anyone has had a true encounter with the Holy Spirit this is always his message, your are an accepted child of God and we love you.
But strangely this is dead. As I said before, only a cold hearted person would think such an idea was true.
G
Galahad
Guest
G
Galahad
Guest
Sure. We are in the last days. Yes sir. But Peter said "This is that..." The outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I don't disagree with Peter. Do you? That's the question.
G
Galahad
Guest
Little Willie or who's ever sitting in for Little Willie, I am worried. I am worried very much. I am worried, worried.
And you know what worries me? Worry. I worry over worry. When I worry, I worry that I am worrying.
Look! I had to edit this post. Why? Because I was worried. I was worried that I didn't clarify that I am worried. 
You've been posting gibberish all along. Then it is revealed: You're actually a Nonbeliever. Anti-God. Kinda like a little mole. Just waiting. Then you get detected. Challenged. Questioned. Heat is on. You can't hide no more.
Just explain what you mean, for once.
You Dingo.
If you can't read Acts and understand the simple statement Peter made that there were going to be a lot of things coming through believers that the Jews (churchy types) would be at a loss to understand, and would even claim God's people were drunk, then I really don't know how to make it any plainer for you.Little Willie or who's ever sitting in for Little Willie, I am worried. I am worried very much. I am worried, worried.
And you know what worries me? Worry. I worry over worry. When I worry, I worry that I am worrying.
You've been posting gibberish all along. Then it is revealed: You're actually a Nonbeliever. Anti-God. Kinda like a little mole. Just waiting. Then you get detected. Challenged. Questioned. Heat is on. You can't hide no more.
Just explain what you mean, for once.
You Dingo.
sirk brother, come on now, the book of Law for Joshua was the 613 laws God gave to Moses, Deuteronomy and possibly oral accounts of creation and the flood. Do not let this word depart from your mouth, is part of Jewish oral tradition, that is not recorded in writing. Ask any Messianic or rabbinical Jew and they will tell you of oral tradition.
Surely you are not suggesting the Book of Law for Joshua was the whole Bible!?!?