When does the rapture occur?

[PlainWord]

Uh,no,I used the word of God to illustrate the wedding dimension YOU remain,by lack of study,ignorant of.



In the left behind parable as you call it,there is a TOTAL ABBSENCE of what YOU need to make the setting postrib.(Jesus even put the buying and selling of believers in there just for postrib frustration)
You have yet another non point.



I don't know about "my bad" but you are clearly unable to answer my verses w/o painting yourself in a corner,so your frustration is noted ('I got on your level' comment). Pure desperation as always when postribs go personal.



That's like saying "the passover feast had nothing to do with illustrating the lamb of God and Jesus as the sacrificial lamb"




Does not surprise me you are championing what we need to leave out ,ie, 90% of the parable.
Why on earth do you take such an impeded position?

Jettison the emotion and answer the verses challenging your position.
I know we get a little rough,but ,to me it is not out of hand or anything.

You haven't found any verses which challenge my position. My frustration isn't over me not being able to answer your questions, it is rather over your inability to grasp any Biblical concept relative to the End Times. You read a piece of scripture then run off with ideas that aren't conveyed. It would be like you reading a phrase that says, "the sky is blue and the grass is green" then when asked what the message being conveyed is you say, "the janitor left early for the day." It's really that bad.

Not trying to get personal with you, unfortunately you are taking my frustration of being unable to communicate with you as a personal attack rather than an inability to communicate with the blind.

The point of the 10 virgin parable is two fold:

1) The wise enter the Kingdom of God and the foolish do not
2) Those prepared who overcome obstacles and remain faithful enter the Kingdom of God, those who are unprepared miss out.

The word, "Tribulation" does not appear at all in the Parable of 10 virgins. The only parable of the 9 where it does appear is in the parable of the sower. In that parable, the Lord makes clear that there will be some who stumble the moment they are subjected to tribulation. Thus, this example does not help your argument.

You read too much into things that aren't there just as your doctrine is a contrived and unfounded theory with absolutely no concrete scriptural support as none of your key tenants are found.

1) No Pre-Trib timing given
2) No taking of living back to heaven
3) No two returns found in any single lesson
4) No concept of a regular saint and tribulation era saint

Why don't you start worrying about not having any of the above to lean on instead of trying to prove deeper meaning which were not intended with the 10 virgins?

 

[PlainWord]

PlainWord, YOU ARE WRONG. The Parable of the Ten Virgins, HAS EVERYTHING to do with Jewish Wedding Customs, and the fact, that WE ARE TO WATCH for the BRIDEGROOM to come starting from the very Moment HE spoke those words. Therefore, HE WILL appear as the Bridegroom BEFORE, HE comes as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords. Where are you going to be when that Shofar Trumpet of GOD blasts and the Archangel SHOUTS, Matthew 25:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'


[video=youtube;0jR20-0sy1Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jR20-0sy1Y[/video]

Some Orthodox Jews still blow the Shofar Trumpets at the start of a Jewish Wedding, though many have changed to a Wedding Style that looks almost identical to a Christian Wedding.

At the bottom is is a link to the BEST explanation of what Jewish Wedding Customs have already been fulfilled by JESUS, and those that HE will fulfill, possibly in the NEAR FUTURE. It is almost exactly identical to how I learned it back in the mid 80's. The Only thing that I would change is the statement: "We, the betrothed (Christ's Church )", should be worded Christ's Assemby, because the word CHURCH is technically Not in the original Greek, it actually said ASSEMBLY. Why is that important? Because the Messiah has been building HIS ASSEMBLY from the beginning starting with Adam. O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are BOTH part of the Bride. Sure the timing of that event is referred to by some as a secret, but Only because HIS Father Alone has the right to determine when the Wedding Chamber is Finished. The EVENT is KNOWN by all who have the spiritual Understanding of the Parable of Ten Virgins.:

Jeremiah 2:2-3 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Israel was holy to the LORD, the firstfruits of his harvest; all who devoured her were held guilty, and disaster overtook them,'" declares the LORD.

Isaiah 61:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Isaiah 62:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee; and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


PlainWord - Please read all of what is on the following link. If for NO other reason, so that you will not continue to post lies (taught to you) about what we actually teach and believe.

End Times | Rapture & Jewish Wedding

...and where in any of the quoted scripture is a pre-trib timing given? Which passage destroys a post-trib wedding? You and Popeye are off the road and out of gas. The janitor has gone home early for the day. . Christ can mirror the Jewish Wedding Traditions all He wants and it still doesn't give you a pre-trib timing.

 

[PlainWord]

you sure do. Through a postrib prism if you think a conquering king on a horse with a million horse army in the midst of a destroyed earth with dead bodies everywhere and the seas and marine life destroyed,and no buying and selling without a mark,which every single hummanoid has in their forhead,is whaat the disciplles witnessed at Jesus ' ascention.

You guys can not embrace that truth for 1 second.
Just leave all that out,and carry on. Thanks for illustating the glaring obvious omissions

Someone should do a study of spiritual symbolism from the OT that John was using to disguise what he really saw. Sometimes John defines his symbolism, sometimes he doesn't and instead takes them from OT prophets such as Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Zechariah.

Here are some examples.

Lampstand = Church
Beasts = Countries/Kingdoms
Harlot = Idol
Harlotry = Worship of False god/religion
Mountain = Religion/doctrine
Lamb = Christ
Sea = multitudes of certain peoples
Star = Spiritual being

I really would like you to take a break from Revelation and go study these symbols because without them, you are as fooled as any Roman was who tried to decipher what John wrote. That was his intention and it worked well and still works well today for those who attempt to literalize a spiritually symbolic book. Trying to say this will love dear friend, but I lack tactfulness.

 

[GaryA]

Jettison the emotion and answer the verses challenging your position.

I would like to see both popeye and VCO try that...


Without making even the smallest reference to "the wedding dimension" or the 10-virgins parable ( or, any parables, for that matter ), give a full explanation of your understanding of the following verses of scripture:


Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Focus only on what this passage of scripture is saying.


What is being depicted in verse 30?

What is being depicted in verse 31?


"I triple-dog dare ya!"

 

[mwc68]

There is no "rapture" until after the 2nd Coming. All of these verses that have been posted to support a rapture before Our Lord returns, are all clearly referring to the Last Day

 

[VCO]

...and where in any of the quoted scripture is a pre-trib timing given? Which passage destroys a post-trib wedding? You and Popeye are off the road and out of gas. The janitor has gone home early for the day. . Christ can mirror the Jewish Wedding Traditions all He wants and it still doesn't give you a pre-trib timing.

The timing is given in the fact that everyone throughout the ENTIRE CHURCH AGE is told to WATCH for the Bridegroom, while NOT mentioning Watching for the KING of Kings coming at the END of the Antichrist's Reign. YOUR theory requires NO ONE TO WATCH, until the Antichrist comes to POWER, which immensely deminishes the meaning of NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR. YOUR theory, cannot be true because you and others like you, expect HIM to come at the END of the Antichrist's reign; which is also the END of the Great TRIBULATION. Christ HIMSELF, causes that all to END, by destroying the Antichrist's forces and casting the one who possessed the Antichrist, into the pit for 1000 years. Only a pre-trib KEEPING WATCH FOR THE BRIDEGROOM, puts INTENSE meaning on that NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR.

Matthew 25:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.


Matthew 24:36-44 (NIV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.
[SUP]44 [/SUP] So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.


The the Son of Man appears to Call Out His Bride before HE comes back as KING of kings to destroy His enemies and RULE the Earth from David's THRONE for a thousand years.

I take your strong opposition to mean you are NOT keeping watch for the BRIDEGROOM then?
So be it.

 

[3Scoreand10]

I like the CAR. Here is the verses, and a commentary on it. You NEED to remember, that in Old Testament Times, Peace Treaties were called Covenants.

Daniel 9:26-27 (HCSB)
After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince {Antichrist} will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed. He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

REMEMBER: Tiberious destoyed the TEMPLE, that is True; BUT HE DID NOT make a firm Covenant (Peace Treaty) with Israel and her Enemies. The verse numbers were NOT in the original Manuscripts, so I removed them to show you how after talking about the END, his thoughts did not change, but it is actually talking about the End Times WARS, and then suddenly one comes along who seems to provide all the answers, bringing about that Seven Year Peace Treaty. How do we know that Parallels the exact number of days that Antichrist will rule?





I know, I differ slightly from MacArthur's understanding, in that I consider the first 3 and 1/2 years as part of the Great Tribulation too, because it is a Totally EVIL, SCHEMING PLOT that is ONLY labeled a Covenant (Peace Treaty). So those two verses (26-27) are talking the Roman Empire both THEN, and in the Time of the END, the Revived Roman Empire (European Union, most likely).

First, you use a corrupt bible translation by so called Bible scholars, and many commentarys by said scholars.
This is about the most corrept translation I have ever read.
The pronoun He refers to the Messiah. He presented Himself to Israel at the end of the 69th week, the beginning of the 70th week as their promised King. Many received Him, but most rejected Him and crucified him in the mist of the 70th week.
The time of God's 70 weeks of dealing with Israel was paused until the coming of the man of sin at which time He will once again deal with Israel for the last 1335 days. Daniel 12
Daniel speaks of 1260 days, 1290 days, and 1335 days when speaking of the time of tribulation.
Daniel, nor John in The Revelation, nor Jesus NEVER speak of a peace treaty of seven years on a seven year tribulation period.
I know you will reject this truth because your BIBLE SCHOLARS reject the truth.
You can believe your scholars , I will believe the WORD of GOD.

 

[PlainWord]

I would like to see both popeye and VCO try that...


Without making even the smallest reference to "the wedding dimension" or the 10-virgins parable ( or, any parables, for that matter ), give a full explanation of your understanding of the following verses of scripture:


Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Focus only on what this passage of scripture is saying.


What is being depicted in verse 30?

What is being depicted in verse 31?


"I triple-dog dare ya!"

LOL Gary. Now that would be something to see.

 

[PlainWord]

The timing is given in the fact that everyone throughout the ENTIRE CHURCH AGE is told to WATCH for the Bridegroom, while NOT mentioning Watching for the KING of Kings coming at the END of the Antichrist's Reign. YOUR theory requires NO ONE TO WATCH, until the Antichrist comes to POWER, which immensely deminishes the meaning of NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR. YOUR theory, cannot be true because you and others like you, expect HIM to come at the END of the Antichrist's reign; which is also the END of the Great TRIBULATION. Christ HIMSELF, causes that all to END, by destroying the Antichrist's forces and casting the one who possessed the Antichrist, into the pit for 1000 years. Only a pre-trib KEEPING WATCH FOR THE BRIDEGROOM, puts INTENSE meaning on that NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR.

We are told to watch for the DAY OF THE LORD, not some Pre-trib secret santa sleigh ride to heaven. I'm going to highlight two specific phrases from the below. Incidentally, this passage immediately follows your so-called pretrib rapture passage of 1 Thes 4:13-17. I know this is going to be impossible for you, but please indulge me and try to pick up the subject matter of Paul's lesson below. It is the DAY OF THE LORD. If I blow it up to the biggest font they have will you be able to see it?

1 Thes 5:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

Were you able to see that we are to watch for the DAY OF THE LORD?? Why do you suppose Paul commands the Thessalonians to watch for the Day of the Lord if they should be all raptured away to heaven by this time? Maybe, just maybe they will actually be here (or their descendants will be) to see the Day of the Lord.

Why is it important to watch for the Post Trib Day of the LORD? Obviously you don't know because you keep questioning the logic of this. Please read on:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

God will be bringing the heat against the Muslim world in particular. His bowls of wrath are poured out in full strength against Babylon and the Islamic world. We are given a command about this in Rev 18, are we not?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

As children of the Light, we are to watch and be sober so that we aren't killed in God's Wrath. We are to watch for the coming of the Lord. We are to know the signs and then as Luke tells us, we are to look up, for our redemption draws near.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Even the passage you quoted from Mat 24:36-44 is about the Second Coming DAY OF THE LORD and not some pre-trib rapture. It follows Mat 24:29-31 does it not??? What happens in this passage?

 

[flob]

No. Jesus confirmed the Old Covenant by virtue of the life He lived and by the "bringing-about" of all of the prophetic things that occured during that time - before, during, and after - His life on earth. ( i.e. - all that the Old Covenant promised concerning His First Coming ... He "brought-about" exactly as it was promised. )

Your response, Gary, only repeats the question:
What do you think Daniel 9:27's firm covenant was?

Erroneous Quote.

How is this erroneous? Which words? Every word? Most words? Which?
Seventy weeks are appointed for your people and for your holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make propitiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore and comprehend: from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of Messiah the Prince will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with street and trench, even in distressful times. And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing; and the people of the prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end of it will be with a flood, and even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator, even until the complete destruction is poured out upon the desolator.

The phrase "in the midst of the week" refers to the week - not the covenant. There is a difference...

Lol. Then, if you see one, please, by all means, when you have time, feel welcome to attempt to identify it.

Of course 'the middle of the week' refers to the week. Lol. To be more precise, 'the middle of the week' refers to the middle of the week. (The middle of 7 is 3 1/2.) These 3 1/2 years are prophesied of course in Revelation (some Christian 'teachers' have sought to teach that Revelation is over also). And also are in the prophecy of the Antichrist in Daniel 7:25.
Daniel chapters 2, 7, 8, 9, and 12, if not 11 also, all abound with unfulfilled prophecy concerning both the 'man of sin' and the Lord's 2nd coming. Which Zechariah and Jesus and Paul and Jude and John all confirm and affirm.
With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you be not quickly shaken in mind nor alarmed, neither by a spirit nor by word or letter...to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you...because it will not come unless...the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God...the lawless one will be revealed (whom the Lord Jesus will slay by the breath of His mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of His coming)----Paul.

I watched and that horn waged war with the saints and prevailed against them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom. Dan 7:21-22.

And against the Prince of princes he will stand up, But he will be broken, yet not by human hands. Dan 8:25

The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.
Rev 11:15.

And at that time Michael, the great prince who stands for the children of your people, will arise, and there will be a time of distress, such as never occurred since there came to be a nation until that time; and at that time your people, every one found written in the book, will be delivered. And many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the ground will awake, some to life eternal and some to reproach, to eternal contempt. Dan 12:1-2.


Since Antichrist's covenant will be made for one week, by extension: the middle of the week is the middle of the covenant. The covenant will be the beginning of the final week. The final seven years of this age. Of course the covenant will not last seven years. Since it will be interrupted, and therefore broken, and cancelled by Antichrist, after 3 1/2 years.
What 7-year covenant ended in AD 70? In AD 30? In AD 33? Who made it? With who? How did they break it? Since, according to you, lol, it's already happened.

Here is a book on Israel's ultimate destiny..........a book on the competition between human government on the earth and God's kingdom...........a book which Jesus quotes in Matthew in regard to the end of this age, and a book which is a big source of Revelation, concerning God's completion of this age and of eternity..............and some-----silly one?----has the temerity and ignorance to interpret it as ending, or Daniel 9:24-27, the heart of the book ending...............with Jesus death or AD 70? That is...........beyond absurd

Israel's history is not finished. { I have not said that it was... Israel "still has a part to play" in the 1000-year reign of Christ.

If you've not noticed, Israel as a nation, as a people, is in unbelief and rejection concerning their Messiah. Who already died for their sins and who is coming again to rule physically and with His saints. They have been since, as a group, they delivered him to the Romans and crucifixion (Dan 9:26) up until the present day. And even though God brought them back to their promised land in 1948, and city in 1967, and's preserving their country until this day. So not only does Israel 'have a part to play in the 1000-year reign of Christ,' but there is the entire matter of...........how precisely they get there. Which is included in Daniel 9, as well as the other chapters in Daniel, and in Zechariah 11--14 and Romans 11 and Revelation.



Maybe it is because of the silliness of the Dan-9:24,-27-is-over thought, its untenability, that those who suggest it have no affirmative explanations of the Bible....maybe that is the reason. But I will try asking anyway:
What and When is the Lord Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:15-34? Especially verse 15.
Any guesses?

 

[popeye]

I would like to see both popeye and VCO try that...


Without making even the smallest reference to "the wedding dimension" or the 10-virgins parable ( or, any parables, for that matter ), give a full explanation of your understanding of the following verses of scripture:


Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Focus only on what this passage of scripture is saying.


What is being depicted in verse 30?

What is being depicted in verse 31?


"I triple-dog dare ya!"

That is the postrib return. Nothing new. We agree on that. jesus returns postrib.

Next

 

[popeye]

We are told to watch for the DAY OF THE LORD, not some Pre-trib secret santa sleigh ride to heaven. I'm going to highlight two specific phrases from the below. Incidentally, this passage immediately follows your so-called pretrib rapture passage of 1 Thes 4:13-17. I know this is going to be impossible for you, but please indulge me and try to pick up the subject matter of Paul's lesson below. It is the DAY OF THE LORD. If I blow it up to the biggest font they have will you be able to see it?

1 Thes 5:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

Were you able to see that we are to watch for the DAY OF THE LORD?? Why do you suppose Paul commands the Thessalonians to watch for the Day of the Lord if they should be all raptured away to heaven by this time? Maybe, just maybe they will actually be here (or their descendants will be) to see the Day of the Lord.

Why is it important to watch for the Post Trib Day of the LORD? Obviously you don't know because you keep questioning the logic of this. Please read on:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

God will be bringing the heat against the Muslim world in particular. His bowls of wrath are poured out in full strength against Babylon and the Islamic world. We are given a command about this in Rev 18, are we not?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

As children of the Light, we are to watch and be sober so that we aren't killed in God's Wrath. We are to watch for the coming of the Lord. We are to know the signs and then as Luke tells us, we are to look up, for our redemption draws near.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Even the passage you quoted from Mat 24:36-44 is about the Second Coming DAY OF THE LORD and not some pre-trib rapture. It follows Mat 24:29-31 does it not??? What happens in this passage?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.

peace in the wrath being poured out? Millions of bodies everywhere? peace? SAFETY?

Wow you need to take another look at the non peace,non safety of the gt.

(the confusion will not relent in your camp while ramming and cramming 2 events into one.)

Think about it,you are depicting peace and safety during the wrath of God!!!!!

 

[popeye]

Someone should do a study of spiritual symbolism from the OT that John was using to disguise what he really saw. Sometimes John defines his symbolism, sometimes he doesn't and instead takes them from OT prophets such as Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Zechariah.

Here are some examples.

Lampstand = Church
Beasts = Countries/Kingdoms
Harlot = Idol
Harlotry = Worship of False god/religion
Mountain = Religion/doctrine
Lamb = Christ
Sea = multitudes of certain peoples
Star = Spiritual being

I really would like you to take a break from Revelation and go study these symbols because without them, you are as fooled as any Roman was who tried to decipher what John wrote. That was his intention and it worked well and still works well today for those who attempt to literalize a spiritually symbolic book. Trying to say this will love dear friend, but I lack tactfulness.

The difference between us,is, I invite you or any postrib to convince me,using the word,that you have a viable position. You havee not,and are at a huge handicap in thaat I use ALL THE WORD. You do not.

In fact,point me to any postrib teaching that incorrporates the pretrib verses. Not a slam to explin them away,or jettison,but an actual teacing/presentationn where ANY POSTRIB EXAMINES THEM..

They absolutely do not and neither do you. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

 

[popeye]

There is no "rapture" until after the 2nd Coming. All of these verses that have been posted to support a rapture before Our Lord returns, are all clearly referring to the Last Day

All believers are killed by the AC DURING the gt.

Therefore postrib RAPTURE is impossible.

 

[popeye]

Ok,I am going to have to require all postribs to re read the wrath part of the GT.

It appears you guys can not discern between life as usual and pple cring out in torment to die.

Stop transposing the 2 into one. Get a basic handle on this concept,then get back to us.

 

[Called4Christ]

( I keep trying to read this thread from the beginning, but you guys keep adding new pages! *amused* Not that there's anything wrong with that. At this rate, though, I'll never catch up to the discussion! I did want you all to know though that I do enjoy reading your contributions to the discussion and that I have benefited from your biblical research Thank you all. )

 

[popeye]

( I keep trying to read this thread from the beginning, but you guys keep adding new pages! *amused* Not that there's anything wrong with that. At this rate, though, I'll never catch up to the discussion! I did want you all to know though that I do enjoy reading your contributions to the discussion and that I have benefited from your biblical research Thank you all. )

blessings my friend

 

[GaryA]

That is the postrib return. Nothing new. We agree on that. jesus returns postrib.

Next

"I just knew you couldn't do it..."

Second chance?:

What is being depicted in verse 30?

What is being depicted in verse 31?

 

[GaryA]

( I keep trying to read this thread from the beginning, but you guys keep adding new pages! *amused* Not that there's anything wrong with that. At this rate, though, I'll never catch up to the discussion! I did want you all to know though that I do enjoy reading your contributions to the discussion and that I have benefited from your biblical research Thank you all. )

It doesn't take that long to write a post that says:

"I'm right. You're wrong!"




( Yes, this is a joke. If we don't interject a little humor on occasion, I'm afraid the thread will self-destruct...? )

 

[FancyNancy]

It doesn't take that long to write a post that says:

"I'm right. You're wrong!"




( Yes, this is a joke. If we don't interject a little humor on occasion, I'm afraid the thread will self-destruct...? )

All of the above happens post-trib. We, the Church are not here, then.

Both those verses depict the second coming of Christ to Earth. On that DAY, a full day, as all people remaining on this sphere of a planet will see Him arriving, He will be accompanied by the saints, the Church, the Bride---we will be with Him, having undergone the nuptials, and riding with our Bridegroom, ready to settle into our role as wife, ruling and reigning with Him. We will have already been with Him, experienced the Judgment Seat of Christ (The Bema Seat---you can research that) and will have received our crowns and rewards and assignments for duty, not to mention our new physical bodies we will need to rule and reign with Jesus on Earth!