Rejecting the bad and accepting the good

[MahogonySnail]

It's a common idea amongst fundamentalist evangicals that if a preacher is wrong on one thing they are a false preacher/teacher/prophet and are to be rejected. The internet is filled with websites tearing down a certain preacher because they said something in a book so many years ago that somehow proves they are a false teacher.

But I believe the approach Jesus took was to teach His followers to accept the good and reject the bad that comes from the ruling authorities. In Jesus's time they were the Jewish authorities, in our time they would be like the church authorities over us such as pastors, elders, deacons, bishops, theologians and such.

Here we find Jesus telling his disciples to actuallly obey the pharisees, scribes and teachers of the Law:

Matt 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

But Jesus warned them not to follow their hypocrisy, or their traditions of men which Jesus condemned in various places within the Gospels.

In other words accept the good and reject the bad. Or, follow Christ personally, by following what you know is right from your personal study of the Word and knowledge of Christ, but don't reject spiritual authorities God has put in place in church leadership on the basis of error, but take whatever good and benefit you can from it.

This practice is merely Paul's command to "Test everything. Hold on to the good." 1 Th 5:21 with prophecies, applied to teaching/preaching. Nothing new there but just wanted to bring it to attention.

 

[machew]

Yep. Agreed. There is something my pastor tells us to do. "Every ministry will have good stuff and bad stuff, including ours; what we have to learn how to do is eat the meat and throw out the bones."

 

[carpetmanswife]

right , of course there are false teachers but what we must remember that ministers of the gospel are human too.....mistakes will be made , doesnt necessarily make them false .

 

[loveschild]

Thank God people can repent. Thank God people are praying for God to be the head.

 

[imoss]

If they are consistant in their misinformation I choose to reject them. I would not listen to a Jehovahs witness preach to get the "good" out of the message. This is deceptive and wrong. I also choose not to listen to preachers who make a laughing stock of the Lord & should be ashamed of how they act. Putting sick peoples names in a stack of paper to be read in the Holyland for a donation of any kind to me is unacceptable behavior in the eyes of the Lord. I would not listen to this mans message as I am clouded by my righteous anger at him stealing from the elderly & the sick. No I will not order a blessed shroud for a minumum donation to fund the fuel for the leer. Unfortunately there are those who hero worship these guys and they are being preyed upon in the name of our precious Lord. I will not judge him, thats up to the Lord... I definitely will not listen to him though, good or bad. Garbage in/garbage out is ok until the spirit convicts you that the heart of the preacher is not with the Lord.

 

[carpetmanswife]

If they are consistant in their misinformation I choose to reject them. I would not listen to a Jehovahs witness preach to get the "good" out of the message. This is deceptive and wrong. I also choose not to listen to preachers who make a laughing stock of the Lord & should be ashamed of how they act. Putting sick peoples names in a stack of paper to be read in the Holyland for a donation of any kind to me is unacceptable behavior in the eyes of the Lord. I would not listen to this mans message as I am clouded by my righteous anger at him stealing from the elderly & the sick. No I will not order a blessed shroud for a minumum donation to fund the fuel for the leer. Unfortunately there are those who hero worship these guys and they are being preyed upon in the name of our precious Lord. I will not judge him, thats up to the Lord... I definitely will not listen to him though, good or bad. Garbage in/garbage out is ok until the spirit convicts you that the heart of the preacher is not with the Lord.

i agree.........

 

[machew]

agreed. I wasn't referring to false teachers like Jehovah's witness.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Good post. We do a disservice to ministers and to the body of Christ when we hold up a standard that will only result in failure or hypocrisy.

 

[Brackenzee]

You make a good point. But I also think there need to be limits to how much error we tolerate before we need to just tune a preacher out, as Imoss said.

 

[Harley_Angel]

This was a refreshing post, thank you. I've been batteling the idea of going back to church or not. The only church I could really stand to be in was an Episcopal church, but I don't agree with openly, non-repenting homosexual clergymen, or a few other things the church has. I do however, believe in most of the fundamentals and I love the people in the congregation. I think I should keep going, and reap the good, and reject the bad. Going to a church with gay clergymen doesn't mean I accept homosexuality as an 'okay' thing. Just because there are women preachers, doesn't mean I have to be one of them...but I do believe we can learn something from everyone, whether they are right or wrong, as long as your own brain is the last filter information goes through before you write it on your heart.

 

[imoss]

I prefer my leaders to be blameless or actually try to pursue some degree of righteousness. I would not attend a gay preacher church. I hold the leaders of the clergy to a very high standard as they are our teachers in the faith and if they blatantly do an abomination how are they to preach otherwise? I also would not tolerate a preacher who lives in sin with his girlfriend. I would recommend trying a few different churches, you'd be surprised at the amazing holy spirit filled services that are not just ritual but you FEEL the presence of the Lord. Whe God outlined the law (we are under grace of course) but when he outlined the law, a sinful priest brings "guilt upon the people" and he must offer a bull. The penalty for a member of the community is a female goat. This indicates that God holds them to a higher standard as well. I dont believe in judging them their sin, thats between them and God but they should not be leading people in worship and living in conflict with Gods will.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Harley I went to anglo-catholic for 10 years and still go, no homosexual clergy but you really do have to sift the good from the bad in the teaching.

I would call JW's false teachers. Any pro-homosexual preachers I would call false teachers too, they do not even deserve the title Christian.

Rejecting the bad I don't mean their behaviour or lifestyle if it is contrary to God's Word eg homosexuality, theft, adultery.. but the errors in teaching/doctrine.
Still, the Pharisees were hypocrites yet Jesus told his followers to still obey what they say because they were still preachers of God's Word.

 

[Sharp]

I disagree. I don't believe in sifting. I think a pastor or teacher or leader in a church should be fully up to speed with their doctrine, and if they are not, they should not be put in that position.

If a church leader holds even a bit of bad doctrine, people should leave, and then these churches will die, as they should. The ones with correct doctrine will flourish.

A litle leaven leavens the whole lump.

Ephesians 5:11 "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them".

 

[pickles]

I have always looked to the good in others. But tested to be sure.
When it comes to mistakes or simply one that hasnt fully understood a teaching yet? I try to see them as I believe Jesus sees us all.
Still learning. That is, how it is for all of us.
But if there is one that has been tested, and shown that their motives are very corrupt, who is not of Our Lord Jesus but of evil.
I will walk away unless It is put on my heart to witness and plead.
But if it is just one that has fallen into pride or greed , but just has not been truelly broken, I will wait and see where Jesus leads on this one.
And like you said, accept the good, reject the bad.
God bless, pickles

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Still, the Pharisees were hypocrites yet Jesus told his followers to still obey what they say because they were still preachers of God's Word.

"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" Mt 16:6, 16:11. Mk 8:15. Lk 12:1

'Snail consider what your saying here.

Jesus is the preacher of God's word, in fact He is the Word.

I don't know why you would even say that the Pharisees preached God's Word, when they are to be held accountable for His death.

 

[shad]

I have a couple of comments on this. Let's switch it around for a minute. Let's apply this thread to those that come into the local assembly. Think of all the baggage that gets brought into the assembly. What is the pastor and preacher to do? By what standard is he to hold them by? Does that standard have anything to do with grace and the word of God? Are those that come into the assembly to be blameless like the leadership? If we hold our leaders to a higher standard than we expect of ourselves or others, what kind of standard have we made for ourselves to live by? Does that mean it is alright for us to fail or come short but not the leadership because we hold them to a higher standard? Do we judge ourselves by one standard and them by a greater one?

Those that God called to that position of leadership, knows what is in their heart. They were called by grace and equipped for that position. They will need more grace to be able to fulfill that position because of the greater responsibility that they have toward God and the people. It was not our choice to put them there it was God's. The greater condemnation that they receive will come from the hand of God and not from those that hold them to a higher standard. Those that assume that the leaders are under a higher standard must also recognize that they are under those they hold to that higher standard. Has it ever occur to you that God has you there in the local assembly to give of your supply of grace for the work of the ministry that God has called you to by grace? You are there to build up and edify others, especially the leadership because they need it and God is depending on you to supply it through your portion.

The scriptures teach that we are to esteem them highly who labor in the word and doctrine for their work's sake. We are to obey them that have rule over us and submit to them and what they teach. Every time this is brought up about submission and obedience, people start getting into the negative aspects of, 'Well, what about if this happens or if that happens, then what do I do'. Or they get into this weird kind of thinking and accuse others of giving a free pass to sin. Somehow they put themselves above the possibility that they could sin themselves. I suggest that you get on your knees and intercede for people and obey God without being negative and never forget that God is gracious and longsuffering.

Have you ever considered why the Holy Spirit made sure that we had 1Cor 10:1-14 canonized in the NT scriptures and covenant? The people were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the Sea / verse 2. Why bring that up? What significance does that have for us here as NT believers? Baptized unto a man, Moses? The man who had a zeal for his people and because of his temper he killed that Egyptian and then fled for fear of Pharaoh? Who later married outside his people and it was so disturbing to his sister Miriam and Aaron that they approached him on it and you know what God said and what happened to Mariam. Read it for yourself / Numbers 12.

Moses, a man who stuttered in his speech and wanted his brother Aaron to be his spokesman when confronting Pharaoh? He also disobeyed God by striking the rock twice which was serious enough to keep him out of the promise land? Aaron and Mariam were also leaders and they let the people talk them into constructing and worshiping the golden calf. There are others things that could be said about Moses that are recorded in the scriptures. But this was the man that God chose and he was God's man and became the meekest man on the earth. Do you think that God had chosen Moses or any leader based on moral grounds or according to His righteousness and grace? I'll let you decide.

 

[shad]

I also suggest that you study the message that Stephen preached in Acts 7:20-60 concerning Moses and the people and how the people under Moses were considered to be a 'church' in the wilderness as the ekklesia or called out ones / verse 38 . Well isn't that interesting.

 

[resurrection33]

This practice is merely Paul's command to "Test everything. Hold on to the good." 1 Th 5:21 with prophecies, applied to teaching/preaching.

Should Paul’s teachings be tested?

 

[imoss]

I have no problem with the failure of the leadership in the church, their transgressions are covered by the blood of the lamb. Those who willfully & unrepentantly live an abomination should not be in positions of authority over Gods people as they are teaching people about God while living like Hell. Definitely NOT COOL. I dont question their salvation, I question their right to teach people about the Lord. Let them do ANYTHING else but definitely not teach the word of God. (i'm sure they'd skip a few parts). They are molding the minds of the new to Christ and to try to please God should be a priority for them.

 

[shad]

I have no problem with the failure of the leadership in the church, their transgressions are covered by the blood of the lamb. Those who willfully & unrepentantly live an abomination should not be in positions of authority over Gods people as they are teaching people about God while living like Hell. Definitely NOT COOL. I dont question their salvation, I question their right to teach people about the Lord. Let them do ANYTHING else but definitely not teach the word of God. (i'm sure they'd skip a few parts). They are molding the minds of the new to Christ and to try to please God should be a priority for them.

What does he do with you if you come into his assembly and you are living like hell, that's definitely not cool either. He has to cover you because of love. He does not judge you because Christ paid for your sins. He has to give you grace and believe the best and be patience and longsuffering. He doesn't talk about you behind your back. He prays and intercedes for you and makes an investment in your life by being your friend until God brings conviction in your heart and transforms you. Sometimes that might last over a year before God gets through to you. You know how long most pastors get when they fail, about 5 minutes before everyone is getting a phone call. The next thing you know the elders have to intervene and the Pastor gets his flesh laid wide open. And you know who usually is making the phone calls, women!!! You know why, because they don't know grace and can't keep their mouth shut because their tongue needs to say something even before they know all the details. They don't have a love that covers people when they fail.