When does the rapture occur?

[VCO]

"in your heart {in your human spirit}"
To the contrary:
---May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thes 5:23.
---For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Heb 4:12.
---The Lord is with your spirit. 2 Tim 4:22.
---I bow my knees to the Father...that Christ may make His home in your heart. Eph 3:14-17.
---The mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. Rm 8:6.

Do you really know what any of that is talking about.

Man is a triune being just like GOD, because we are created in His Image. Two of our parts are invisible and one is visible, JUST LIKE GOD. The soul and spirit of a born again Believer both think. One is in tune with the will of the Flesh, the Soul ([FONT=&quot]psychē - [/FONT]in the Greek); yes that word soul is referring to the total of the mental capacities that lie between your ears. The spirit of man was not alive to the will of GOD at natural birth, because of the sin nature we inherited from Adam. THUS, it is the spirit of a man that NEEDS to be Born Again, by the Holy Spirit, into an Eternal Life that is 100% in tune with the will of GOD, not the flesh. The human spirit and human soul will war at first over which is in CONTROL. As we feed our spirit, it becomes stronger and stronger, and our human spirit will eventually dominate over the soul. The heart of man is frequently symbolism for the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and for the born again human spirit. It also is symbolically used to describe where CHRIST in us Dwells. Whether the heart being the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit, Christ in us, and the human spirit, is literal or only symbolic, we will know when we get to heaven. But either way those indwelling spirits communicate to us through our born again spirit. TECHNICALLY our Triune GOD is all the same SPIRIT, but within that ONE DIVINE SPIRIT there are certainly three distinct Personages, with three Distinct Functions, YET they are still only ONE DIVINE SPIRIT, the only GOD that has ever existed.

You are Lutheran, aren't you? The reason I suspect that, is an enormous amount of your posts seem to have the slant on Scriptures that I remember being taught when I was growing up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. They were good at teaching basics, but they were scared to death of even trying to teach born again. NEVER did I hear any Lutheran Pastor or Sunday School teacher even attempt to explain Born Again. Nor did their teachings ever get me Saved, however, when I was finally born again at the age of 29, after coming to an END of living life to please SELF; I started listening to conservative Evangelical Type of BIBLE TEACHERS, who where not afraid to teach BORN AGAIN. Those 12 minute, mini Sermons in the Lutheran Church were a starvation diet to my HUNGRY human spirit. So, not long after I was born again, I left the Lutheran Church for a Evangelical Type of Church that had one hour sermons (Evangelical Free Church) and my spirit wanted more and more spiritual food, so my intake of spiritual food to feed my spirit, grew and soon I was listening to Evangelical Bible Teachers on radio nearly every night, too.

 

[flob]

"and our human spirit will eventually dominate over the soul."
How?

"The heart of man is frequently symbolism for the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and for the born again human spirit."
By 'frequently,' you mean it sometimes is not?
Then, in those cases, what does it refer to? (Hint: one example is in the verse I quoted, Heb 4:12.)

"The heart of man is frequently symbolism for the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and for the born again human spirit."
The 'dwelling place of the Holy Spirit' IS the human spirit which has received Him. 2 Tim 4:22.

"The heart of man is frequently symbolism for the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and for the born again human spirit. It also is symbolically used to describe where CHRIST in us Dwells."
You seem to unnecessarily use the word 'symbol' here. You don't need to use it. Words are symbols. Written and spoken words represent thoughts. In the Lord Jesus' case, and in His believers' case, His words are spirit and life. Jn 6:63. The words which He speaks to us give life, and He is the life-giving Spirit. 1 Cor 15:45. He also is the Word of God. Rv 19:13. The Last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word became flesh...

"whether the heart being the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit, Christ in us, and the human spirit, is literal or only symbolic..."
Oh. Are you taking about our physical heart? In the Bible, like in English or probably most languages, it is a given that 'heart' can mean something psychological, emotional, or nonphysical, just as it also can refer to our heart pumping blood. That's why you don't need to label it a symbol. And in case you're asking, our nonphysical heart of course is to become His home. Eph 3:17. That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith. One part of our human heart is our thoughts, Heb 4:12. Our mind. Be renewed in the spirit of your mind, Eph 4:23. Eventually, He even spreads to our physical heart, our body. Rm 8:10-11. Though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. Out bodies will also become His home...Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory, according to the operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself, Phil 3:21. Rm 8:19, 23. For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God...And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body. The Holy Spirit...who is the pledge of our inheritance unto the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13-14. Christ IN you, the hope of glory, is absolutely literal. Col 1:27.

"...we will know when we get to heaven."
Do you mean when you and I are raptured? I know now. 'How can these things be? Jesus answered and said to him, You are a teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that which we know and testify of that which we have seen...If I told you of things on earth and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you of things in heaven?' Jn 3:9-12.

"our Triune GOD is all the same SPIRIT, but within that ONE DIVINE SPIRIT there are certainly three distinct Personages, with three Distinct Functions, YET they are still only ONE DIVINE SPIRIT, the only GOD that has ever existed."
Amen.

"You are Lutheran, aren't you?"
No.

"The reason I suspect that, is an enormous amount of your posts seem to have the slant on Scriptures that I remember being taught when I was growing up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church."
Lol. How interesting. Thank God no. But my brother in law is. He is born again. I pray he would leave that division.

"They were good at teaching basics, but they were scared to death of even trying to teach born again. NEVER did I hear any Lutheran Pastor or Sunday School teacher even attempt to explain Born Again."
Being born again should be basic. Being born (again) is the most basic thing, it's the Start. It's also the start of the Gospel of John, Jn 1:12-13; 3. But.................absolutely yes, I believe what you say about them! Sadly, I believe that's my dear brother-in-law's case also.

"Nor did their teachings ever get me Saved...Those 12 minute, mini Sermons in the Lutheran Church were a starvation diet to my HUNGRY human spirit."
Absolutely. I've heard testimony of Lutheran congregations in which............nobody was saved.

"my spirit wanted more and more spiritual food, so my intake of spiritual food to feed my spirit, grew and soon I was listening to Evangelical Bible Teachers on radio nearly every night, too."
Hallelujah! Though they can be improved upon too : )

 

[PlainWord]

Wow----I guess folks may delete their posts and the numbers change. So my "#2561" in my last post is inaccurate. In any case, it was starting to respond to PW's post.

VCO writes (in what is #2563 currently): "The lack [of] oil in their lamps is symbolism for lacking the HOLY SPIRIT. They are Church GOERS, who have not been born again, YET."
To the contrary of this, Mt 25:1-8 makes the point that all 10 virgins light their lamps. All 10 have oil in their lamps. The problem isn't with the lamps (the human spirits of these believers, Prov 20:27), but with the vessels, their souls. To the contrary of VCO's and MacArthur's and most Christians' mistaken interpretation or teaching, all 10 virgins in Mt 25 represent born-anew ones. Real Christians. Believers. Who have received the oil (Spirit) in their lamp (spirit), Jn 3:6; Rm 8:16; 1 Cor 6:17. This is also emphasized by the word 'virgins.' Because of Paul's word in 2 Cor 11:2. The only difference is some are wise, and some aren't. The virgins are eternally born of the Triune God just like the slaves in Mt 24:45-51 and 25:14-30 are.
They are slaves of God. Nonbelievers are not slaves of God. Some of the slaves, just like some of the virgins, will be rewarded by Christ at His judgment seat of His children in the clouds after the raptures, with the kingdom of 1000 years. Other slaves and virgins will not. In fact they will be punished for the 1000 years. And thus readied and perfected to rejoin all the regenerated family of God as the New Jerusalem after the 1000 years, for eternity.

There is a whole lot of speculation going on.

It amazes me how Pre-Tribbers can take the lesson of the 10 virgins and try to apply it to their view. The 5 virgins who had extra oil were blessed. Why? Because they were prepared to wait. If Christ came earlier (Pre-Trib) all 10 virgins would of had enough oil, but because Christ comes later (after the false Christ) 5 didn't have enough.

 

[PlainWord]

We mostly agree,except if you notice it also says "and they loved not their lives unto death",meaning that the AC kills all the believers.

The ELECT are not believers? Who is Christ gathering when He returns, dead bodies?

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You see the ELECT as dead????

The phrase you quoted refers to the martyrs. The very ones dying at the hands of ISIS today.

 

[PlainWord]

Why all this debate on the 10 virgins? If you want to know when Christ returns, He tells us. He was asked this question:

And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Notice they didn't ask when the Rapture is, they asked for the SIGN of his coming. Why would they be interested in the Second Coming and not the Rapture if they thought Christ would return and snatch them off the planet? Curious why the disciples had no interest in the Pre-Trib rapture. Curious also why Jesus didn't give the Pre-Trib rapture as a SIGN of his real coming?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a great fish story. Clouds of Heaven? I thought that happened at the Pre-Trib Rapture?

 

[VCO]

There is a whole lot of speculation going on.

It amazes me how Pre-Tribbers can take the lesson of the 10 virgins and try to apply it to their view. The 5 virgins who had extra oil were blessed. Why? Because they were prepared to wait. If Christ came earlier (Pre-Trib) all 10 virgins would of had enough oil, but because Christ comes later (after the false Christ) 5 didn't have enough.

That is because Christ is absolutely following the Jewish Wedding Customs which for most Jews are practiced the same today as they have always been practiced. He even used the traditional Bridegroom's response to His Bride drinking from His Betrothal Cup, signifying she accepts His Proposal. "I go to prepare a place for you."

Therefore the Parable of Ten Virgins is truly all about the Bridegroom stopping short of our old dwelling place, to Call Out His Bride to go the the New Dwelling place in His Father's house, for the Wedding Ceremony. You really miss a LOT OF DEPTH of understanding of certain verses when you ignore studying the Jewish Roots of our Faith.

Stopping Short of the old dwelling place of the Bride was mandatory for the Bridegroom. That does not constitute a COMING.

 

[popeye]

The ELECT are not believers? Who is Christ gathering when He returns, dead bodies?

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You see the ELECT as dead????

The phrase you quoted refers to the martyrs. The very ones dying at the hands of ISIS today.

Rethink this.
You are trying to make a point that ain't there

 

[GaryA]

Stopping Short of the old dwelling place of the Bride was mandatory for the Bridegroom. That does not constitute a COMING.

If He comes to get His Bride --- then it constitutes a coming...

 

[popeye]

There is a whole lot of speculation going on.

It amazes me how Pre-Tribbers can take the lesson of the 10 virgins and try to apply it to their view. The 5 virgins who had extra oil were blessed. Why? Because they were prepared to wait. If Christ came earlier (Pre-Trib) all 10 virgins would of had enough oil, but because Christ comes later (after the false Christ) 5 didn't have enough.

Wow,your trashed the story.

It is in fact us pretribs that eeven bother to bring this parable into the picture.

Please note that it says "BUT THE BRIDEGROOM TARRIED"

Now,lets just force this into a postrib scenario. Ok,yes,we see it does not fit,so lets CHANGE THE STORY.

"There were 10 virgins in a war zone,with a destroyed earth,hiding and starving in the rubble. 5 were dead,and 5 were alive,but just barely.So,anyway,the dead virgins oil all spilled on the ground,but who cares when you are dead? So,anyway the non groom came for the non bride,and scooped them up,raptured,but said "hold on,we ain't going to no wedding,we got a war I kinda forgot about ,so, in mid air,they came back down and killed the AC."

Now it DOES FIT POSTRIB.

 

[popeye]

If He comes to get His Bride --- then it constitutes a coming...

His feet do not have to touch to "come" to earth.

In the parable,show me where your dynamic exists?

Hint; IT ONLY FITS PRETRIB.
The wedding/bride/groom dynamic is in fact a pretrib dynamic.
Only a twist and force will work for any other position.
That is a fact.

 

[GaryA]

Wow,your trashed the story.

It is in fact us pretribs that eeven bother to bring this parable into the picture.

Please note that it says "BUT THE BRIDEGROOM TARRIED"

'the bridegroom tarried' => "the bridegroom waited seven more years"

 

[popeye]

Why all this debate on the 10 virgins? If you want to know when Christ returns, He tells us. He was asked this question:

And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Notice they didn't ask when the Rapture is, they asked for the SIGN of his coming. Why would they be interested in the Second Coming and not the Rapture if they thought Christ would return and snatch them off the planet? Curious why the disciples had no interest in the Pre-Trib rapture. Curious also why Jesus didn't give the Pre-Trib rapture as a SIGN of his real coming?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a great fish story. Clouds of Heaven? I thought that happened at the Pre-Trib Rapture?

Jesus comming at the end of the GT is what we both agree on.

What you need to reconcile,and can't,is the one taken,one left,and the FACT that Jesus introduces noah,and lot,(2 pretrib/wrath eexamples) into the equation. (which you guys can not,nor ever will be able to force fit).

 

[GaryA]

His feet do not have to touch to "come" to earth.

Exactly! That is what I am saying. Thank you...

 

[popeye]

'the bridegroom tarried' => "the bridegroom waited seven more years"

1) no believers lleft to "take" at the end of the GT
2) You have ,erroneously, no wedding to go to in the fathers' house.
3) you have the invented postrib u turn to deal with,making those left behind with a door shut,and subsequent dialog as silly and rediculous
4) you have the entrance into the wedding chamber now transposed onto a war zone.

I can keep going if this is not enough (which I am sure it is not)

 

[popeye]

Exactly! That is what I am saying. Thank you...

How does tht dynamic support postrib?

 

[GaryA]

How does tht dynamic support postrib?

There is only one more "coming" of Christ -- the Second Coming of Christ.

There will be no Third Coming of Christ.

 

[GaryA]

no believers lleft to "take" at the end of the GT

I agree. The Bible seems to indicate that only the 144K will remain at that time. ( This is what I was saying in post #2517. ) However, by the time Christ appears, there will be others...

 

[GaryA]

There is only one more "coming" of Christ -- the Second Coming of Christ.

There will be no Third Coming of Christ.

Some folks don't seem to understand that the Jewish traditions [ themselves ] are symbolic - [ only ] pointing to the 'real thing' at the Second Coming of Christ.

The 'rapture' is ( literally ) the 'wedding'.

What is described in Revelation 19:17-21 is ( literally ) the 'supper'.

God has His own ways and plans. And, they do not necessarily always exactly match the "human equivalent"...

There is not going to be a [ really, really ] long table in heaven with plates and silverware waiting for all of the saints to sit down together and eat the supper.

At the Second Coming of Christ, Jesus will arrive - marry His Bride - and set up His [ 'physical' ] Kingdom on the Earth for 1000 years.

He is not going back to heaven with the saints. He is staying on the earth to reign for 1000 years.

The "human equivalent" ceremonial traditions are only a symbolic representation of what is to come --- it is not going to happen exactly as the "human equivalent" ceremonial traditions have been carried out historically on earth.

Make sense?

 

[VCO]

"and our human spirit will eventually dominate over the soul."
How?

. . .

You seem to unnecessarily use the word 'symbol' here. You don't need to use it. Words are symbols. Written and spoken words represent thoughts.

. . .

"...we will know when we get to heaven."
Do you mean when you and I are raptured? I know now. 'How can these things be? Jesus answered and said to him, You are a teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that which we know and testify of that which we have seen...If I told you of things on earth and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you of things in heaven?' Jn 3:9-12.

. . .

Spiritual Growth from infancy to adulthood, is very similar to physical growth from infancy to adulthood. At first you cannot handle anything but Milk. Then you start to get some well mashed fruits and veggies, then you get bread with honey on it, but the strong meat (steaks and the like) are reserved for when you can chew and digest the meat.

Unlike physical growth time is not much of a factor, but rather the amount, the consistency, the purity, and the balance of the diet of the Spiritual Food (the Word of GOD), is the determining fact in how fast you grow Spiritually. The more you grow spiritually the more the will of the human spirit will be able to over rule the will of the flesh spawned in the soul of man. For example: Dr. MacArthur has said on several occasions, "A Christian is not sinless, but as he or she matures spiritually, they will sin less, and less, and less."

WELL NOW, you were cloaking how much you do know about the human spirit. I pointed out the symbolism because you put on the appearance of knowing little or nothing about being born again. So what were you fishing for?

I still see a lack of understanding on a couple important facts, unless that is part of the cloaking act too. One, you seem to lack the understanding that the human spirit once it is born again, thinks too. So it is not just the human mind (soul) that thinks. The spiritual mind primarily focuses on the Will of GOD; while the mind between our ears (our soul) is primarily focused on the Will of the Flesh.

ALSO, you do not seem to understand that Paul is primarily speaking to those who already have the Holy Spirit in them, thereby they are already Born Again, with that spiritual mind already being active.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given
the one Spirit to drink.

No addressing those without the Holy Spirit there.

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


Do you understand that not everyone sitting in pews are Christians? Many are counterfeits of Christians that Jesus called Tares. A Tare is a weed that looks exactly like wheat until the head (fruit) forms. But what did HE tell us to do with those Tares?

Matthew 13:24-30 (ASV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that sowed good seed in his field:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? whence then hath it tares?
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares, ye root up the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

[VCO]

In my morning Bible Study, I was led to a few verses that are further proof that not everyone who sits in our pews will enter Heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb:

Matthew 22:1-14 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And Jesus answered and spake again in parables unto them, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a certain king, who made a marriage feast for his son,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the marriage feast: and they would not come.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Again he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them that are bidden, Behold, I have made ready my dinner; my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come to the marriage feast.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his merchandise;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and the rest laid hold on his servants, and treated them shamefully, and killed them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But the king was wroth; and he sent his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they that were bidden were not worthy.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Go ye therefore unto the partings of the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage feast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was filled with guests.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But when the king came in to behold the guests, he saw there a man who had not on a wedding-garment:
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding-garment? And he was speechless.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For many are called, but few chosen.


The wedding-garment, is the inherited righteousness of Christ that is given to ALL who are truly born again.


Revelation 19:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Let us be glad, rejoice, and give Him glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has come,and His wife has prepared herself.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] She was given fine linen to wear, bright and pure. For the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints.


And look what it says in Isaiah.


Isaiah 61:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I greatly rejoice in the LORD, I exult in my God; for He has clothed me with the garments of salvation and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness, as a groom wears a turban and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.


How can we NOT take the Jewish Wedding Customs very seriously and examine ourselves to be sure we are born again?