Warning! Catholic church is a FALSE religion

[NazariteNation]

What I find peculiar is that those who appear to be the most adamantly against Catholicism are those who believe in Eternal Security and that the gifts of the spirit are no longer relevant for today. If you study your church history you will learn that both teachings clearly originated in the Catholic church, centuries after the early church fathers had died and supposedly, by the own admission, "new revelation" had ceased.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I'd believe that Naz.. in order to stifle and control the church population , the catholics not only prevented personal bible study, they also told the lie that gifts etc had ceased now that they had their bishops and church structure.

 

[dutchpuppy]

As I understand it, Catholics (unless they are some weird splinter group, perhaps the "Mary Society") do NOT worship Mary. They revere and appreciate her(but I don't like seeing all the images in some older Catholic churches). Ask Catholics about this and not just one and see what they say. I've asked many and all say they do NOT worship Mary. I ask people to pray for me, like folks in here. Catholics ask Mary to pray for them. I don't know how that works, a dead? person praying for them...or maybe she skipped death (I hear it both ways).

I could never be a Catholic as it is too passive for me but I have met some amazing Christian Catholics that were incredibly inspiring and bore a LOT of fruit. I often meet former Catholics and they seem to change to other churches maybe for the same reason I could never handle it.

Basically, there are too many generalizations in the thread here and not enough facts. I just thought I'd mention about the Mary worship. Like I mentioned above, there is something called the "Mary Society" but I've never met someone who was part of it and I have met probably 10,000 Catholics or so.

 

[cephas316]

Roman Catholicism denies justification by grace alone and the sole Mediatorship of Christ by:

1)ITS DOCTRINE OF MARY :"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
(New Catholic Catechism, paragraph 969; http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2C.HTM)

2) ITS DOCTRINE OF FORGIVENESS THROUGH THE CHURCH:
There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive. "There is no one, however wicked and guilty, who may not confidently hope for forgiveness, provided his repentance is honest.Christ who died for all men desires that in his Church the gates of forgiveness should always be open to anyone who turns away from sin.
(New Catholic Catechism, paragraph 982; http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2F.HTM


The list goes on and on. I suggest to those who don't believe me , that they go READ the cathechism for themselves and see if it agrees with Scripture.

More than one way to God : Muslims also included in the plan of salvation (Denial of CHRIST ALONE):
The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
(New Catholic Catechism, paragraph 841; http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM)


CANON I : ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST:
If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.
(http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent.htm)

(and many more anethemas against things that all true Protestants believe; No Pope has ever struck down Trent; it was confirmed in the last century by the Vatican II council.)

Hebrew 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Hebrews 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[MahogonySnail]

As I understand it, Catholics (unless they are some weird splinter group, perhaps the "Mary Society") do NOT worship Mary. They revere and appreciate her(but I don't like seeing all the images in some older Catholic churches). Ask Catholics about this and not just one and see what they say. I've asked many and all say they do NOT worship Mary. I ask people to pray for me, like folks in here. Catholics ask Mary to pray for them. I don't know how that works, a dead? person praying for them...or maybe she skipped death (I hear it both ways).

But what the Catholics say , contradicts their actions. If they don't worship Mary, why are there statues of Mary everywhere. Why do they venerate her in their prayers. Mary is a very common name. They seem to mention her name more than the name of Jesus.
No one can tell me that isn't worship.
They call her "Holy Mary, Mother of God".
Now I can't find anywhere in the bible that calls Mary "Mother of God".
"Revere and appreciate" might as well be called worship.

 

[roaringkitten]

What I find peculiar is that those who appear to be the most adamantly against Catholicism are those who believe in Eternal Security and that the gifts of the spirit are no longer relevant for today. If you study your church history you will learn that both teachings clearly originated in the Catholic church, centuries after the early church fathers had died and supposedly, by the own admission, "new revelation" had ceased.

Those that teach you are not secure in Christ ALONE for salvation(ie: requiring works in addition to faith or lose salvation), as clearly evidenced in the Word of God are not teaching sound doctrine. Because those that came to Christ under condemnation of the law do not even THINK they have a license to sin! They recognize the INFINITE love of Christ and what He done...

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Jude 1:3-4

Ungodly men are those that never came to Christ through the law for the forgiveness of sins. Notice that "ungodly men" are not referring to Christians, but to those that crept in thinking they have salvation because they were led in the WRONG idea out Christ....Because where is boasting in Christ Jesus? To say that we did ANYTHING(good works) to get salvation???

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

To claim that those that teach eternal security are promoting sin depends on WHO the person is that is teaching it! A wolf in sheep's clothing can preach it too!.....But a Christian, who understands grace, does not even think for a second that they have a license to sin! See Romans 3.....Particularly Romans 3:8

"And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose ****ation is just."

These are the wicked who pervert the gospel, who say that sinning promotes more goodness(that grace may abound)....So, I dont go by church history more than relying on the Word of God.

 

[roaringkitten]

I want to urge you all to MAKE SURE you are in the faith!

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” Galatians 1:6-9

God strongly rebukes those that would pervert the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ(see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4) and who preaches it!.....There are MANY false gospels out there that masquerade as the truth. Some are so subtle that MANY will be deceived on the day they meet Jesus!

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

You can study the Bible, do good works all you like, but if you think that salvation comes by good works mixed with faith then you are deceived and condemned...Mixing up the fruits of salvation with the object of our faith can cost man his eternity. I am warning you because I care and love you all....Whatever denomination you are a part of, they must teach the gospel by faith alone.....run, escape any church that teaches any perversion of the gospel....Expose them and warn others about it!

If anyone is still confused about salvation feel free to message me and I would be more than happy to explain it to you!

 

[NazariteNation]

Those that teach you are not secure in Christ ALONE for salvation(ie: requiring works in addition to faith or lose salvation), as clearly evidenced in the Word of God are not teaching sound doctrine. Because those that came to Christ under condemnation of the law do not even THINK they have a license to sin! They recognize the INFINITE love of Christ and what He done...

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Jude 1:3-4

Ungodly men are those that never came to Christ through the law for the forgiveness of sins. Notice that "ungodly men" are not referring to Christians, but to those that crept in thinking they have salvation because they were led in the WRONG idea out Christ....Because where is boasting in Christ Jesus? To say that we did ANYTHING(good works) to get salvation???

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

To claim that those that teach eternal security are promoting sin depends on WHO the person is that is teaching it! A wolf in sheep's clothing can preach it too!.....But a Christian, who understands grace, does not even think for a second that they have a license to sin! See Romans 3.....Particularly Romans 3:8

"And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose ****ation is just."

These are the wicked who pervert the gospel, who say that sinning promotes more goodness(that grace may abound)....So, I dont go by church history more than relying on the Word of God.

Roaring you really need to research the history of your faith. If you only knew the truth concerning the founders of your faith and the sins they committed (which includes burning people at the stake who did not agree with them) you would be appalled of how OSAS came into existance.

Anyways... this is a Catholic thread and yes OSAS is a Catholic doctrine.

 

[NazariteNation]

Roaring you really need to research the history of your faith. If you only knew the truth concerning the founders of your faith and the sins they committed (which includes burning people at the stake who did not agree with them) you would be appalled of how OSAS came into existance.

Anyways... this is a Catholic thread and yes OSAS is a Catholic doctrine.

In fact, Augustine, the man who originally came up with the concept of OSAS also preached that one could be saved by water baptism, he helped establish the herecy known as purgatory, and he also helped to establish the "perpetual virginity" of Mary and claimed that she too never sinned not once in her life thus the reverence or worship of the virgin mary.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I don't think OSAS is a catholic doctrine. They believe salvation can be lost.

 

[Lil_warrior]

the "virgin" mary is no longer virgin, how can people not understand that? she stayed virgin until marriage. then she was with her husband, and he knew her. and they had relations and lived like every other couple. they had kids! c'mon, if Mary had "perpetual virginity," so do i. and she did sin, because Mary tells her cousin Elizabeth, in Luke Chap. 1:47, that she rejoices in God her Savior. her Savior, if she hadn't sinned, she didn't have to be saved, so she wouldn't need a Savior.

 

[roaringkitten]

Naz....I've researched church history......But Im not going to base my beliefs on what "history of man" says.....Sure I do look at history from time to time, but I do not use it as a measure for my beliefs...eternal security is not a separate doctrine apart from salvation. I hope you are placing your faith in Christ alone for salvation......No works of ANY KIND will be justified before God! Only by faith in Christ can man be saved.....I've layed dozens and dozens of Scriptures to support eternal security. I live for the Lord harder knowing I'm secured in Christ. Not because Im fearful that I can lose salvation.

I will rebuke in love those that teach a works gospel.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I live for the Lord harder knowing I'm secured in Christ.

So roaringkitten are you saying that the OSAS doctrine has helped you do more works than you would have otherwise?

 

[NazariteNation]

In fact, Augustine, the man who originally came up with the concept of OSAS also preached that one could be saved by water baptism, he helped establish the herecy known as purgatory, and he also helped to establish the "perpetual virginity" of Mary and claimed that she too never sinned not once in her life thus the reverence or worship of the virgin mary.

My point is this... Considering Augustine laid down the foundation for Purgatori, the Perpetual Virgin, and Salvation through Water Baptism... Can you honestly trust OSAS which can indeed be historically traced back to Augustine and no earlier?

 

[NazariteNation]

I don't think OSAS is a catholic doctrine. They believe salvation can be lost.

A large portion of the Catholic church, namely that found in northern Africa adhered to the teachings of Augustine seeing as He was arch bishop (or a title simular) over the territory.

 

[EconGrad]

Now most evangelicals agree with Catholics on the doctrines of "free will", temporary salvation, and works righteousness.

Belief in permanent salvation, God's supreme sovereignty, and righteousness through faith alone, those beliefs separate a Christian from Catholics and most Evangelicals.

 

[Baptistrw]

My point is this... Considering Augustine laid down the foundation for Purgatori, the Perpetual Virgin, and Salvation through Water Baptism... Can you honestly trust OSAS which can indeed be historically traced back to Augustine and no earlier?

The average Catholic never knows whether or not he has done enough good works to merit his salvation; the modern Roman Catholic church does NOT teach eternal security in any form. You can lose your built up grace by committing a mortal sin and not receiving absolution from a priest. That's not eternal security. You have to realize the catholic church wasn't always what it is now. It apostatized over the last 1500 years.

 

[NazariteNation]

The average Catholic never knows whether or not he has done enough good works to merit his salvation; the modern Roman Catholic church does NOT teach eternal security in any form. You can lose your built up grace by committing a mortal sin and not receiving absolution from a priest. That's not eternal security. You have to realize the catholic church wasn't always what it is now. It apostatized over the last 1500 years.

But that's just it Baptist, the teachings of Augustine is largely responsible for that which we now consider to be apostacy in the Catholic church.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The average Catholic never knows whether or not he has done enough good works to merit his salvation; the modern Roman Catholic church does NOT teach eternal security in any form. You can lose your built up grace by committing a mortal sin and not receiving absolution from a priest. That's not eternal security. You have to realize the catholic church wasn't always what it is now. It apostatized over the last 1500 years.

Catholics are a funny one, the ones i've spoken with anyway. On the one hand they believe you can lose salvation if you are exceptionally wicked. On the other hand many catholics believe you don't even have to be a catholic or christian to be saved, "we are all God's children", they say. So on the one hand their views are much stricter than evangelicals - that the smallest sin will send you to purgatory, yet on the other hand they are much more liberal - that even non-christians will be saved.
But while they might believe a person is saved, they might see that salvation as an eventual escape of purgatory in 100,0000 years time for example, provided you have had enough time of torture in purgatory, "barely escaping through the fire". So I wouldn't call it a strict OSAS doctrine really. Not in the Calvinist sense.

Re: Augustine,
I read something somewhere, that the writings of Augustine was the only early church writings that the Reformers (eg Calvin) had to work with at the time. Which led them to mistakenly conclude that the early church believed in OSAS. So a departure from orthodoxy may not have been intentional on Calvin's part. Although Calvin may have got his ideas from Augustine, Augustine is not directly responsible for OSAS, Calvin had to twist Augustines words somewhat in order to create the OSAS doctrine we have today.

 

[roaringkitten]

Catholics believe that works save them in addition to Christ. Like Baptist said, they DO NOT teach eternal security! Of course there are many branches of the Catholic faith...And perhaps one or two of them believe in faith alone to save.....But I have not run into any branches that do teach it.

So to those that do not believe in eternal security in Christ.....If Christ said to you on that day "why should I let you into heaven?" What would your response be?