Mike Bickle's "Israel Mandate"
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Oh, THAT'S all you're talking about? Simply someone being "slain in the Spirit" as it is often called? Shoot, that started way back in the Bible... in the OT, then in the garden that last night, at the tomb, with Paul on the Damascus road, all the way through hundreds of church documentations, right on up through the ages, to this very day. It even happens to me and my wife... and the first time it did, we were both staunch, dyed-in-the-wool, rigidly inflexible, dogmatic and legalistic Church of Christ-ers. And we not only did not believe in all that stuff, but we KNEW it, and ALL giftings, had died with the last Apostle. Since that first night, I've probably been on the floor 15 or 20 times, and that is a very conservative estimate.
There is a problem of conception here. You talk of the bible as if it is a dangerous book, best avoided. Now if it was an instruction manual that told you exactly what you should or should not do, would that be better?
The problem is a relationship is a two way thing, each unique, each special, each an expression of love in different ways. How can you convey the complexity and reality of this problem, and get the core message across, there are no static solutions, there is a discussion and working through a relationship. Do parents before they meet the child set a set of rules and work out how they are going to interact with their children.
So ofcourse different things are applicable to different people and situations, some phrase meant for one circumstance do not work in another though the words appear the same. You have got to accept the Lord made things this way and could have worked things out differently. The bible is a rough book, because that is what is needed. The question is about trust, do you trust the Lord and His methods? Because of Jesus, I trust everything He does.
I do not trust those who fake things, who desire something impossible and claim too much without justification.
Now from the response of Joshua, open heaven is something he truly likes. What about you? Are you open to anything a "spiritual" leader will bring, even if it overthrows the core gospel principles. One thing I know about the Lord, he has been working for over 2,000 years and His kingdom is not shrinking. So whatever solution you propose it has to encompass all this human experience. From your hesitancy I suspect you cannot answer these questions which is a problem.
If you could tell me about the transformation of people through love remaking them, I would say Amen. If the movement is just taking disaffected christians from other churches then it is a parasite movement with no future. I could promise anything to a bunch of people, but the crunch comes when the day of delivery is there. Now in my house group we are trying to be more open and sharing, learning the boundaries of our needs and how we can encourage one another.
What amuses me is someone calling me a fake, or empty or without purpose etc. It is like a balloon popping, without any effect or content. If christians do not come to terms with they are humans who are intended to demonstrate they function better than the host community, then the faith means nothing and is just fake fantasy. But maybe this is too hard a challenge for some but not for me.
The problem is a relationship is a two way thing, each unique, each special, each an expression of love in different ways. How can you convey the complexity and reality of this problem, and get the core message across, there are no static solutions, there is a discussion and working through a relationship. Do parents before they meet the child set a set of rules and work out how they are going to interact with their children.
So ofcourse different things are applicable to different people and situations, some phrase meant for one circumstance do not work in another though the words appear the same. You have got to accept the Lord made things this way and could have worked things out differently. The bible is a rough book, because that is what is needed. The question is about trust, do you trust the Lord and His methods? Because of Jesus, I trust everything He does.
I do not trust those who fake things, who desire something impossible and claim too much without justification.
Now from the response of Joshua, open heaven is something he truly likes. What about you? Are you open to anything a "spiritual" leader will bring, even if it overthrows the core gospel principles. One thing I know about the Lord, he has been working for over 2,000 years and His kingdom is not shrinking. So whatever solution you propose it has to encompass all this human experience. From your hesitancy I suspect you cannot answer these questions which is a problem.
If you could tell me about the transformation of people through love remaking them, I would say Amen. If the movement is just taking disaffected christians from other churches then it is a parasite movement with no future. I could promise anything to a bunch of people, but the crunch comes when the day of delivery is there. Now in my house group we are trying to be more open and sharing, learning the boundaries of our needs and how we can encourage one another.
What amuses me is someone calling me a fake, or empty or without purpose etc. It is like a balloon popping, without any effect or content. If christians do not come to terms with they are humans who are intended to demonstrate they function better than the host community, then the faith means nothing and is just fake fantasy. But maybe this is too hard a challenge for some but not for me.
Ok. I am sorry I miss-understood you. Yes I can read and I have read what you have said and now have a better picture.
I have never been what you where and have been involved in "charismatic" groups and churchs for 30+ years. It sounds like you want everything emotionally sown up, so when an emotional view of God came along, you literally fainted. I am not built like this, and though people faint around me, it has never effected me like this. Now I do not deny the love of God is very overwhelming, but I am beginning to doubt what we are seeing is anything other than great expectation followed by emotional release.
What does seriously concern me is pure naivety. We are emotional beings and Jesus changes us through His love working in our hearts. But whether they are super defensive rigid and inflexible christians or zapped christians on the floor, it is not making them into the image of Jesus with an open heart, walking in the light and sharing good things with those around.
I was thinking why I had a problem with Joshua statement of discernment. In praise we feel like we are in heaven, blessed, a fantastic place that can go on and on. But it is just a place of grace and an emotional high, a place of encouragement along the way. But some think it is a place of reality, we have arrived, and are not broken vessels in great need of change and reality. Unfortunately the opposite is happening, and a tendency to go into the super-natural etc. rather than focus on who people are and what is going on.
For those running away from reality and their emotional true selves, just talking about this makes them very unhappy and will be interpreted as "evil" and wrong. But in truth it is the gospel. "Let you yes be yes and your no be no".
"Be pure in heart". "Mourn you will be comforted". "Meek you will inherit the earth". Pray simply, directly, and know God hears you. "I have come that you might have life to the full" Emotional reality, open and free relationships, spoken from the heart. We are very rich, and the deceitfulness of riches often robes us of the reality of trusting in God.
Now you may be able to help me, but you cannot stop the move of the Lord or His people.
What for me is interesting is for you being slain in the spirit was proof of spiritual authority rather than a statement of you lack of emotional understanding and how much you really love the Lord and need to learn more about who you truly are.
Unfortunately I do not have faith in the great insight either you, or Joshua or Ember have shown, which is a classic example of the fruit of this "move of God." I would call it emotional self deception. You cannot even discern evil spirits taking over meetings but just accept it must be of God because we all feel so high.
What comes close to blasphemy is denial of repentance, love and forgiveness, which is core to walking with Jesus. I am not saying you or your fellowship have gone this far, but some obviously have and yet still claim to be following the Lord.
Does this not concern you at all, with your background or is everything up to question?
I have never been what you where and have been involved in "charismatic" groups and churchs for 30+ years. It sounds like you want everything emotionally sown up, so when an emotional view of God came along, you literally fainted. I am not built like this, and though people faint around me, it has never effected me like this. Now I do not deny the love of God is very overwhelming, but I am beginning to doubt what we are seeing is anything other than great expectation followed by emotional release.
What does seriously concern me is pure naivety. We are emotional beings and Jesus changes us through His love working in our hearts. But whether they are super defensive rigid and inflexible christians or zapped christians on the floor, it is not making them into the image of Jesus with an open heart, walking in the light and sharing good things with those around.
I was thinking why I had a problem with Joshua statement of discernment. In praise we feel like we are in heaven, blessed, a fantastic place that can go on and on. But it is just a place of grace and an emotional high, a place of encouragement along the way. But some think it is a place of reality, we have arrived, and are not broken vessels in great need of change and reality. Unfortunately the opposite is happening, and a tendency to go into the super-natural etc. rather than focus on who people are and what is going on.
For those running away from reality and their emotional true selves, just talking about this makes them very unhappy and will be interpreted as "evil" and wrong. But in truth it is the gospel. "Let you yes be yes and your no be no".
"Be pure in heart". "Mourn you will be comforted". "Meek you will inherit the earth". Pray simply, directly, and know God hears you. "I have come that you might have life to the full" Emotional reality, open and free relationships, spoken from the heart. We are very rich, and the deceitfulness of riches often robes us of the reality of trusting in God.
Now you may be able to help me, but you cannot stop the move of the Lord or His people.
What for me is interesting is for you being slain in the spirit was proof of spiritual authority rather than a statement of you lack of emotional understanding and how much you really love the Lord and need to learn more about who you truly are.
Unfortunately I do not have faith in the great insight either you, or Joshua or Ember have shown, which is a classic example of the fruit of this "move of God." I would call it emotional self deception. You cannot even discern evil spirits taking over meetings but just accept it must be of God because we all feel so high.
What comes close to blasphemy is denial of repentance, love and forgiveness, which is core to walking with Jesus. I am not saying you or your fellowship have gone this far, but some obviously have and yet still claim to be following the Lord.
Does this not concern you at all, with your background or is everything up to question?
Dear reader,
There is a good reason why part of the gospel has always been about maturity and a good emotional life, because that is what salvation is all about, getting sorted, knowing how love works through you appropriately.
It is why our ministers are called pastors, why the work of the church is in good works, a light on a hill, why speaking the truth in love is the cornerstone of who we are.
Now the heresy that has come into the church is the idea that anointing is everything, getting high in worship, supernatural powers, great performances, stadium events etc. But this is actually just show bizz, celebrety and another form of priesthood of performers. How could this come about is because of pride and hypocracy in the church, where being right mattered more than emotional truth, appearing to have everything sorted when nothing was spoken openly, only performing roles. Now both extremes are bad, but going from one to the other does not prove one was right and the other wrong, it just demonstrates how unresolved the emotional lives of the individuals involved really is.
So so many are coming to this realisation, and how easily people wanted false prophets and teachers to show them the way, when the way to reality with Jesus was in them and in the bible all along.
There is a good reason why part of the gospel has always been about maturity and a good emotional life, because that is what salvation is all about, getting sorted, knowing how love works through you appropriately.
It is why our ministers are called pastors, why the work of the church is in good works, a light on a hill, why speaking the truth in love is the cornerstone of who we are.
Now the heresy that has come into the church is the idea that anointing is everything, getting high in worship, supernatural powers, great performances, stadium events etc. But this is actually just show bizz, celebrety and another form of priesthood of performers. How could this come about is because of pride and hypocracy in the church, where being right mattered more than emotional truth, appearing to have everything sorted when nothing was spoken openly, only performing roles. Now both extremes are bad, but going from one to the other does not prove one was right and the other wrong, it just demonstrates how unresolved the emotional lives of the individuals involved really is.
So so many are coming to this realisation, and how easily people wanted false prophets and teachers to show them the way, when the way to reality with Jesus was in them and in the bible all along.
What is the issue here? Empty christians who held only to doctrine had an emotional experience which means all that was before is wrong, and only this new experience is true.
How deep is the truth? Is a hypocrite someone who says they know the truth but does not live it, or someone who denies the truth but is emotionally high while saying it. Both are wrong.
How can you discern failure?
1. Not living a righteous life but living in sin.
2. Not holding to the normal things of life but indulging in strange "spiritual" experiences.
But surely this cannot be. The NAR are the full blown demonstration of this heresy, and the fruit of spiritualism with no restraint. Now any church may be walking the road between the two extremes well, but only if one is honest about the fact they both exist and why. But core to this is knowing what walking with Jesus is.
The problem is as can be seen on the threads many have different emphasis on this. But that is a good thing as long as they can continue to love and encourage those who find it difficult. In part they are probably all true, but only those who hold to love will make it through. When I get attacked for stating the core beliefs of the gospel you know those who do so have lost the plot.
How deep is the truth? Is a hypocrite someone who says they know the truth but does not live it, or someone who denies the truth but is emotionally high while saying it. Both are wrong.
How can you discern failure?
1. Not living a righteous life but living in sin.
2. Not holding to the normal things of life but indulging in strange "spiritual" experiences.
But surely this cannot be. The NAR are the full blown demonstration of this heresy, and the fruit of spiritualism with no restraint. Now any church may be walking the road between the two extremes well, but only if one is honest about the fact they both exist and why. But core to this is knowing what walking with Jesus is.
The problem is as can be seen on the threads many have different emphasis on this. But that is a good thing as long as they can continue to love and encourage those who find it difficult. In part they are probably all true, but only those who hold to love will make it through. When I get attacked for stating the core beliefs of the gospel you know those who do so have lost the plot.
You are the first to state authoritative means we can trust what God said. I agree, but others have state authoritative means to blindly follow each rule and command.
This is why willie and I have been going in circles with those that say it is the latter. Willie does not pet or feed people in the obvious sense, but he is giving them a a very direct answer, but they do not see it. He is proving by his answers, to those that screech and scream about following every command in the Bible, because it is final authority, that have doctrine, but no understanding.
This is why willie and I have been going in circles with those that say it is the latter. Willie does not pet or feed people in the obvious sense, but he is giving them a a very direct answer, but they do not see it. He is proving by his answers, to those that screech and scream about following every command in the Bible, because it is final authority, that have doctrine, but no understanding.
You seem to get so much totally confused that it really does make it difficult to communicate with you. It seems if I say something, you immediately have to assign just the opposite meaning to it... no matter what it is. Perhaps that's just the love of argument in you, I don't know. I just know it makes it nearly impossible to rationally respond to much of what you say.
I have no doubt that Josh is a great guy !
But if you really think that it is perfectly OK (and Christian) to publicly slam another person as a
saboteur, fraud, liar, deceiver, mocker, foolish, absurd, an agent of darkness, etc etc
simply because they hold a different view,
no wonder I'm still sitting on the fence
But if you really think that it is perfectly OK (and Christian) to publicly slam another person as a
saboteur, fraud, liar, deceiver, mocker, foolish, absurd, an agent of darkness, etc etc
simply because they hold a different view,
no wonder I'm still sitting on the fence
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So, Pumicestone, how can we convince you to follow Jesus?
As much as I detest the name calling it is not our external behaviour that determines whether we belong to Jesus Christ. Instead, it is about believing and repenting of our sins. After that, comes the life long process of the Holy Spirit changing us ito the image of Christ. We all fall short of the glory of God, and that means we make mistakes, even after we come to Christ.
I do hope that more people would pay attention to your post though, as you have pointed out the obvious! We are to be witnesses - and that includes in this forum!
As much as I detest the name calling it is not our external behaviour that determines whether we belong to Jesus Christ. Instead, it is about believing and repenting of our sins. After that, comes the life long process of the Holy Spirit changing us ito the image of Christ. We all fall short of the glory of God, and that means we make mistakes, even after we come to Christ.
I do hope that more people would pay attention to your post though, as you have pointed out the obvious! We are to be witnesses - and that includes in this forum!
I am not getting things confused, I just do not agree with your interpretation on events. This confirms to me that you have a very fixed way of interpreting what has happened to you emotionally, spiritually which I find worrying.
Emotional experiences are impossible to pin down because they are based on events and what you think is happening. It does not define truth or what is being said and done. So many have been deceived because of this particular type of manipulations. One test that this is happening is when people define only one framework of understanding and close their mind to other interpretations.
Jesus was always very keen on focusing on sin, victory over desire or the heart, and avoiding hypocracy.
But you do not want to go here, which is obvious, which for me speaks volumes about the failure of your spiritual position.
Many many christians stand where I stand, because we know the Lord and His gospel, not the emotional soup of spiritual highs with exstatic utterances which often add up to nothing. You obviously believe you are the ultimate spiritual experience and want to say who is really close to the Lord and who is not. So I understand that discussion is impossible, because you have left the scene. I wish you well, but feel you are going up a blind alley.
Emotional experiences are impossible to pin down because they are based on events and what you think is happening. It does not define truth or what is being said and done. So many have been deceived because of this particular type of manipulations. One test that this is happening is when people define only one framework of understanding and close their mind to other interpretations.
Jesus was always very keen on focusing on sin, victory over desire or the heart, and avoiding hypocracy.
But you do not want to go here, which is obvious, which for me speaks volumes about the failure of your spiritual position.
Many many christians stand where I stand, because we know the Lord and His gospel, not the emotional soup of spiritual highs with exstatic utterances which often add up to nothing. You obviously believe you are the ultimate spiritual experience and want to say who is really close to the Lord and who is not. So I understand that discussion is impossible, because you have left the scene. I wish you well, but feel you are going up a blind alley.
E
I have no doubt that Josh is a great guy !
But if you really think that it is perfectly OK (and Christian) to publicly slam another person as a
saboteur, fraud, liar, deceiver, mocker, foolish, absurd, an agent of darkness, etc etc
simply because they hold a different view,
no wonder I'm still sitting on the fence
But if you really think that it is perfectly OK (and Christian) to publicly slam another person as a
saboteur, fraud, liar, deceiver, mocker, foolish, absurd, an agent of darkness, etc etc
simply because they hold a different view,
no wonder I'm still sitting on the fence
well I certainly hope it is not one of those pointy wood fences!!
and of course you are intelligent enough to know that blaming another person for your dipping your toes but not actually hopping in, is lame
thanks for answering though
ps...I should add this ...Jesus called certain people hypocrites, sons of satan, white washed tombs and a variety of other things...all of which were not name calling
some of the people in this thread do not even know why they are here other then to mock...where does mockery come from?
Paul was not exactly an altar boy either...
and, I am not saying it is a case of Jesus called someone a liar and used a whip on someone so we can do the same...I AM saying that not all Christians are helpful....and not all unhelpful Christians who say they are Christians ARE Christians
I hope that was ambiguous enough for you to read between the lines
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Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
They went out and preached that people should repent.
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?
For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
to give his people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.
See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.
Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.
I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap.
I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.
He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.
So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
The above is just a summary. Everything in the gospel is about sin, its nature and how you conquer it. Without conquering sin there is no salvation, no perfection, no communion with the Lord, no righteousness and no hope.
Only a man who does not know Jesus would suggest Jesus did not focus on Sin, its causes and its final victory.
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
They went out and preached that people should repent.
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’?
For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
to give his people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.
See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.
Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.
I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap.
I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.
He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.
So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
The above is just a summary. Everything in the gospel is about sin, its nature and how you conquer it. Without conquering sin there is no salvation, no perfection, no communion with the Lord, no righteousness and no hope.
Only a man who does not know Jesus would suggest Jesus did not focus on Sin, its causes and its final victory.
Dear reader,
If you might notice on the threads created many talk about sinless perfection or grace overcoming failure. Christians argue about what perfection is, what is walking in the light, decipleship, how the heart is transformed into the likeness of christ and this is all about what is sin. Paul the apostle dedicated a letter to discuss the nature of sin, and the nature of conquering it. The apostles went to great lengths to list out behaviour they considered un-acceptable in a man of God, and how you could walk in the spirit.
So for me it is weired in the extreme for a man claiming to be a christian to suggest this is not the issue of the faith, of everything including life and of Jesus's ministry. But then I would say this summarises spiritual blindness in its ultimate expression, and which testifies walking with the Lord is no simple matter and many will call you terrible things for standing for righteousness and the truth.
If you might notice on the threads created many talk about sinless perfection or grace overcoming failure. Christians argue about what perfection is, what is walking in the light, decipleship, how the heart is transformed into the likeness of christ and this is all about what is sin. Paul the apostle dedicated a letter to discuss the nature of sin, and the nature of conquering it. The apostles went to great lengths to list out behaviour they considered un-acceptable in a man of God, and how you could walk in the spirit.
So for me it is weired in the extreme for a man claiming to be a christian to suggest this is not the issue of the faith, of everything including life and of Jesus's ministry. But then I would say this summarises spiritual blindness in its ultimate expression, and which testifies walking with the Lord is no simple matter and many will call you terrible things for standing for righteousness and the truth.
Dear reader,
Two people have now called me a liar. Now think a little logically about this. To be a liar you have to actually lie about something. Now I have quoted scripture, I have quoted Jesus and his gospel. I have spoken about things preached for 2000 years, by every believing christian yet I am a liar.
I would suggest what these people are talking about is their own spiritual poverty when they believed these words, not the words themselves. It creates a weired contradiction, which is the words are not true, not because they are not, but because they do not feel they are emotionally expressed in the individuals. The problem is this is actually agreeing with the accuser of the bretheren and suggesting righteous good people are hypocrites without evidence. This is just emotional bias and hatred.
I would not mind if I had lied and I could be corrected, but it does not exist, it is just slander. Jesus says I should rejoice, and should Halleluyah because likewise were the prophets of old slandered and persecuted.
To those christians reading this, I encourage you to understand, truth is worth dying for, because there is nothing else of value, and that is what Jesus came to show us in his life. To any non-christians, from the bottom of my heart, the love expressed by Jesus transformed me over my life, and brought wholeness and joy where there was only brokeness and emptiness, to the point that few believe I could raise a balanced healthy family of well adjusted people and have such a background, so I say, walk with Jesus a little bit, and you will find as I did, his love truly works.
Two people have now called me a liar. Now think a little logically about this. To be a liar you have to actually lie about something. Now I have quoted scripture, I have quoted Jesus and his gospel. I have spoken about things preached for 2000 years, by every believing christian yet I am a liar.
I would suggest what these people are talking about is their own spiritual poverty when they believed these words, not the words themselves. It creates a weired contradiction, which is the words are not true, not because they are not, but because they do not feel they are emotionally expressed in the individuals. The problem is this is actually agreeing with the accuser of the bretheren and suggesting righteous good people are hypocrites without evidence. This is just emotional bias and hatred.
I would not mind if I had lied and I could be corrected, but it does not exist, it is just slander. Jesus says I should rejoice, and should Halleluyah because likewise were the prophets of old slandered and persecuted.
To those christians reading this, I encourage you to understand, truth is worth dying for, because there is nothing else of value, and that is what Jesus came to show us in his life. To any non-christians, from the bottom of my heart, the love expressed by Jesus transformed me over my life, and brought wholeness and joy where there was only brokeness and emptiness, to the point that few believe I could raise a balanced healthy family of well adjusted people and have such a background, so I say, walk with Jesus a little bit, and you will find as I did, his love truly works.
Dear reader,
I have been in great discussions with muslims before and the Lord has taught me to trust in Him and His principles and speak with authority about the simple basics of life. I did not expect such an argument here, but the beginning of the division has started. There is no simple solution, but much reality has to be declared. Many false prophets and teachers have appeared who have lied, miss-led and polluted the simple realities of life and the gospel.
Now those who do not follow the Lord need to be scared, because the foundation of where they stand will be removed.
This is not my work but the Lords. Years ago I would have said nothing, because I had no experience or insight, but things have changed and now I know and see much that is wrong. But it is up to you to wake up and start to be honest about your life and where you stand in the Lord.
The Lord came with a simple challenge. Repent of your sins, be baptised and walk in His love and righteousness.
We have let wealth and the world steal this goal from us, with TV and songs and propoganda, so much so to say this basic reality is called evil or wrong. Do you know which spirit talks like this? It is not the Holy Spirit, so you have to decide where your faith really is, it is that simple. I know I love Jesus and his ways, I hope you can join me as well.
I have been in great discussions with muslims before and the Lord has taught me to trust in Him and His principles and speak with authority about the simple basics of life. I did not expect such an argument here, but the beginning of the division has started. There is no simple solution, but much reality has to be declared. Many false prophets and teachers have appeared who have lied, miss-led and polluted the simple realities of life and the gospel.
Now those who do not follow the Lord need to be scared, because the foundation of where they stand will be removed.
This is not my work but the Lords. Years ago I would have said nothing, because I had no experience or insight, but things have changed and now I know and see much that is wrong. But it is up to you to wake up and start to be honest about your life and where you stand in the Lord.
The Lord came with a simple challenge. Repent of your sins, be baptised and walk in His love and righteousness.
We have let wealth and the world steal this goal from us, with TV and songs and propoganda, so much so to say this basic reality is called evil or wrong. Do you know which spirit talks like this? It is not the Holy Spirit, so you have to decide where your faith really is, it is that simple. I know I love Jesus and his ways, I hope you can join me as well.
Peter, one thing that might help your posts is if you actually referenced the Scriptures you are using. I am aware you do quote the Bible a lot, but others might not be familar with the verses, and sometimes it is nice to look up the verse in context, to see what they mean in the passage and the chapter.
A little less rambling might also help. I think you do have some good thoughts, but trying and be a bit more concise will help those of us who are reading your posts. It also might help you to organize what you are trying to say.
A little less rambling might also help. I think you do have some good thoughts, but trying and be a bit more concise will help those of us who are reading your posts. It also might help you to organize what you are trying to say.