The Role of the Woman

[ember]

well, I like to look at 1 tim 2

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+tim+2&version=NASB

we see that men's role is stuff like praying, giving thanks, lifting up holy hands...

women's role is stuff like dressing right, be taught with complete submissiveness, and be preserved by having kids...

does this sound right to you? it doesn't to me... maybe it's kind of like slavery... what maybe made sense in Paul's day doesn't today...

There have been exhaustive studies done on the role of men and women in the Bible

This, is not one of them


what are you trying to say exactly

Paul said nothing to slightly indicate any such misconceptions...

 

[CeileDe]

Ok lets break this topic down. Lets examine Genesis, when this all took place.

Gen 3:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be for[SUP][f][/SUP] your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

I believe this is self explanatory. This was woman's punishment and it was meant for all women. Do women still have pain at birth? So we must conclude that all of this still applies because if it didn't then your pain at birth should have departed as well.


[SUP]17 [/SUP]And to Adam he said,
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”

Does this still apply for men? Yes we have created machinery to help us with farming and working but we still have to work hard for what we have. Another important part of this verse is God accused Adam of listening to the voice of his wife. I feel this is a big part of what Paul was talking about. So lets just stick with these verses and get some comments. Lets keep it civil and just look at what God is trying to tell us.

 

[ember]

I think this thread has exhuasted itself for me

but don't let me discourage anyone else

 

[Dan_473]

So then none of the bible should make sense today as in Paul's day. You can't pick and choose what fits today and what doesn't. Either the Bible is truth or it isn't. So lets just allow sex before marriage, adultery, idolatry, murder etc... Your stance doesn't make sense unless you believe this true throughout everything in the bible

I do believe it's true throughout the bible... the bible requires subtlety, imo...

check this out... if you were captured by slavers, would you try to escape, or would you submit to your master, as Paul teaches?

 

[Dan_473]

Paul said nothing to slightly indicate any such misconceptions...

I believe he did... would you like to talk about any of the ideas I presented?

 

[ember]

I believe he did... would you like to talk about any of the ideas I presented?

sure...would you mind to start a new thread because I think this one has actually run the course of its intended target audience

but start the thread and will join you there as time permists

thanks

 

[Dan_473]

Does this still apply for men?

I don't think it does... when Noah is born, it is prophecied that he will "give us rest concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord has cursed."

then after the flood, God says "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake."

 

[Dan_473]

sure...would you mind to start a new thread because I think this one has actually run the course of its intended target audience

but start the thread and will join you there as time permists

thanks

sorry, I don't like the idea of starting a new thread... this thread already has all of the context that my posts were put up in...

so, if you like, we can talk about the things I mentioned

or something you want to talk about...

 

[CeileDe]

I do believe it's true throughout the bible... the bible requires subtlety, imo...

check this out... if you were captured by slavers, would you try to escape, or would you submit to your master, as Paul teaches?

Are we talking about today or 2000 years ago? In a way we are slaves to a system today. There are many things I disagree with within the country I live in. Do I rebel and fight my government? No, I do the best I can to live with the decisions it makes. Slavery in the OT wasn't all about beating your slave and treating them bad. Granted it seems the Egyptians did this to the Jews, but we also need to look at why the Jews were in captivity. Wasn't this Gods punishment to them for disobeying Him? We can also look at us working as a form of slavery. We have someone we work for, even though it is our choice, we must obey the rules of our employer or we will get punished for it. Granted we don't get beat or anything like this, but there is punishment. Could this be a form of slavery? We must obey our employers rules or there are consequences for our actions. I know I am sounding like I'm trying to beat around the bush but I would hope I would obey God in what happens in my life. Eventually we are all going to get put into a position where we are persecuted and even arrested for our beliefs. Do we rejoice in our persecution for Christ or do we disregard the examples the Apostles left us and rebel against those that persecute us? I would hope I rejoice in the persecution and have the strength through Christ to stand strong in my faith to endure.

 

[Dan_473]

Are we talking about today or 2000 years ago? In a way we are slaves to a system today. There are many things I disagree with within the country I live in. Do I rebel and fight my government? No, I do the best I can to live with the decisions it makes. Slavery in the OT wasn't all about beating your slave and treating them bad. Granted it seems the Egyptians did this to the Jews, but we also need to look at why the Jews were in captivity. Wasn't this Gods punishment to them for disobeying Him? We can also look at us working as a form of slavery. We have someone we work for, even though it is our choice, we must obey the rules of our employer or we will get punished for it. Granted we don't get beat or anything like this, but there is punishment. Could this be a form of slavery? We must obey our employers rules or there are consequences for our actions. I know I am sounding like I'm trying to beat around the bush but I would hope I would obey God in what happens in my life. Eventually we are all going to get put into a position where we are persecuted and even arrested for our beliefs. Do we rejoice in our persecution for Christ or do we disregard the examples the Apostles left us and rebel against those that persecute us? I would hope I rejoice in the persecution and have the strength through Christ to stand strong in my faith to endure.

there are slave traders in the world today... if one were to grab you, lock you in a trunk, take you to a place where slavery is practiced... would you try to escape? or submit? suppose your child was captured?

 

[CeileDe]

there are slave traders in the world today... if one were to grab you, lock you in a trunk, take you to a place where slavery is practiced... would you try to escape? or submit? suppose your child was captured?

Not even going to respond to this line of questioning. Evidently you don't even understand how slavery was in the OT and NT.

 

[CeileDe]

Dan you are going on ignore. God bless

 

[kaylagrl]

well, this op is garnered from Brother Jonathan Crosby of the Church of Greenville

they are independant...and are perfect according to the website

We are strictly an independent congregation of saints without a denominational label or obligation. We are not tied to any association, convention, denomination, fellowship, organization, or university. We are a simple group of believers with a serving pastor striving to obey and worship Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Without denominational bondage or influence, we are free to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit through His preserved Word.
If you must give us a label, we are Baptists. We baptize the same way John the Baptist baptized our Lord Jesus Christ. We baptize the same way the apostles baptized their converts. We require repentance and faith before baptism, and we baptize by immersion in water. We have a simple church government without popes, cardinals, archbishops, priests, or other manmade offices. Neither do we have apostles or prophets, as those Scriptural offices went away after the implementation of the New Testament order among Christ's disciples.
Are there other Baptist churches like us? A few. We have similarities with the Primitive Baptists, the Particular Baptists, the Sovereign Grace Baptists, and the Reformed Baptists, among others.
Are there any established church creeds to which you hold? We hold to the Bible, as the Holy Spirit leads us to understand it. But if you want to see some historical Baptist creeds with which we find much agreement, we recommend you look at these two:
The First London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1646 (Second Edition)
The Midlands Baptist Confession of Faith of 1655

Ya sensed that as soon as I read the OP. Funny how these groups always pick on how the woman should act,never the men.smh

 

[kaylagrl]

Marriage is in rapid decline along with birthrates, especially among young adults.

See: U.S. marriage rate hits new low and may continue to decline | Deseret News National

See: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_01.pdf

I wonder what percentage of Christian women walk into the voting booth and vote for more and more radical feminism.

Pretty soon only homosexuals will be getting married and babies will have to be produced in test tubes if these radical feminist anti-male leftist policies and resulting trends continue driving men in Western societies way from marriage and fatherhood en masse.

You may not like Mary's post, and yes it's myopic and one-dimensional, but I'd marry a woman like that and form a nuclear family with her and so would every male I know.

You feminists, I wouldn't touch you with a ten-foot pole. I'll go to my grave single before I'll enter into a government legal contract that renders me powerless which you then nullify making me your government man-slave for potentially the rest of my natural life. THAT is NEVER going to happen. Go pound sand. Period.

The wicked killed off the righteous in Noah's generation forcing God to initiate a hard reset. This "generation" will do it simply by driving away all the good men so only the immoral reproduce.

Disagreeing with the OP does not make a woman a feminist. Thats is generalizing. What man would want a woman who is supposed to meet his every sexual need in every position. I think the head of this church has been doing some viewing in secret and I dont mean better homes and gardens. The OP makes a Christian woman no different than a Muslim woman. Ridiculous ! and dangerous!

 

[kaylagrl]

What was so hard for me is a wife's role when the husband/father is abusive. It's clear what to do if he is not saved, but if he has been saved and being abusive, I have often wondered where you draw the line to being submissive and taking the side of the children, etc. I wouldn't wish such a situation on any Christian wife.

You always take the side of the children in abusive situations,never,ever submit !! Ever! A Christian man would never abuse,if he does hes not a Christian!!!

 

[kaylagrl]

Because you're so interested in my personal life (only in a bad way for the purpose of ad hominem) Nautilus, I'll give you another tidbit.

Recently, this year, I had to again change churches (from one typical evangelical assembly to another typical evangelical assembly). The reason for this is because yet another woman in her thirties that was one of my plutonic female friends "fell in love" with me.
I explained to her that there was no future for us as a married couple because if I marry her I'll lose the legal power I presently enjoy as a non-married individual and enter into a state in which men have lost virtually all of their legal protections and liable for outright exploitation (even with a prenup in this state).

I explained the nightmare stories of men going to prison after becoming sick and losing their job and the madness and severe persecution that I'd seen friends of mine who were male have to endure for decades after a divorce... how there's no time period or amount of distance, legal contract or legal status, that can truly be said to protect a man after a divorce and that you have literally no angle of protection or legal status to escape it. You can (and many do) lose everything including your children.

I told her I'd die before I'd sign an ungodly legal contract that reduced me to THAT.

She said, "but I LOVE you." I said, love someone else because I'll never marry under the present feminist gulag system. I distanced myself from her immediately but she wouldn't stop. Apparently, she was in love with me. So then people started approaching me about it. I told them look I have a lot of friends. Many of them are women. I am a genuine Christian and these relationships are plutonic. They are NOT sinful. They said she had told them that and they understood that.

I told them if the laws were different, I'd already be married. But the laws are NOT different and I'm not going to violate my liberty and integrity to legally contract myself to a state of powerless human slavery where I can be legally raped by the government forever after she divorces me.

But, I could see it wasn't going to stop, so I left. Now I'm making new friends. Many of them are female. Wash, rinse, repeat. Fortunately there are a lot of churches where I live. A lot of them. So, it's going to be OK.

What the duck ?!?

 

[kaylagrl]

I guess you could always make a sammich

Pass em around K?

 

[Dan_473]

Not even going to respond to this line of questioning. Evidently you don't even understand how slavery was in the OT and NT.

if you want to talk about it, I'm interested in learning new things.

 

[Dan_473]

Dan you are going on ignore. God bless

I totally understand. and thanks for the blessing.

 

[kaylagrl]

The Role of the Woman


The Woman Is a Helper

1. God made it a man’s world, and Eve was created to be his helping companion (Gen 2:18-25).
2. Therefore, a woman should not be looking for her glory in life, but rather for her husband’s.
3. She should not be looking to find her own fulfillment apart from her husband’s, but in his!
4. There is no such thing as a helpmeet – God made a helper appropriate, fit, meet, or suitable
5. for Adam. This distinction is important, so women cannot escape the obvious – be a helper!
6. Remember that the woman was made for the man, not the other way around; though a man
7. may do many things for his wife, yet the primary relationship should be upheld (I Cor 11:9).
8. The order of creation is important, for it indicates her subordinate role in life (I Tim 2:11-13).
9. There are four ways a woman can help a man – praise, support, comfort, defend (Ec 4:9-12).
10. Abigail, one of the most desirable women in the Bible, understood helping (I Sam 25:39-42).
11. Though without formal office in the church, they can be very useful helpers (Rom 16:1-2).
12. Therefore, women should plan, prepare, and perform as helpers to their husbands’ lives.
13. Girls must be taught this role for their future; wives must rise each day to fulfill this role.

The Woman Is a Subject

1. Because of Eve’s folly with the devil, she was demoted to subjection to Adam, which God
2. declares to be the subordination of her desires to his desires and his rule over her (Gen 3:16).
3. God’s order of authority in life is God, Christ, the man, and then the woman (I Cor 11:3).
4. Her duty to be silent in subjection is based on her failure in the Garden (I Timothy 2:11-14).
5. God clearly defined a wife’s relationship as one of reverent subjection in fear, in which role
6. she exalts a meek and quiet spirit over all the outward adorning of other women (I Pet 3:1-6).
7. She is to submit to her husband in everything short of sinning, and she is to do this as unto
8. the Lord, and because it is fit in the Lord (Ephesians 5:22-24,33; Colossians 3:18).
9. No matter what the world does to wedding vows, a wife is to obey her husband (Titus 2:5).
10. Therefore, women are to be modest, shamefaced, meek, and quiet (I Tim 2:9-10; I Pet 3:3-4)
11. When she chafes or rebels against this role, she becomes odious and unbearable to humanity,
12. and especially her husband (Pr 12:4; 19:13; 21:9,19; 25:24; 27:15-16; 30:21-23).
13. Subjection is no more demeaning or onerous than children being subject to their parents,
14. servants being subject to their masters, and citizens being subject to their political rulers.
15. Every husband is just as bound to submit to his parents, his master, and his government.
16. Girls must be taught this role for their future; wives must rise each day to fulfill this role.

The Woman Is a Follower

1. As a submissive helper, the woman is clearly the follower of the man, who leads her in life.
2. Paul described marriage as a brother leading about a sister, which is a good thing (I Cor 9:5).
3. She is to have a meek and quiet spirit, which precludes contention (Pr 27:15-16; I Pet 3:3-4).
4. When she is confused by teaching in an assembly, she follows her husband (I Cor 14:34-35).
5. When Abraham moved to unknown places, Sarah went with him as his submissive helper.
6. When Noah built a big boat in the backyard, Mrs. Noah got in it with him, as his follower.
7. Should a woman take the name of her husband? By all means! Look at Eve, who was first
8. called Adam (Gen 5:1-2)! Only later did he give her the personal name of Eve (Gen 3:20).
9. Should a woman leave her family for her husband? Yes! Look at Rebecca (Gen 24:54-67)!
10. When any relationship has too many chiefs and not enough Indians, there will be trouble.
11. A godly woman will follow her husband and always direct her children to follow their father.
12. However, a woman never follows her husband into sin (I Sam 25:19; Acts 5:29; I Pet 3:6).

The Woman Is a Lover

1. The book of Song of Solomon is a love story of a very aggressive and erotic woman, which
2. is both an example of a virtuous Christian wife and the love of Jesus Christ by His saints.
3. The Bible is plain about a wife giving due benevolence to her husband, which is lovemaking
4. he desires and needs: when, where, how, and how often he wants it; she does not have the
5. rights, claim, or authority of her own body; he has the right to her body (I Corinthians 7:1-5).
6. A man’s safety from fornication and adultery is a loving and erotic wife, which requires her
7. to show some of the strange woman’s knowledge, skill, and creativity (Pr 5:19; Heb 13:4).
8. How did Abimelech know Isaac and Rebekah were married by sporting in a field (Ge 26:8)?
9. Sex is a very good thing; it should not be despised at all; it should just be limited to marriage.
10. Godly women dress modestly before all other men (Is 3:16-26; I Tim 2:9-10; I Peter 3:1-4).

The Woman Is a Mother

1. Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of our human race (Gen 3:20).
2. Consider the wise and loving blessing of the parents and family to Rebekah (Genesis 24:60).
3. Before thinking about her motherly duties, every woman must realize she is a wife first.
4. A woman that dotes on her children and not her husband is no woman at all: she will pay.
5. A godly woman knows that children she bears are her husband’s first, as every genealogy in
6. the Bible clearly indicates, and as Hagar, Bilhah, and Zilpah indicate (Pr 5:16-18; Ps 128:3).
7. However, a mother does love her children from the nursing stage to the adult stage with near
8. unconditional affection that makes them tender and only beloved in her sight (Prov 4:3).
9. God expects women to bear children and to love their children (I Timothy 5:14; Titus 2:4-5).
10. A barren womb, or a selfish husband, is a painful thing to a woman; and though a wife must
11. submit to her husband, even in this matter, he should be mercifully considerate (Pr 30:15-16).
12. It is a shame when choleric or otherwise untaught women take on an overbearing, critical,
13. suggesting role in the lives of their children, especially married, that drive them away.

The Woman Is a Domestic

1. A domestic is a household servant – we mean that a woman is the overseer of the home.
2. Husbands were charged with business and war away from home, but not wives (Deut 24:5).
3. The chief trait of a virtuous woman is her varied household and family duties (Pr 31:10-31).
4. Paul exalted her role as guide over domestic aspects of a family (I Tim 5:14; Titus 2:3-5).
5. The words, “keepers at home,” from Titus 2:5, are defined by comparing to I Timothy 5:13.

• These words do not mean she has to stay at home all the time, as even extremists admit.
• These words do not mean she cannot work outside the home, as Prov 31:10-31 shows.
• However, a husband may want his wife to stay at home, which then becomes her duty.
• These words condemn being an idle wanderer, busybody, and tattler (I Timothy 5:13).

The Woman Is a Worker

1. If the woman was created to be a helper, she is obviously a worker doing things (Gen 2:18).
2. The obvious and most important trait of the virtuous woman is hard work; and if the Bible is
3. true, then this character trait should be promoted to girls and sought by men (Prov 31:10-31).
4. This chapter deals the deathblow to that Catholic, Victorian, Dobson, or other perversion of
5. the truth that treats women like decorative ornaments having a life of leisure and recreation.
6. This chapter deals the deathblow to the women who stay at home and surf the Internet, etc.
7. The virtuous woman was active outside in real estate development and manufacturing.
8. Of course, it is the husband’s will that dictates if and when and how a woman works outside.
9. It is the curse of a nation when its daughters – young women – are idle (Ezekiel 16:49).

The Woman Is a Teacher

1. She does more than have sex, conceive, give birth, nurse, cook, clothe, dust, and do laundry.
2. Solomon, though having no wife close to his ability, included a mother’s rules (Pr 1:8; 6:20).
3. Lois and Eunice were two women who fulfilled their teaching role well (II Tim 1:5; 3:15).
4. Hannah had young Samuel worshipping the Lord around 5 years of age (I Samuel 1:28).
5. Abigail taught the man after God’s heart, and he appreciated the lesson (I Samuel 25:32-35).
6. Priscilla helped instruct mighty Apollos in the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:24-28).
7. The aged women with experience and maturity should teach younger women (Titus 2:3-5).
8. Of course, a woman must increase efforts, if her husband is lazy, carnal, or unconverted.

The Woman Is an Heir

1. There is no sexual difference in Jesus Christ eternally, legally, vitally, practically, or finally;
2. there is only a difference in office and relationship while here on earth (Gal 3:28).
3. Husbands had better recognize it, remember it, and consider it well (Mal 2:10-16; I Pet 3:7).
4. Mary and other women, who were devoted to Jesus Christ, were superior to most of the men.
5. Anna and Dorcas were superior to many of the men by their servant spirits and spirituality.
6. As an heir, she must exalt her spirit over her body (Isaiah 3:16-26; I Tim 2:9-10; I Pet 3:3-4).
7. Every woman must have a personal relationship with God unaffected by her husband: it is
8. only by this relationship that she will have spiritual grace and strength to be a great woman

​

The Woman Is a Glory

1. God’s greatest creation is not the Milky Way, the stars, our own sun and moon, the oceans,
2. mountain grandeur, flowing brooks, gentle breezes, the lion, the flamingo, or pretty flowers!
3. What in the world did Adam think after viewing all of creation and then meeting naked Eve!
4. The woman is the glorious object of desire and pleasure and pride of a man, as the man is the
5. comparable glory of God by his role of dominion in the world (I Cor 11:7 cp Esther 1:10-11).
6. The woman adds to her visible glory by adorning herself with long hair (I Corinthians 11:15).
7. A man is greatly blessed by God, when he finds one of these fantastic gifts (Pr 18:22; 19:14).A wise man will cherish and nurture his wife to make her the most glorifying wife possible

​

Conclusion:

1. No matter what the world thinks or says, God has spoken; and like every other subjects, that settles it!
2. How can some of the happiest women be those with bad marriages or situations? Because they love the Lord their God with all their hearts, minds, souls, and strength, and they love their husbands also.
3. You can never protect yourself from emotional damage by reserving or withdrawing your love or
4. obedience; you protect yourself from emotional damage by trusting in the Lord entirely (Is 26:3-4).
5. Women should remember that subordinate role to their husbands as “unto the Lord” (Ephesians 5:22).
6. Fathers must keep these things in mind to provide husbands for his daughters that will make it easier.

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/role-of-the-woman.pdf

With all due respect to your post this is dangerous and an abusive view of marriage and the role of women.Without going into deep detail I have seen what "Christian" taught abuse can do. A family member suffered greatly and I feared for her safety because she married a man with these very views. We must be very,very careful how we teach men to treat women. We are not part of the Muslim faith and Christian women shouldnt be treated as though they are.