Mike Bickle's "Israel Mandate"

[PeterJens]

Why are you trying to bring in the "Latter Rain", stuff?

There is a whole belief system which is denied and hidden among a large part of the "gifts" church.
What it comes down to is a redefinition of what humans are, what salvation means and what our relationship to God is.

It shows itself in deminishing taking scripture as the authority, put emotional and spiritual experiences first, talking new age ideas about heavenly portals, or open heaven experiences, out of body experiences etc. as the way forward.

You are part of this group, so where do you stand? Or are you simply not going to answer because to you these things do not matter. If this is so, it shows where you are spiritually.

 

[Willie-T]

There is a whole belief system which is denied and hidden among a large part of the "gifts" church.
What it comes down to is a redefinition of what humans are, what salvation means and what our relationship to God is.

It shows itself in deminishing taking scripture as the authority, put emotional and spiritual experiences first, talking new age ideas about heavenly portals, or open heaven experiences, out of body experiences etc. as the way forward.

You are part of this group, so where do you stand? Or are you simply not going to answer because to you these things do not matter. If this is so, it shows where you are spiritually.

You can't be this obtuse. No one can. The Latter Rain is Dominionism, and as I stated in one of my first posts, I just can't go with that stuff.

And you are doing just like VW did. Claiming beliefs for others. Please show me any of what you just mentioned on an official Vineyard site.

 

[Sirk]

I'm gonna wade into a little bit different waters and I would like for you all to watch this video. The content isn't what is important...whats important is that this is how christians talk to each other....they don't listen...only talk and yell and accuse. We should be setting a different example of communication than what the world does. Fast forward to 2 minute mark to get the picture. There is no communication here. This is how fearful angry people communicate.

[video=youtube;Z3U9ENaTPLY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3U9ENaTPLY[/video]

 

[Willie-T]

I'm gonna wade into a little bit different waters and I would like for you all to watch this video. The content isn't what is important...whats important is that this is how christians talk to each other....they don't listen...only talk and yell and accuse. We should be setting a different example of communication than what the world does. Fast forward to 2 minute mark to get the picture. There is no communication here. This is how fearful angry people communicate.

[video=youtube;Z3U9ENaTPLY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3U9ENaTPLY[/video]

Looks familiar to much of what is done here.

 

[Gr8grace]

Your characterization of what I have said, and your attempts to justify your warping of the posts regarding the cessation of the spiritual gifts does a great disservice to you, your rationality, and your veracity. Again, whether you realize it or not, you twist what has been said and in the end utterly undermine your statements as being contrary to everything you've said.

I am going to respond to you in a way that shouldn’t be necessary, given we are brothers in Christ and you have no basis whatsoever to make claims as you have made in the last two post to which I have replied. You and other state that those of us who do not believe the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit are valid today “only believe part of the Bible.” That’s simply not true, and a gross oversimplification of our position.

We could just as easily say that you do not understand the Bible at all, because you discount the Scriptural evidence that the gifts ceased, just as Paul said they would in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Your view is that that is not the case yet, though I’m sure you agree that with Paul’s statement, they were destined to cease at some point. You don’t believe that time has come. We do, and in fact believe that time is long ago passed.

It is foolish for anyone to say that God does not deal miraculously in this world today. He speaks, He heals, He even does signs and wonders in all believers’ lives today. Every single one of us is a testimony to His miracles, knowing that He started with a tattered, lost, scarred and dying soul literally murdered by the sin within each and every one of us, and made us a new creation. If that isn’t a miracle, they do not exist.

The question at hand is not, as you attempt to make us say, “Does God do miracles, signs and wonders, in this day and age?” It is not even “Is the Holy Spirit free to dispense the gifts of healing, prophecy, even tongues, if He sees fit?” The answers are “Of course He is!” You claim they are readily available to anyone who seeks them. I say God is not that careless in His economy. In fact, they are rarely given. They simply aren’t needed that often.

You cannot find anywhere in the historical accounts of the church any evidence whatsoever that anyone other than the Twelve apostles and their immediate close associates did these signs and wonders on a regular basis. Paul even gave a reason for this.

2 Corinthians 12, NASB
12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.​

Do you also argue that you are an apostle, or if you don’t actually perform signs and wonders, that those around you who do are apostles? I doubt that. The signs and wonders miracles were, according to Paul, given he and the other apostles and their associates to confirm the message of Christ.

It is similar to the statement in Acts 2:22 that Jesus was “… a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him … “Jesus needed the confirming testimony of God because His appearance and message was radical in its revelation, even though the rabbis of the time should have been able to see Him as Messiah by the testimony regarding Him in their Law and Prophets.

That message is now confirmed in us, the believers. Our changed lives, the very survival of Christianity for 2,000 years, and the preservation of truth in Scripture are testimony to the efficacy and veracity of God’s word.

I understand there may be circumstances in the Third World where people who have never known the Bible, never been exposed to the Gospel, or have never considered there is anything other than their own small world in this universe, might need to have a new message confirmed through other than Christian testimony. But again, these are extremely rare instances.

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that indicates tongues, prophecy, knowledge, or healings were for any purpose other than confirming the message of those spreading the Gospel. You cannot tell me that a bunch of Christians in Brownsville Assembly or Airport Vineyard in Toronto needed any kind of confirmation of a message from God. They had been exposed to the Gospel, they allegedly knew Jesus. Why in His holy name would they need to start babbling like fools or barking like dogs to “confirm” anything about Him?

This is the vast majority of how these “gifts” are manifested today. I don’t believe it is an exaggeration at all to say that all such manifestations in American and other developed-nation churches where the Gospel has been preached for centuries are abuses of the biblical understanding of the miraculous gifts,

The Holy Spirit today indwells the believer from the moment he/she believes. He seals us for the day of redemption. He certifies us as “in Christ.” He assures of our eternal security. He reveals truth. He helps us properly exegete and understand God’s word. He reveals to our spirits and mind the whole counsel of God regarding worship, doctrine, and Christian living.

The only reference we see in the Bible to the use of tongues in particular – but which I believe we can apply to all the miraculous signs – is their improper use, in the church at Corinth. No, Paul didn’t totally ban the use of those signs and wonders, but he said in the previously referenced thirteenth chapter that those signs and miracles would cease – and they have. The “perfect” has come – not Christ, as so many claim and as I refuted in a previous post, but the completion of God’s revelation of Himself through Scripture. That completion is grounded in the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

John 14
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever ...[”]
​

He did not say “to lead you the manifestation of miraculous signs.” In fact, the concept of the word “helper” – parakletoß fact (parakletos) – is anything but ostentatious behavior, but a quiet leadership, the Third Person of God destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles after His ascension to the Father. His mission is to lead us to a deeper knowledge of the Gospel and give us divine strength needed to enable us to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom.

To make Him a circus pony doing tricks with language and animal imitation – or even the more subtle acts of misusing and abusing spiritual gifts that, in the vast majority of Christian opinion, are no longer valid or necessary except in the most rare and extreme circumstances, utterly fails to honor God, and in fact defames Him.

That’s my last word on this subject. Those who want to continue this practice, feel free. I don’t have to witness it. I’ve tried to warn, however, that it is disruptive, invalid, and unbiblical. But you do what you want.

And I really don’t care if you thing I only believe “part of the Bible.” I know better.

You Sir, have an excellent pastor teacher or are one.

With the tongues issue though. It is so big, and even confuses great pastors. We just can't deny the reality of tongues today.

They are either demonic in nature or emotional in nature. And the reality is, we are seeing tongues today. They just are not biblical tongues. They ceased in 70 A.D. at the fall of Jerusalem, when "this People"(Jews) were cut of from being Gods client nation.

 

[PeterJens]

You can't be this obtuse. No one can. The Latter Rain is Dominionism, and as I stated in one of my first posts, I just can't go with that stuff.

And you are doing just like VW did. Claiming beliefs for others. Please show me any of what you just mentioned on an official Vineyard site.

Ok you do not go along with latter rain theology. But you also do not want to go along with biblical theology and the authority of scripture, so where do you hold you theology.

I would agree for instance with the Nicene creed, to be a trinitarian and a baptist, with an acceptance of the gifts but the stopping of the office of apostle and prophets. I am neither armenian or calvinist and can see benefits is both positions.
I am a post-millennialist. Now I am happy to discuss any of these positions, but that is where I am at present.

The trouble with the latter rain is they are not open about their beliefs and do not care about it, because it has no echo in their hearts, and they like most cynics are happier to hide than declare and discuss their point of view. This makes discussion difficult, because no longer do people appear to think beliefs really matter only experiences.

So not suprisingly people get jumpy over your statements, and probe about the obvious issues. If you want to critise or challenge me about the ideas I have, feel free, that is why I am here.

 

[Willie-T]

Ok you do not go along with latter rain theology. But you also do not want to go along with biblical theology and the authority of scripture, so where do you hold you theology.

I would agree for instance with the Nicene creed, to be a trinitarian and a baptist, with an acceptance of the gifts but the stopping of the office of apostle and prophets. I am neither armenian or calvinist and can see benefits is both positions.
I am a post-millennialist. Now I am happy to discuss any of these positions, but that is where I am at present.

The trouble with the latter rain is they are not open about their beliefs and do not care about it, because it has no echo in their hearts, and they like most cynics are happier to hide than declare and discuss their point of view. This makes discussion difficult, because no longer do people appear to think beliefs really matter only experiences.

So not suprisingly people get jumpy over your statements, and probe about the obvious issues. If you want to critise or challenge me about the ideas I have, feel free, that is why I am here.

Don't try to play that game. I never said I don't believe in the authority of Scripture. I have repeatedly said that I think it is dangerous to consider everything you happen to find in the Bible as an authoritative "law" that must be followed to be in God's will.

And some examples that show you must also feel this way are that you are not picking up snakes and drinking poison... nor do you hate your entire family in order to be a disciple. All I've ever said is that God gave us a brain to use... even when reading the Bible.

 

[Willie-T]

Love to stay and play, but we are off to an Art Museum in Tampa.

 

[PeterJens]

Don't try to play that game. I never said I don't believe in the authority of Scripture. I have repeatedly said that I think it is dangerous to consider everything you happen to find in the Bible as an authoritative "law" that must be followed to be in God's will.

And some examples that show you must also feel this way are that you are not picking up snakes and drinking poison... nor do you hate your entire family in order to be a disciple. All I've ever said is that God gave us a brain to use... even when reading the Bible.

I am sorry. You are not clear at all. Yesterday you where quite happy to give the impression you did not take scripture as authorative, or preeminent. Ofcourse you use your brain, I am not a fundamentalist or literalist. You were purposely stirring things to see where people stood on the ideas of the Holy Spirit. Similarly ideas about the family, you are provoking a response by saying these are a problem, but now you are saying you see it in context.

That is not walking in the light. I have walked with penticostals, brethren, super spirit filled christians who home school, liberal universalists, muslims, catholics, JW's, atheists, hedonists. Most are quite happy with their positions.

So these threads are a new experience, people playing games.

You are very cagey still. I have old friends who are completely into latter rain, and open heavens, some who have left the faith, others who say they no longer follow this and are more traditional. One local pastor wants to close down sunday services and open a distributed church in the community, without agreement of his congregation who have slowly left, because he is a man of God.

Do you like IHOP and Mike Bickle? Do you see VineYard as the way to go, or are there things lacking here also?

 

[Chica]

No, you don't get to change what is written. That is, indeed, the way Jesus "meant" it, but the 'authoritatively' written text declares that hating your entire family is a requisite to being a disciple.

This is the frightening thing about calling any verse you find in the Bible, "authoritative.' In my many years on this Earth, I have run across way too many people who honestly DO believe they are supposed to hate their families if they are not believers. This is too close to the same narrow thinking of the snake handlers in Appalachia. They do not handle snakes because they just thought it would be cool. They do it because the Bible clearly (to them) gives them 'authority" since the statement is plainly written in the book, that "believers WILL pick up serpents."

This is the frightening

What is frightening is your mis-handeling God's Word.

I have run across way too many people who honestly DO believe they are supposed to hate their families if they are not believers.

What Jesus said was:

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt. 10:37

He didn't say "if their not believers". You have tried to use every poor example in the book to discredit God's word. And Jesus is The Word (John 1:1) and in the Word was light (v.4) and John the Baptist came to bear witness of that light (v.7), and, who did John witness of, it was Jesus the Christ of Nazareth.

This is too close to the same narrow thinking of the snake handlers in Appalachia. They do not handle snakes because they just thought it would be cool. They do it because the Bible clearly (to them) gives them 'authority" since the statement is plainly written in the book, that "believers WILL pick up serpents."

Scripture is also consistent that we are not to put the Lord to the test (Exodus 17:2; Matthew 4:7). Just as Jesus refused to jump off the pinnacle of the temple, even though God would send angels to protect Jesus, so are we to not intentionally put ourselves in situations that require God’s miraculous intervention.

It does not say, “Go out and handle snakes.” It says, “They will pick up snakes with their hands.” It is describing something that will occur, not commanding that something should occur.


It's wrong to impugn the word of God just because someone lacks the ability to be discerning. Shame on you.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Your characterization of what I have said, and your attempts to justify your warping of the posts regarding the cessation of the spiritual gifts does a great disservice to you, your rationality, and your veracity. Again, whether you realize it or not, you twist what has been said and in the end utterly undermine your statements as being contrary to everything you've said.

I am going to respond to you in a way that shouldn’t be necessary, given we are brothers in Christ and you have no basis whatsoever to make claims as you have made in the last two post to which I have replied. You and other state that those of us who do not believe the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit are valid today “only believe part of the Bible.” That’s simply not true, and a gross oversimplification of our position.

We could just as easily say that you do not understand the Bible at all, because you discount the Scriptural evidence that the gifts ceased, just as Paul said they would in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Your view is that that is not the case yet, though I’m sure you agree that with Paul’s statement, they were destined to cease at some point. You don’t believe that time has come. We do, and in fact believe that time is long ago passed.

It is foolish for anyone to say that God does not deal miraculously in this world today. He speaks, He heals, He even does signs and wonders in all believers’ lives today. Every single one of us is a testimony to His miracles, knowing that He started with a tattered, lost, scarred and dying soul literally murdered by the sin within each and every one of us, and made us a new creation. If that isn’t a miracle, they do not exist.

The question at hand is not, as you attempt to make us say, “Does God do miracles, signs and wonders, in this day and age?” It is not even “Is the Holy Spirit free to dispense the gifts of healing, prophecy, even tongues, if He sees fit?” The answers are “Of course He is!” You claim they are readily available to anyone who seeks them. I say God is not that careless in His economy. In fact, they are rarely given. They simply aren’t needed that often.

You cannot find anywhere in the historical accounts of the church any evidence whatsoever that anyone other than the Twelve apostles and their immediate close associates did these signs and wonders on a regular basis. Paul even gave a reason for this.

2 Corinthians 12, NASB
12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.​

Do you also argue that you are an apostle, or if you don’t actually perform signs and wonders, that those around you who do are apostles? I doubt that. The signs and wonders miracles were, according to Paul, given he and the other apostles and their associates to confirm the message of Christ.

It is similar to the statement in Acts 2:22 that Jesus was “… a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him … “Jesus needed the confirming testimony of God because His appearance and message was radical in its revelation, even though the rabbis of the time should have been able to see Him as Messiah by the testimony regarding Him in their Law and Prophets.

That message is now confirmed in us, the believers. Our changed lives, the very survival of Christianity for 2,000 years, and the preservation of truth in Scripture are testimony to the efficacy and veracity of God’s word.

I understand there may be circumstances in the Third World where people who have never known the Bible, never been exposed to the Gospel, or have never considered there is anything other than their own small world in this universe, might need to have a new message confirmed through other than Christian testimony. But again, these are extremely rare instances.

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that indicates tongues, prophecy, knowledge, or healings were for any purpose other than confirming the message of those spreading the Gospel. You cannot tell me that a bunch of Christians in Brownsville Assembly or Airport Vineyard in Toronto needed any kind of confirmation of a message from God. They had been exposed to the Gospel, they allegedly knew Jesus. Why in His holy name would they need to start babbling like fools or barking like dogs to “confirm” anything about Him?

This is the vast majority of how these “gifts” are manifested today. I don’t believe it is an exaggeration at all to say that all such manifestations in American and other developed-nation churches where the Gospel has been preached for centuries are abuses of the biblical understanding of the miraculous gifts,

The Holy Spirit today indwells the believer from the moment he/she believes. He seals us for the day of redemption. He certifies us as “in Christ.” He assures of our eternal security. He reveals truth. He helps us properly exegete and understand God’s word. He reveals to our spirits and mind the whole counsel of God regarding worship, doctrine, and Christian living.

The only reference we see in the Bible to the use of tongues in particular – but which I believe we can apply to all the miraculous signs – is their improper use, in the church at Corinth. No, Paul didn’t totally ban the use of those signs and wonders, but he said in the previously referenced thirteenth chapter that those signs and miracles would cease – and they have. The “perfect” has come – not Christ, as so many claim and as I refuted in a previous post, but the completion of God’s revelation of Himself through Scripture. That completion is grounded in the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

John 14
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever ...[”]
​

He did not say “to lead you the manifestation of miraculous signs.” In fact, the concept of the word “helper” – parakletoß fact (parakletos) – is anything but ostentatious behavior, but a quiet leadership, the Third Person of God destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles after His ascension to the Father. His mission is to lead us to a deeper knowledge of the Gospel and give us divine strength needed to enable us to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom.

To make Him a circus pony doing tricks with language and animal imitation – or even the more subtle acts of misusing and abusing spiritual gifts that, in the vast majority of Christian opinion, are no longer valid or necessary except in the most rare and extreme circumstances, utterly fails to honor God, and in fact defames Him.

That’s my last word on this subject. Those who want to continue this practice, feel free. I don’t have to witness it. I’ve tried to warn, however, that it is disruptive, invalid, and unbiblical. But you do what you want.

And I really don’t care if you thing I only believe “part of the Bible.” I know better.

Sounds to me like you are trying to convince yourself of something.

The interesting thing I find with cessastionists like yourself is how closely aligned your apologetic methods against continualists like me are with atheists, evolutionists and secular humanists and that is that it takes more energy for you guys to disprove a part of God than to simply let go and simply believe.

Without disrespect to your hard earned degrees and education and certs, We find that nearly all highly educated Christians in fields of science, medicine, engineering and law all are cessastionists and cannot get past the pride of their self understanding and self accomplishment and will never let go of that.

Once again you brought up everything, I have stared we were not promoting. If you are so certain of everything you stated, then it should be alright for you, right? And if so why do you continue to attempt to convince me I am wrong?

Maybe you are not attempting to convince me, but just convincing yourself and at the end of the day, that is just mental assent and that friend, is a work of the enemy.

 

[Chica]

Read it again, Lady. It is an imperative, declarative statement that believers WILL pick up snakes and WILL drink poison. You don't get much more "authoritative" than that.

I must reintegrate:

Scripture is also consistent that we are not to put the Lord to the test (Exodus 17:2; Matthew 4:7). Just as Jesus refused to jump off the pinnacle of the temple, even though God would send angels to protect Jesus, so are we to not intentionally put ourselves in situations that require God’s miraculous intervention.

It does not say, “Go out and handle snakes.” It says, “They will pick up snakes with their hands.” It is describing something that will occur, not commanding that something should occur. (per post #290).

 

[Joshua_Generation]

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Gal 5:22-23


for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth Eph 5:9


filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God. Phil 1:11


so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God Col 1:10


Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. Matt 3:8

The problem is many go to church with no faith, or just say stuff without knowing the words have real meaning.
A few grasp the promise of a relationship and find a sudden release of love and joy, which they translate to mean the form of faith was wrong and dead, and it is this emotional release that is the faith.

The problem is in this emotional release, many other deceptions can appear. If a "christian" group appears and does not say or exalt Jesus as Lord is suspect.

I have been is churches that were non-believing, yet I could still praise and worship the Lord. What is worrying to me, I have been in "holy spirit" meetings where I was spiritually unsure what they were doing or saying. Content is everything, else the experience you are part of, may not be from the Lord.

No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3

I wonder how seriously people take this phrase. I think you should.

I think I have been very nice to you despite your foolish attempts to paint my wagon and cause division through what seems like Christian values, but really is just a form of being a benign saboteur .

You continue to contradict yourself and make everyone here appear you are some Christian giant, when in reality you are nothing but a divider and accuser of the brethren. You are blown about by every whim of doctrine, which makes you double minded and you talk consistently out of both sides of your mouth.

I am going to make it plain, and while the following will be viewed as hostile, it needs to be said.

You are a fraud, a liar and a contradiction, you are a accuser of the Brethren and nothing more. Your cute tricks of attempting to color people does not work on me and others is exposed! We see right through you. You are a deceiver and a mocker and discredit is your middle name.

Your foolish masquerade as a "christian" is blow by your never ending analysis of people and your psychosomatic approach to calling them out or attempting to "help" them see the light. You are an agent of darkness, clothed in light

You make absurd statements and assumptions about people and are an insecure little man, that craves attention and know the Word enough to be dangerous to those with no form of discernment to understand who and what you are. Even Jekyll and Hyde were more concealed than you.

I told you twice and now the final time. GO play Yoda and mind games withe someone who will fawn all over you and think you to be who you really are not. Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me boy!

You are not my first rodeo Peter, I have been the rodeo clown for worse.

The Lord bless you, and keep you;

The Lord make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;

The Lord lift up His countenance on you,
And give you peace.’

This rodeo is over....

 

[Chica]

Love to stay and play, but we are off to an Art Museum in Tampa.

Sad you see this as playing, you should be taking the things that are said to you seriously.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I was kind of joshing, but you really DON'T know what the gospel is, do you. You seem to think it is "preaching".

It is the teaching and revelation of Jesus Christ. You show me where He "revealed" or "taught" the crap on the video below, Willie, and then explain to me how, if you or any of your church adhere to that nonsense, you can claim any biblical basis for it??

Again, have you found that Toronto video yet?

This is hard to watch

[video=youtube;xCeVZ6e2T0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2T0E[/video]

It's utter nonsense, unbiblical, probably demonic. Somebody, please, say "That is of Christ." But you should avoid thunderstorms for the next few days, or be ready to duck the lightning.

I am very disturbed by the willingness of some to abandon a fellowship of sorts -- "of sorts" being the point of emphasis, since its cyber-fellowship (and I now wonder if there even is such a thing) -- over differences of opinion regarding interpretation of the Bible. I've been accused of insulting some as "non-Christian" because of their doctrinal beliefs.

Perhaps I have. I've attempted to show why I don't buy the doctrinal stance of their church. I have impugned their faith in that respect, but perhaps if you feel insulted, you need to figure out if you really believe what your church teaches, and if you don't, leave.

And with that, I think I'm gone from here ... permanently. Maybe I'm too opinionated to be a good member of a Christian discussion board. Maybe I don't need the stress relief and good-natured bantering that I thought I got here. Seems to me I wind up "insulting" someone instead of enjoying an intellectual and spiritual exchange.

Either way, I've got some prayerful consideration to do, but if a gun were put to my head today and the question "Will you continue to be a member of CC?" put to me, I'd probably say "Nope. Too much drama, and no real spiritual connection." Bye.

 

[Gr8grace]

It is the teaching and revelation of Jesus Christ. You show me where He "revealed" or "taught" the crap on the video below, Willie, and then explain to me how, if you or any of your church adhere to that nonsense, you can claim any biblical basis for it??

This is hard to watch

[video=youtube;xCeVZ6e2T0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2T0E[/video]

It's utter nonsense, unbiblical, probably demonic. Somebody, please, say "That is of Christ." But you should avoid thunderstorms for the next few days, or be ready to duck the lightning.

I am very disturbed by the willingness of some to abandon a fellowship of sorts -- "of sorts" being the point of emphasis, since its cyber-fellowship (and I now wonder if there even is such a thing) -- over differences of opinion regarding interpretation of the Bible. I've been accused of insulting some as "non-Christian" because of their doctrinal beliefs.

Perhaps I have. I've attempted to show why I don't buy the doctrinal stance of their church. I have impugned their faith in that respect, but perhaps if you feel insulted, you need to figure out if you really believe what your church teaches, and if you don't, leave.

And with that, I think I'm gone from here ... permanently. Maybe I'm too opinionated to be a good member of a Christian discussion board. Maybe I don't need the stress relief and good-natured bantering that I thought I got here. Seems to me I wind up "insulting" someone instead of enjoying an intellectual and spiritual exchange.

Either way, I've got some prayerful consideration to do, but if a gun were put to my head today and the question "Will you continue to be a member of CC?" put to me, I'd probably say "Nope. Too much drama, and no real spiritual connection." Bye.

Its demonic. If there are believers there, they are influenced by demons. And I would guess that there are unbelievers there that are possessed by demons.

 

[Pumicestone]

....you talk consistently out of both sides of your mouth....

You are a fraud, a liar and a contradiction, you are a accuser of the Brethren and nothing more.
Your cute tricks of attempting to color people does not work on me and others is exposed!
We see right through you. You are a deceiver and a mocker and discredit is your middle name.

.... You are an agent of darkness, clothed in light

You make absurd statements and assumptions about people and are an insecure little man, that craves attention ....

You are a real charmer, Josh.

The epitome of Christian love, charity and tolerance.

 

[PeterJens]

You are a fraud, a liar and a contradiction, you are a accuser of the Brethren and nothing more.....
Your foolish masquerade as a "christian"....
You are an agent of darkness, clothed in light

Wow. So I am not a christian because ..... you say I am not. I am glad the Lord looks for belief, a changed heart and the Holy Spirit indwelling. But you appear to be above these things. Paul put a simple phrase on this

You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. Romans 14:10

You have nothing against me except your spirit that talks to you. All I have brought to you is from the Lord, in His word, yet you find fault, but not in detail, but trying to attack me. Now that is sad, and against what you claim to believe.

I am a fraud? How. I am a liar? Where is the lie?

What you do not like is the reality open heaven is heresy, portals, gets a new heart because some prophet says "You will get a new heart."

I have christians brothers who have had prophets pray over them they will do great things etc. revivals etc and literally nothing has happened. Guess what, they are false prophets. There are prophets who admit they get 70% wrong.

This is just spiritualism, and horror scopes. And the great false teachers say, "Anyone who speaks out against this practice is of the enemy." Well they are right, any man of God knows to say anything against a false prophet is calling out an enemy, and that is what they are.

Division. Your attitude has already split and destroyed the church, you are leaving nothing left than compromised idiots.

You cannot silence truth or the word of God. Judgement will fall on you because of making a word of God into something from the devil. Scripture is very plain, you stand at the judgement seat and are found wanting. You demonstrate why cessasionalists hold their position because you do not care about truth or sincerity.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

It is the teaching and revelation of Jesus Christ. You show me where He "revealed" or "taught" the crap on the video below, Willie, and then explain to me how, if you or any of your church adhere to that nonsense, you can claim any biblical basis for it??

This is hard to watch

[video=youtube;xCeVZ6e2T0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2T0E[/video]

It's utter nonsense, unbiblical, probably demonic. Somebody, please, say "That is of Christ." But you should avoid thunderstorms for the next few days, or be ready to duck the lightning.

I am very disturbed by the willingness of some to abandon a fellowship of sorts -- "of sorts" being the point of emphasis, since its cyber-fellowship (and I now wonder if there even is such a thing) -- over differences of opinion regarding interpretation of the Bible. I've been accused of insulting some as "non-Christian" because of their doctrinal beliefs.

Perhaps I have. I've attempted to show why I don't buy the doctrinal stance of their church. I have impugned their faith in that respect, but perhaps if you feel insulted, you need to figure out if you really believe what your church teaches, and if you don't, leave.

And with that, I think I'm gone from here ... permanently. Maybe I'm too opinionated to be a good member of a Christian discussion board. Maybe I don't need the stress relief and good-natured bantering that I thought I got here. Seems to me I wind up "insulting" someone instead of enjoying an intellectual and spiritual exchange.

Either way, I've got some prayerful consideration to do, but if a gun were put to my head today and the question "Will you continue to be a member of CC?" put to me, I'd probably say "Nope. Too much drama, and no real spiritual connection." Bye.

We agree on this video, this is sickening and not of God. I never endorsed this and in fact refuted it in earlier posts and other threads.

 

[ember]

and my responses to vigilant warrior continue to go ignored...the one where he accused me of name calling and I pointed out it was someone else and I was objecting to it has not been addressed

I'm a big girl now...I am not so small I am looking for an apology

I am looking for honesty and when I read this thread will I find it?

Thankfully, I did find some